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  1. #1
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    Speculation: Sam's vision and the Apocalypse = Ultimate God Weapon?

    So after two incredible episodes this season I have a new theory. And it really is a doosey. It is what I would do if I were writing this show.

    God's vision to Sam is telling him he needs to go to hell. That certainly looked like hell to me? Anyone else agree?

    Why would he need to go back to hell? To restart the Apocalypse. The Apocalypse is the ultimate weapon to defeat The Darkness. It's the ULTIMATE GOD WEAPON.

    In the lore there in the beginning just like in Revelation there was a War in Heaven. Michael and his angels fought "The Dragon" which in this case I believe is "The Darkness". I contend that this war was the war that Death spoke of when he told Dean of the Darkness. This war also led to Lucifer's fall and as this would relate to Supernatural in the way of him becoming corrupted. And then man is created.

    The apocalypse just like most of EVERYTHING in this show as it relates to the lore was misinterpreted by the angels. They and MAN believed it was prophecy. But it was actually a safety mechanism for The Darkness. If it was ever to be let out again. God decided that he would put this one out in the open. I assume he may have even known what his Angels were up to and ensured that Man would inherit paradise either way.

    Lucifer became corrupted and created demons and thirsted for the power that was said to be his in the end. Michael likewise. Without God around why the hell not? They just didn't realize it was a tool and not a prophecy.

    If I were writing this show this is how I would do it. Does this mean that the brother's must switch vessels? Not necessarily. I would do it for the sake of damn good irony. Aside from that it doesn't really matter. However, this is the one way I could see the boys willingly sacrifice themselves ala "The End". I still think it's in play. Afterall, the Darkness swallows souls. She will eventually go after heaven AND hell. This is far bigger than just EARTH now. They need to save it all.

    It's time to bring this show full circle. I don't think we can honestly say at this point we aren't coming in for a landing even if they do decided to stretch this show out until 2020. I think this has been the long game.

    Thoughts are welcomed.
    Last edited by waynedeath1047; 10-14-2015 at 09:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular taftvalue's Avatar
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    stop reading my mind, will you

    that episode today was great, I hope it will be something along these lines
    Last edited by taftvalue; 10-14-2015 at 09:40 PM.

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    We always have seen eye to eye oddly tafty ol chum.

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    I agree that it was most certainly hell in his vision given how it was pretty much the exact same thing we saw when Dean was stuck in hell.

    Your theory is one that would certainly make for a very interesting story line I just don't see it happening as it would require the writers to take a completely different view on how we perceive everything and through the entire series they have never really done that so it would seem like an odd time for them to do it (Though it would be a great way to end the series).

    Personally when I saw that vision my mind just went to Lucifer and Michael and I was thinking it was God showing Sam what it was like when Lucifer was possessing him. We never got to see what it was like, we only saw the aftermath of it and given that Hell was his domain I can only imagine that's what would have been going on in Sam's head. So with that said I straight away thought that it was a sign to imply that the cage needed to be opened in, it's cryptic enough to be something that God would do and potentially sets the path for Sam (and maybe Dean) for a while.

  5. #5
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    I also immediately thought of it being a memory of Sam's time in the Cage. Sam wasn't just sitting around with the two boys waiting for rescue....he was Lucifer's "bunk buddy." This could also somewhat explain Sam's hallucinations of Lucifer of two seasons ago (2?) that it was actually Lucifer being able to communicate to Sam via some kind of Supernatural veil, and not just him losing his mind.

    I am praying! that we get Lucifer back to this show....

    And Crowley and Amara? No good can come from that. While on one hand Crowley is still helping Sam and Dean, on the other hand he stated quite clearly that he was no longer a "sidekick." My guess is that he is going to use Amara to totally seal his place as the ruler of Hell...and Heaven...and Earth. Totally Crowley to want this....

    I love the idea, Wayne....I also see this as the series-ending arc whether it end this season or 10 years from now. Love what we have gotten so far....

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    I also kind of wonder if Deans life force is somehow connected to the life force of Amara and The Darkness. She did say she would never kill Dean and he would never kill her. It would fit with my theory if Lucifer was in the same way bound to her.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular Axalon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynedeath1047 View Post
    So after two incredible episodes this season I have a new theory. And it really is a doosey. It is what I would do if I were writing this show.

    God's vision to Sam is telling him he needs to go to hell. That certainly looked like hell to me? Anyone else agree?

    Why would he need to go back to hell? To restart the Apocalypse. The Apocalypse is the ultimate weapon to defeat The Darkness. It's the ULTIMATE GOD WEAPON.

    In the lore there in the beginning just like in Revelation there was a War in Heaven. Michael and his angels fought "The Dragon" which in this case I believe is "The Darkness". I contend that this war was the war that Death spoke of when he told Dean of the Darkness. This war also led to Lucifer's fall and as this would relate to Supernatural in the way of him becoming corrupted. And then man is created.

    The apocalypse just like most of EVERYTHING in this show as it relates to the lore was misinterpreted by the angels. They and MAN believed it was prophecy. But it was actually a safety mechanism for The Darkness. If it was ever to be let out again. God decided that he would put this one out in the open. I assume he may have even known what his Angels were up to and ensured that Man would inherit paradise either way.

    Lucifer became corrupted and created demons and thirsted for the power that was said to be his in the end. Michael likewise. Without God around why the hell not? They just didn't realize it was a tool and not a prophecy.

    If I were writing this show this is how I would do it. Does this mean that the brother's must switch vessels? Not necessarily. I would do it for the sake of damn good irony. Aside from that it doesn't really matter. However, this is the one way I could see the boys willingly sacrifice themselves ala "The End". I still think it's in play. Afterall, the Darkness swallows souls. She will eventually go after heaven AND hell. This is far bigger than just EARTH now. They need to save it all.

    It's time to bring this show full circle. I don't think we can honestly say at this point we aren't coming in for a landing even if they do decided to stretch this show out until 2020. I think this has been the long game.

    Thoughts are welcomed.
    Interesting theory Wayne, I'm not sure I fully understand how it works though. If the apocalypse were to happen, the result would be Michael and Lucifer fighting each other and most likely one or both of them dying. However at the time, Cain had the mark, and he wouldn't necessarily die from their fight since he was hidden, so the Darkness would remain in check.

    However, now with the Darkness released, how would Sam and Dean killing each other result in The Darkness being locked away again? Please explain =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Interesting theory Wayne, I'm not sure I fully understand how it works though. If the apocalypse were to happen, the result would be Michael and Lucifer fighting each other and most likely one or both of them dying. However at the time, Cain had the mark, and he wouldn't necessarily die from their fight since he was hidden, so the Darkness wuld remain in checkion

    However, now with the Darkness released, how would Sam and Dean killing each other result in The Darkness being locked away again? Please explain =
    l

    I don't think this ends with the Darkness being put back. I think this ends with the Darkness completely being destroyed with the nuclear option of the sheer force of power the Apocalypse would render.

    What I am saying about the Apocalypse is it was completely misunderstood. Just like the tablets it is a series of steps. Not a prophecy. They would always have had to kill Lucifer in order to stop the Darkness once and for all. Perhaps God instead of destroying it in the first play granted it Mercy by storing it within Lucifer. The demons saidei it sounded like a wounded animal. If the Darkness was ripped from Lucifer what would that sound like?

    The Angels decided the apocalypse was their way out of having to protect humans. The Darkness being locked away is irrelevant. However what they failed to take into account is this "prophecy" which results in humankind inheriting paradise was ultimately a tool much like Lucifer and Michael and the rest of the angels are to protect humans. If you remember they lost that notion somewhere along the way after God left. I just dont see anything low key like a say what they used on Dick Roman being the answer. They promised tension would be ratcheted up this season along with characters from the past coming back. All the pieces are in place IN my opinion to restart the apocalypse from the beginning with perhaps Sam being the one who starts it this time.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular sino8r's Avatar
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    Wasn't Sam's vision of myself burning in hell just God's way of saying... That's how you purified yourself before (basically making up for the demon blood etc.) and maybe you should try something similar... Like holy fire? The theory is interesting for sure but you guys over think this stuff sometimes! I really doubt Lucifer & Michael are getting out but if we don't see them even just a glimpse of the cage, a visit by the boys, or something... I'm gonna be extremely disappointed. Now that Crowley is all buddies with the darkness it's gonna be difficult to get to the cage. And if we get screwed again with some bs from Metatron (I do like Booger and all but don't really care for his character on Supernatural anymore) it's gonna really suck! Last time they had the PERFECT opportunity for us to visit the cage but nothing! This season and the next really does have potential though! Don't get me wrong here... I just hope they don't screw it up like the last season... That was a giant clusterf*ck lol!
    Last edited by sino8r; 10-15-2015 at 10:32 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sino8r View Post
    Wasn't Sam's vision of myself burning in hell just God's way of saying... That's how you purified yourself before (basically making up for the demon blood etc.) and maybe you should try something similar... Like holy fire? The theory is interesting for sure but you guys over think this stuff sometimes! I really doubt Lucifer & Michael are getting out but if we don't see them even just a glimpse of the cage, a visit by the boys, or something... I'm gonna be extremely disappointed. Now that Crowley is all buddies with the darkness it's gonna be difficult to get to the cage. And if we get screwed again with some bs from Metatron (I do like Booger and all but don't really care for his character on Supernatural anymore) it's gonna really suck! Last time they had the PERFECT opportunity for us to visit the cage but nothing! This season and the next really does have potential though! Don't get me wrong here... I just hope they don't screw it up like the last season... That was a giant clusterf*ck lol!
    Yes, it was clear Sam having that vision was God's way of giving him the cure to the zombiedarkness disease. I do think they'll open the cage to let Luci and Michael out. I don't however think the darkness was sealed within Lucifer or the cage. But who knows. They could've just screamed bc they are Archangels and just have that knowing. AND... when Billie the reaper told Sam she hopes its her that throws them into the void when they die... "and nothing comes back from that" that to me was her helping him!! Would make sense that the Darkness would be thrown into the void by God, the brothers, the Angels and whatever/whoever else wants to help.

    Still think Sam and Dean either sacrifice themselves or just end up passing away when this is all said and done for sure. I think we'll see Luci, Michael, John, Gabriel, maybe even Samuel Campbell. I'm confident well see a lot of return of characters. They have a lot to wrap up though. Metatron has a demon tablet, Rowena has that book. I mean that's a lot of firepower alone, and hopefully that isn't wasted and not utilized in an interesting way.
    Last edited by demosthenes; 10-15-2015 at 11:37 PM.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular taftvalue's Avatar
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    you know that place the reaper was talking about sounds like the place dead demons/angels go :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by taftvalue View Post
    you know that place the reaper was talking about sounds like the place dead demons/angels go :P
    She said something along the lines of going to nothingness (can't remember the exact words), so I wouldn't really say it's where angels and demons go really. It's more like they just get flung out into the universe, though that's also presuming that Angel's and Demon's have something they can become after dying.

  13. #13
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    I can totally see an alternate Purgatory-ish place for dead demons and angels. It just make sense....my guess is that Metatron was totally aware of the Darkness and there is something on the demon tablet leading them to the way to put the Darkness back in the mark.

    There is still the rabbit hole in Purgatory....

    And do we know more about Sam's imaginary friend yet? I can totally see it as Lucifer....

  14. #14
    Forum Regular taftvalue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipzo View Post
    She said something along the lines of going to nothingness (can't remember the exact words), so I wouldn't really say it's where angels and demons go really. It's more like they just get flung out into the universe, though that's also presuming that Angel's and Demon's have something they can become after dying.
    the thing is demons are just corrupt souls, about that the show has been very consistent and clear

    and the soul is said to be indestructible (well maybe Amara can destroy them..)

    so naturally demons should go somewhere and this sounds like the place..

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by taftvalue View Post
    the thing is demons are just corrupt souls, about that the show has been very consistent and clear

    and the soul is said to be indestructible (well maybe Amara can destroy them..)

    so naturally demons should go somewhere and this sounds like the place..
    I always thought dead demons go to the same place that all "fangs" go were they die, purgatory.

    But then, I suppose it's up to the writers in the end how they classify all of these guys. They could treat demons and the rest of the monsters as two separate things.

    I'm intrigued about a concept for an angelic afterlife though. Hopefully the writers come up with something good for this before the series ends.

    Edit: Yeah, amara can destroy them. Or at the very least, consume them. That may be considered as different from outright destruction because consuming means a slower, somewhat of a power draining, process. That's how she turned the lady cop into a killing machine after Amara "ate" her soul.
    Last edited by TyrantLord; 10-16-2015 at 03:49 PM.

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