Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "The Candidate?"

[Shelby Kent]

Exactly!

... and thus concludes our discussion

[BkWurm1]

Taking the question of whether Laurel is being dumbed down or not to the Laurel Thread over in Characters.

[President_Luthor]

Yes, Ollie does seem to be quipping more. No doubt he picked it up in during his suburbia exile when they hosted couples wine-and-cheese nights after Pilates. It doesn't bug me -- yet -- and in the context of Ollie wanting to be something more than a shell of a man/hero, I can understand why they'd want Ollie to seem "lighter" in tone.

They do need to be careful not to overplay this hand. His days as a brooding lone wolf killing people off a hit list are behind him, esp. on this network. It's a delicate balance that could just as easily slip into not seeming natural to the audience, but forced or even cheesy/campy if they're not cautious. Everything in moderation would be the wise approach re: Ollie demonstrating a sense of humour. The man still has baggage (which the S4 flashbacks I'm hoping will remind us about), so fans shouldn't be too worried that Ollie will become ... too "sunny" ... in disposition.

The flashbacks by necessity are going to be the counter-balance to happier, quippy Ollie -- Flashback Ollie pushing around those opium harvesters is one early reminder that Arrow is not heading into Flash territory tone-wise. Maybe some fans might want Arrow to be more like the Flash series in tone(?), but I'm not one of them. The tone that works on Flash just wouldn't fly on Arrow -- and I think S1 ensured that this is the case. Arrow (the show) is still going to have that shades-of-grey edge born out of S1. He may end up a more optimistic hero, but with a bit of a dark cloud hovering around him. No amount of workplace PDAs or omelettes is going to erase this. Nor should it.

Ollie wanting to be mayor to do something hopeful (and in public as Oliver Queen aka without a mask) is completely in line with Ollie forging his own identity as someone not bound to his faceless vigilante persona.

I will reserve judgment on how 'taking Sara to the Pit' subplot fits into S4 until I've seen more. I do have concerns this will be one of the backdoor LOT story arcs wedged into Arrow ... basically to get Sara resurrected in time for the LOT launch.

Again, we don't know how it will all pan out yet, but it would be unfortunate if it turns out Laurel, Thea and others are relegated to guest stars in S4 (on their own show no less) just so LOT can have their ducks lined up in time. With the price being that Arrow's own characters get short shrift in S4 re: character development. Rushed/poorly planned writing would be the usual suspect if this LOT-driven subplot doesn't mesh well with Arrow's S4 plots.

[Quark]

I feel the showrunners desire to have lighter tone is creating a situation where the writing and acting is trying force lighter moments versus letting them happen organically. Because of that, some moments felt flat for me.

Yeah and they are probably doing that to juxtapose the flashbacks which I'm pretty sure are thought to be darker. Interestingly enough though only Oliver is getting "lighter" and it just isn't working very well.

I think more characters need to head into the "light" to make it work more. Thea, Diggle and, to an extent, Quentin seem to be heading down a dark path and there hasn't been much change in Felicity and Laurel. Although Felicity has always been a lighter part of the show. Except when she is crying her eyes out.


On another note, I am looking forward to the flashbacks this year. Jimmy Akingbola was on Holby City and was superb.

[Caught_In_The_Sun]

10!

Arrow feels back on track to me with this EP. Sara! Loved seeing Jeri Ryan, is this the only one?

[Shelby Kent]

No doubt he picked it up in during his suburbia exile when they hosted couples wine-and-cheese nights after Pilates.

Eeuw.....now why'd you have to go and say that???..........it's bad enough I had to watch a bunch of real Olicity scenes, but now I'm also stuck with imagining Oliver in his yoga pants (calf-length, flared) in Pilates class with Felicity while they make goo eyes at each other ..... I just *bangs head against wall* cannot *bangs head against wall* take it anymore! *bangs head against wall*


............ ( )

[BkWurm1]

Eeuw.....now why'd you have to go and say that???..........it's bad enough I had to watch a bunch of real Olicity scenes, but now I'm also stuck with imagining Oliver in his yoga pants (calf-length, flared) in Pilates class with Felicity while they make goo eyes at each other ..... I just *bangs head against wall* cannot *bangs head against wall* take it anymore! *bangs head against wall*


............ ( )

Thanks for the mental picture. Made me smile.

[Shelby Kent]

Thanks for the mental picture. Made me smile.

And I assume, as the Olicity fan you are as well as the kind person that I'm sure you are, your smile was due to thoughts of Olicity and not thoughts of my pain and misery?

A few brief comments about Felicity/Olicity

1. BkWurm1: I am genuinely happy for your Olicity-fueled happiness. I do remember watching shows where romantic elements were included and done well (ie done the way I wanted them ) it did add a lot to my enjoyment. I also find it hard to believe that they would take Olicity away any time soon (or ever), though Olicity fans may not see end-game (? engagement) any time soon (or maybe for whole series). But that shouldn't mean they don't have lots of nice Olicity moments to look forward to. Since the goal is a lighter Arrow, I just think breaking up Olicity would be counter-productive. They have plenty of other storylines now with potential for drama and melodrama.....

2. One nice thing I can say about Felicity: I did like her first-day-to-work outfit. Big improvement over that boob-window dress she wore in her appearance before the board in S3 ep. Can't say she doesn't learn from her experiences.....

3. Felicity's code name - given that Felicity is very intelligent, that she has identified the lack of a code name as a problem, and that she is at the very least an equal partner on the team, why does Felicity think she needs Oliver to give her her code name? It should be a priority issue. She doesn't need to wait on Oliver or anyone else. She can come up with her own code name and then tell the others. Done deal. And if they don't like it, then right there and then she can say, "okay, then pick something else now." She's a CEO --- passively waiting for Oliver to give her a name is not CEO behavior...

[Carmine-Infantino]

Wait, are you saying her code name is CEO??? I thought for sure she would go with The Fern, as souffle girl is taken.

[Shelby Kent]

Wait, are you saying her code name is CEO??? I thought for sure she would go with The Fern, as souffle girl is taken.

[dreamsofnever]

I thought this was a pretty solid episode, actually. And I could be wrong, but it seemed like there was a theme throughout the episodes of consequences. We had Oliver seeing the consequences of deserting his sister and his city and facing up to them and trying to make things right by coming clean with Thea and wanting to run for mayor. And while the idea of Oliver running for mayor is a little ridiculous, I'll roll with it because they made such a big deal out of the fact that literally no one else wanted the job. I remember reading a news story about a teenage girl who became mayor of her town in Mexico because she was the only person brave enough to want to risk being in charge due to the issues with organized crime in that area. Now whether or not Oliver actually devotes himself to the job and does right by his city is the question, but I like that he's actually starting to think about other ways that he can help the city.

And while I still dislike the idea of Felicity as CEO, I liked that she finally got to see the consequences of going on a world tour and then buying a house elsewhere (presumably with her CEO salary from Palmer Tech) and basically refusing to let the board appoint anyone else as CEO. She saw that when a CEO of a multi-billion dollar company doesn't do her job, people will lose their livelihoods. And while her plan to fix the company's money issues is a little sketchy at this point, I did admire that she saw the consequences of her actions and tried to do something to repair the damage she'd done.

We got a little hint at Diggle seeing consequences down the road with Laurel telling him that keeping the secret about his investigation into HIVE will likely go badly for him.

And of course, the episode ended with Laurel and Thea digging up Sara's grave in an act that will CERTAINLY have consequences.

Obviously, there's been a lot of debate on that point and how it reflects on Laurel's character. And while I don't think it's the 'right' thing to do in this situation, I think that it's a very human emotion to want your sister back. And I don't think it's fully 'selfish' either, because I think what hurt Laurel the most after Sara's death was the idea that her sister's life was cut short and that Sara was cheated out of a long, full life.

I'm a little disappointed that Jessica Danforth seems to be a one episode character, but maybe she'll show up in future episodes and help Oliver out with his campaign or something? At the very least, I liked seeing Thea have a friend outside Team Arrow.

And while I completely agree that both Felicity and John need a codename, I also agree with JDBentz that rather than whine about wanting one, Felicity needs to just choose one for herself. Here's hoping that we will see them both get codenames by the end of the season, so long as Felicity isn't called Oracle.

[BkWurm1]

And I assume, as the Olicity fan you are as well as the kind person that I'm sure you are, your smile was due to thoughts of Olicity and not thoughts of my pain and misery?

My comment was in regards to the mental imagery you created but there might have been a snort or a snicker at your self inflicted pain.


A few brief comments about Felicity/Olicity

3. Felicity's code name - given that Felicity is very intelligent, that she has identified the lack of a code name as a problem, and that she is at the very least an equal partner on the team, why does Felicity think she needs Oliver to give her her code name? It should be a priority issue. She doesn't need to wait on Oliver or anyone else. She can come up with her own code name and then tell the others. Done deal. And if they don't like it, then right there and then she can say, "okay, then pick something else now." She's a CEO --- passively waiting for Oliver to give her a name is not CEO behavior...

I think she's looking at it like a nickname. Nobody gets to pick their nickname, it's given to you. And Thea will attest that telling the team what to call her just doesn't work.

[Shelby Kent]

Nobody gets to pick their nickname, it's given to you.

Well considering what Diggle picked for his mask/helmet, he probably shouldn't be allowed to pick his own nickname/codename, that's for sure...

And Thea will attest that telling the team what to call her just doesn't work.

Poor Thea! that was a funny moment...

[President_Luthor]

Yeah, poor Thea. No say in it. Speedy doesn't exactly instill fear in the hearts of SC's many, many villains. Not to mention confuse the hell out of Flash-centric foes who might think she's a speedster too.

Diggle was the man without a mask til this season, now he's the man without a nickname.

"Ollie: Work with me here, Diggle. We've gotta give you a nickname.

Diggle: Hmm, I think it should go something like this: 'Oh hey it's the Green Arrow and ... that guy who looks like he's wearing a loaner helmet from Magneto'

Ollie: Well ...

Diggle: Or how about: 'Hey it's the Green Arrow's sidekick, that guy who's wearing a big spaghetti pot on his head. Or, just Diggle -- since the world has seen me around you without a mask for the past three years ... (Diggle storms off)

Ollie (Sheds a single manly tear. Yes, manly -- because even one tear could climb the salmon ladder 5x on its own, no problem): I crafted the helmet by hand. Poured my heart into it. Well, okay, "sorta" put my heart into it. I was baking gourmet cupcakes and running down to the workshop to make it while they were in the oven. And I think I had a spin class that day too."

[cosmicbimbo]

Maybe they will get nicknames during the Flarrow episode. Cisco likes to give nicknames.