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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "The Candidate?"

    What did you think?

  2. #2
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure the Olicity fans loved the fern scene, I found it cringe worthy, the rest of the episode was really good. I thought speedy was terrific.

  3. #3
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    Oliver and Thea's relationship and partnership is like Batman and Robin in a dysfunctional way. I like that they're setting up for the next episode. Dinah Laurel didn't know what happened to Thea last year so it makes sense for them to make it up for her when she did her own resurrection that mirrors last season's.

  4. #4
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    I thought the episode was probably the best in a long time. I've come to accept the fact that Olicity will be a part of the show for a fair while so I don't even bother to get phased by that as they aren't shoving it down our face massively anymore, it's only mentioned on a regular base which I can live with.

  5. #5
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vantheman77 View Post
    Oliver and Thea's relationship and partnership is like Batman and Robin in a dysfunctional way.
    Even moreso like Batman and Damian-Robin, as there's a Lazarus Pit involved there somewhere too, isn't there?

    I loved the episode. Great action, I'd love to have Felicity as my boss... but I'm still taking away a point for the stupid fern. I feel like bringing in the fern is a fanservice that just regurgitates fandom arguments and is all around unnecessary.

  6. #6
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    I thought it was a decent follow up to last week's. The show's annoying aspects aren't going away, but you come to expect them at this point.

    The good:
    - Neal McDonough. Again.
    - Addressing the Pit's side effects.
    - Ollie for Mayor!
    - The newcomers. Danforth was a decent character and Jeri Ryan was gorgeous as always (pity she's only in one episode ). Anarky grew on me as the episode went on. As did Curtis Holt. The most impressive for me was Reiter. He was only in one scene but he commanded it fairly well. I do have a bone to pick with the blatant tweaks they made to the Mr Terrific and Baron characters, but that's another story for another time.
    - The ending. I know people had an issue with Arrow showing us Sara in that state, but it needed to happen, imo. It's not like they could take the coffin with Sara inside and throw it in the Pit. Fantastic acting by Katie Cassidy in that scene.

    The not so good:
    - Back to the secrets and lies. Laurel going off to Nanda Parbat without Oliver knowing? Ugh.
    - Anarky beats down Oliver, but Thea takes him down with ease. Seriously?
    - Olicity bored me with the exception of the scene where Oliver tells Felicity that coming back wouldn't be easy. It was probably one of the rare times where seeing them as a couple worked for me. The fern scene was gag worthy.
    - Felicity as the CEO went about as bad as I thought it would. Besides the obvious objection (why would anyone accept a 25 year old IT girl as CEO in the first place), the whole thing just feels a forced attempt to prop the character even more. As if they haven't done that enough already.
    - Oliver's flashback hair. I know it's an odd one, but I liked him with the wig. It was a good way of differentiating present Ollie and flashback Ollie in terms of hardships and character.

    7/10.
    Last edited by costas22; 10-15-2015 at 01:47 AM.

  7. #7
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSiteTV View Post
    Even moreso like Batman and Damian-Robin, as there's a Lazarus Pit involved there somewhere too, isn't there?

    I loved the episode. Great action, I'd love to have Felicity as my boss... but I'm still taking away a point for the stupid fern. I feel like bringing in the fern is a fanservice that just regurgitates fandom arguments and is all around unnecessary.
    Excuse me, it's called FERN-service.

    Really though it's such a small moment and yes, it's fan service but no worse than a boxing glove arrow or switching out the practical hand held sonic device for a necklace called a Canary Cry that actually seems to require it's user to stop and stand still (and open their mouth like a gaping baby bird) to activate.

    It's all a shout out to the fans. I prefer small things like those than something that derails the story being told.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 10-15-2015 at 03:04 AM.

  8. #8
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    The ending. I know people had an issue with Arrow showing us Sara in that state, but it needed to happen, imo. It's not like they could take the coffin with Sara inside and throw it in the Pit. Fantastic acting by Katie Cassidy in that scene.
    Why would carrying her body in a box be more difficult than carrying her body in a....how do you think they'd carry her body? Leaving a corpse in a coffin would be way easier to transport on a commercial flight or a private one than say a body rolled up in a carpet. She's too big for a duffle bag (and at this point there is a smell to worry over) and she isn't fresh faced enough for pulling a Weekend at Bernies. Why not transport the box and then lower the body?
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 10-15-2015 at 03:07 AM.

  9. #9
    Posting Pro SuperSheltie's Avatar
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    I actually thought that she wouldn't be in the coffin...that somehow she had already been taken to the Pit by Malcolm possibly. Perhaps showing her dead and decaying was the writers' way of telling us that, no, she was really really dead. Laurel could then close up the coffin and transport her to Nanda.

    Cool creature work on the body though....

  10. #10
    Super Moderator savingpeoplething's Avatar
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    When I fast-forward through Olicity and Felicity scenes, Arrow is a pretty good show.

    Loved the Laurel/Dig scene, the Laurel/Thea moments, the Thea/Oliver sibling moments, and have been very drawn to Damien Darhk so far. Also? That stunt with Black Canary gliding on the zipline shot by Green Arrow? That was tight.

    Not crazy about Sara being resurrected because I think it destroys some of Laurel's motivation to become Black Canary and it's just sloppy writing not to make a death count, but I'll go with it because at least, it means more Nyssa and good stuff for Laurel.

    Gave this episode a 9.

  11. #11
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    It was a pretty good episode overall. I'm glad we have a villain who isn't entangled by things like scruples or CW melodrama (S3 second-half Ra's?). I'm still wondering how is it that Quentin is so entrenched in Damien's business, but after four seasons threatening family members as leverage is almost expected.

    Another thing that is to be expected is secrets and lies. They all do it, they all are guilty of it. I mean I don't like it -- but it'll exist on this show. It's a CW thing. Laurel and Thea is an uncommon team-up so it'll be interesting to see what comes of it, though at the moment Laurel's got to have reasons to be concerned who/what will come out of the Pit when Sara takes the dip. More LOA and more Nyssa is always a good thing. (I'm wondering too how Nyssa will think of the idea ...)

    With all the lying/omissions of truth Ollie has committed, he won't have a leg to stand on when he eventually finds out about Sara being reborn.

    I liked the Laurel and Diggle scene. I can see Diggle helping Laurel with Nanda Parbat down the line because of their similar circumstances. I can see the whole HIVE thing also being a future beef between Diggle and Quentin, unless Quentin was under mystical influence or something. On this show, being under the influence gets you a pass.

    And while I do think the eventual return of Sara may seem like it negates the motivation for Laurel to take on her sister's cause, this would be more of a concern if Sara had come back from the dead during Laurel's beginning days as BC in S3 ... before she had settled into vigilante mode. It's not like Laurel is going to go 'Oh, my sister's back. There goes all of my motivation for fighting for justice'. She's been at it for awhile now -- including the time Team Diggle carried the weight while Ollie hung up his bow and arrow in favour of fondue and playing fantasy prep school lottery -- so I don't think "the return of Sara" will undercut her drive to be a vigilante as it might have back in S3. I do think they don't always consider how moves like this (bringing Sara back so she can be on LOT) may have unintended ripple effects on existing characters.

    Felicity's CEO subplot was okay and I'm glad she'll actually have someone other than Team Arrow to confide in (and somewhere else other than the Arrowcave to hang out in!) If they're going to make her more well-rounded re: character development, seeing her in a non-Arrow environment aka interacting more in the real (non-Ollie) world is a good sign.

    At this point, Olicity exists. I acknowledge it does, and that it will have a place in Ollie's journey. The degree of its importance to Ollie's journey and the show is where the fandom tends to polarize about it. Yeah, the fern scene was fan service, but considering the shippers had a truckload of these on the S4 premiere this was tolerable. They didn't wallow in it this episode. Olicity in small bites is far more digestible than getting a full-course meal of it.

    Thea's side effects emerging over several episodes is good to see, as it seems Ollie needs a constant reminder that Malcolm was actually right about the Pit. I can see how the team might think these side-effects are new, but they're not new to Ollie. He was there when Thea jumped out of the Pit like a demon out of hell, so he had his uh-oh moment last year -- regardless of how normal Thea seemed to him in the following days and weeks. It's Ollie in denial mode and his realization of this was long overdue.

  12. #12
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    Like last time, I’m reviewing before reading any other reviews here.

    The storyline for this episode had a single goal in mind: getting Oliver into the mindset to run for mayor. That’s it. This particular episode was so transparent I could probably walk right into it on the street and get a broken nose for the effort. What made this episode interesting was the character interactions and how things played out.

    The good:

    We got confirmation of what most of us suspected: that Darhk threatened Laurel to bring Lance onboard. Laurel is going to give her Dad the stink-eye for that, methinks. I also wonder how Damien Darhk is going to react when he puts two and two together (and he will) to realize that after he gave Lance the address, Lance handed it over to the Green Arrow.

    Thea’s craziness is put out into the open so even thick-headed Diggle and oblivious Laurel can see it. Laurel, at least, has the benefit of having not been there for the whole Lazarus Pit issue and therefore not being aware of their being side effects. I’ll get to her reaction about the Pit in a bit. Now, I suspect one reason Thea acted the way she did with the dealer is partly because she was once an addict of sorts herself. I loved that Oliver got right on her, since it does show he’s trying to change. Last season, he wouldn’t have hesitated to break the guy’s arm himself. Well, actually, he’d probably of put an arrow in the guy’s shoulder and used that to question him. I am glad Oliver forced that fight to illustrate the issue for Diggle and Laurel.

    Diggle partly comes out in the open about HIVE, and ignores Laurel who does have some rather bitter experience regarding the whole ‘keep a secret because its about a dead sibling’ idea. However, I think his words, in part, gave Laurel the idea of using the Pit on Sara.

    I hope we have Oliver announcing his candidacy in the next episode, rather than it being announced off-screen. It would be interesting to see Quentin’s expression at hearing Oliver announce his candidacy. I am also very glad they used this storyline, since if they waited to Season 5 it would be long overdue.

    Six months got brought up again, this time in reference to having Mr. Kellum’s working prototype of a ‘world wowing technology’ ready for presentation to the shareholders’ meeting. Connection? I think so. Sadly, Felicity coming up with this idea is about the only remarkable aspect of her first on-screen actions as CEO, and I say this having not had any outside influences as of yet today (whether it be Facebook, PM, or forum posts).

    The bad:

    Apparently, the Danforths are stereotypical blondes, because they literally missed obvious signs that Oliver was GA. Jessica misses Oliver taking a not-so-subtle gulp of orange juice as she talks about the Green Arrow’s broadcast, and Madison somehow doesn’t connect Thea and Oliver to Speedy and Green Arrow, despite them not using the fricking voice modulators.

    Felicity as CEO is not all that impressive, but hopefully she’ll grow into it as time moves forward.

    Laurel, if Thea is a little crazy after having been put into the Pit pretty much right after dying, how the hell do you think it’s a good idea to put Sara in there over a year later? On occasion, Laurel loses her intelligence and becomes the person I tended to harangue during Season 2. This is one of those times. I like Sara, I want her back, but Laurel is being a moron and it has to be said.

    CODENAMES! I don’t know HOW the showrunners and MG are even considered worth their salt if they’re “waiting for the right time” for codenames on Diggle (and most likely Felicity). Even Smallville, for all its faults, gave the members of the proto-JL codenames to go by in the field in case their comm system was compromised. When the show first started out, it was fine, but once Slade and then Sara cracked their frequencies? I believe the phrase is operational security, and both people who should be citing it (Oliver and Diggle) are ignoring that for the sake of plot.

    All in all, I have to give this an 8. It was a good episode, with some interesting moments for the characters, but the issues that should be glaringly obvious as bad ideas are being ignored for the sake of plot. It seems we’ve moved on from the mess of Season 3, but they still want to have ‘issues’ to work out.

  13. #13
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    Ok here's going to come my review. I was waiting to get my thoughts in order before I reviewed.

    Now a solid episode and the whole thing of Oliver running for mayor while it may have been surprising for a normal viewer was not for me. So no biggy and I still was a little surprised when Oliver said the words anyway. I'm happy they are going with this arc now because it will for sure fits and not saving it for later.

    For Lance working with Damien and Laurel being the reason behind it, ok. I'm not entirely sure that's Quentin's only reason and I at least thought he would have done it due to his hatred of vigilantes. For the record I find Quentin chewing out Oliver due to "him" setting a guy on fire was like typical Lance due to ignoring the fact of you can't control every situation and maybe that was the only way to stop him.

    Still once Quentin's alliance with Damien comes out should make things interesting with his daughter and Team Arrow. (yes I'm still calling it that)

    Ok speaking of people with last names for Lance we have laurel going to try and bring Sara back despite having seen Thea's actions as a result of the Lazarus pit. I get she's doing it for her sister and sometimes people don't always make the logical choices but this is her regressing as a character to being a bit of a moron like keeping Quentin in the dark last year. Do I like that Sara's coming back, yes but I would rather have it not be at the sake of another character's intelligence like Laurel's.

    Felicity as CEO I just fast-forward through a lot of her scenes and do I really buy her as good one or people all thought she would come in a and be their savior? just no on both fronts and she has no real prior business experience which yes she was vice president but that doesn't mean much in my books. So far the only CEO of that company under any name that actually wanted to be there was Walter Steel.

    Now Thea's craziness due to the waters of the pit well I'm interested to see how this goes. From a comic book fan I'd say they are doing a pretty good job for a Jason Todd like character. I also like how Oliver forced that fight with Thea and him to illustrate for everyone. That reminded me of the Oliver who at times knew more than he was letting on and was doing something seemingly nuts but with a clear purpose.

    It took me a moment for when they were questioning that one guy and Oliver actually told Thea to back down when for like the past 3 years he would have just broke that guy's arm himself. I guess they are trying to show he is more like The Green Arrow from the comics but it more of seams like they're turning him into a boy scout Superman type. I guess they had to take it a bit father to illustrate how far he's not The Arrow when actually from a comic book stand point Oliver from Post City of Heroes episode was more like "The Green Arrow" from the comics on his methods. It's a little weird to see Oliver acting like the Flash would have in season 1 anyway. (Season 2 Barry I'm less sure about)

    Now on the codenames to put it simply JDBentz is absolutely right. The codenames can't be a waiting for the right time type of moment they need them.

    Oliver in the flashbacks well now we are getting somewhere. We finally have our first appearance of Baron Reiter and oh look Oliver actually took one guy down very swiftly and killed him to. I think Oliver's getting a bit closer to season 1. Also when went to Baron's camp I got "flashbacks" to season 1 where he went into Fyer's camp. This also is shall we say the birth of Oliver who is now learning how to infiltrate and destroy a group from with in something he used very well in the later episodes of season 3.

    Also putting aside the fact of how long's hair was in the pilot episode I'm glad no more flashbacks wigs for now anyway unless they are going to pull a massive recon. Of course we don't get to make horrible wig jokes anymore.

    It looks like Baron's gang is growing opium fields, interesting which judging from how magic fits in this year I don't think that's the only thing he's going to be doing.

  14. #14
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    I liked this episode. Felicity and curtis had a great chemistry and i think we are gonna see great things from them. Which leads me to think that it's not gonna be felicity in the grave as they have a time limit of 6 months to find this grat tech and that's when they bring back ray.

    Loving thea this season and can see alot more crazy ahead of us.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelzta View Post
    I liked this episode. Felicity and curtis had a great chemistry and i think we are gonna see great things from them. Which leads me to think that it's not gonna be felicity in the grave as they have a time limit of 6 months to find this grat tech and that's when they bring back ray.

    Loving thea this season and can see alot more crazy ahead of us.
    *sighs* Ray is coming back before the new year because Legends of Tomorrow begins airing between January and March of next year. And it would make no sense for Oliver and Barry to be at Curtis' grave but no Felicity, who is apparently going to be working with Curtis very closely over the course of the season.

    Agreed that Thea is going to be a very interesting character to watch.

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