Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Green Arrow?"

[evaba]

@ShelbyKent, can I marry your post?? Seriously, honestly, this was the best analysis of the season premiere that I have read so far. It seems that many reviewers and fans so desperately want to like "Arrow" after the disastrous season three that they just gloss over this major flaw, namely that the heroic superhero just doesn't seem eager at all to protect his city anymore (or his loved ones, apparently!). The whole suburban scenario, and Oliver's transformation into master chef/careless jogger seemed so cheesy to me that I almost thought it was an intentional parody of life in Suburbia, à la "American Beauty". If the writers wanted to show how Felicity's benevolent influence had turned Oliver into a changed man, I have to say that I'm not too sure if I like this new Ollie...in fact, it made me long for old PTSD/vengeful killer Ollie, because at least he had a purpose and a will to do good.

[JDBentz]

I've watched the premiere a few more times since my initial review. I have to say I do agree that Suburbian Oliver is.... well, someone I do not like. I am hoping that with him back in Starling we'll see more of the Oliver who cares about his city and his friends and family. Actually, considering his single-mindedness regarding his life in suburbia..... one could almost say he was in denial of his basic instinct. He's observant enough that if he had been looking for it, he would have seen Felicity was still helping the team. We saw he realized this when he put his mind to it in the new lair (is it still considered the Arrowcave?). So he had to have been living in denial and focusing on making this life in suburbia his 'new mission'. Now that that 'mission' has been obliterated by the Mark 2 missile known as Damien Darhk, we might still see Mr. Domestic but it will always be tinged by Green Arrow (hopefully).

My personal guess is that this year, he might have the name, but now he has to live up to it...

[DoubleDevil]

@ShelbyKent, very accurate review. I glossed over the subject by stating it should've been Oliver wanting to return and Felicity supporting him instead of Felicity being the one to convince him to return but it's consistent for Oliver. He makes a decision and, right or wrong, he sticks to it. I would've preferred to see more conflict in him about the decision, maybe while out jogging alone he beats up some random mugger or at home he searches for news on TV about what's happening in Star City. Instead we now have a hero who really doesn't give a hoot about what happens, Star City falls apart so what I'll just move on to somewhere else. Laurel or Diggle dies, sad for the loss but they knew the risk they were taking by continuing the fight. Oliver Queen is now the "hero" that sits back unaffected by what's happening around him and delegating what hero under him takes on what challenge. "Diggle, you take on Deadshot, Laurel you're on Brick, Thea will go after Cupid. Damien Darhk, darn it... None of my protégés is able to handle him so I'll have to suite up myself." Oliver Queen is now the reluctant hero, the one that wanted to retire but can't because he's the best qualified, not the inspirational hero. He inspired Roy Harper, Laurel and even Thea but now he'll just be hiring new heroes so that he doesn't have to do the job and not because the job has gotten to big for him to handle by himself.

[Shelby Kent]

Shelby, you touched on pretty much everything I was thinking about the premiere in your review. Well said!

-I still can not find a single reason to root for Oliver. He's comfortable with turning his back on his sister and his 'friends' and his city? I don't mind a hero wanting some happiness, but as Shelby said, I needed to see at least SOME conflict in Oliver and I'm seeing none. He was happy letting the people he supposedly cared about die, letting people in his city die while he's doing... what? He doesn't seem to have a job or anything besides being a househusband. Which would be completely valid if they had kids or if we at least saw him have a hobby or... some sort of purpose? I can't root for a character who has no ambition to do ANYTHING.

@ShelbyKent, can I marry your post?? ... The whole suburban scenario, and Oliver's transformation into master chef/careless jogger seemed so cheesy to me that I almost thought it was an intentional parody of life in Suburbia, à la "American Beauty". If the writers wanted to show how Felicity's benevolent influence had turned Oliver into a changed man, I have to say that I'm not too sure if I like this new Ollie...in fact, it made me long for old PTSD/vengeful killer Ollie, because at least he had a purpose and a will to do good.

@ShelbyKent, very accurate review... I would've preferred to see more conflict in him about the decision, maybe while out jogging alone he beats up some random mugger or at home he searches for news on TV about what's happening in Star City. Instead we now have a hero who really doesn't give a hoot about what happens, Star City falls apart so what I'll just move on to somewhere else. Laurel or Diggle dies, sad for the loss but they knew the risk they were taking by continuing the fight. Oliver Queen is now the "hero" that sits back unaffected by what's happening around him and delegating what hero under him takes on what challenge. "Diggle, you take on Deadshot, Laurel you're on Brick, Thea will go after Cupid. Damien Darhk, darn it... None of my protégés is able to handle him so I'll have to suite up myself." Oliver Queen is now the reluctant hero, the one that wanted to retire but can't because he's the best qualified, not the inspirational hero. He inspired Roy Harper, Laurel and even Thea but now he'll just be hiring new heroes so that he doesn't have to do the job and not because the job has gotten to big for him to handle by himself.

Thanks. Your posts all capture the essence of the problem for me as well, and much more concisely!

-Still not sold on the Olicity romance. It doesn't seem very healthy for Felicity to be lying to Oliver about her involvement with the team, or for him to be completely unaware that she was bored in the suburbs.

The not so good
- The Olicity scenes in general. I just didn't feel the chemistry. The scenes in the suburbs especially were ridiculously cheesy and pointless. I want to believe that they won't take it too far with the proposal, but when it comes to this relationship, I've come to expect the worst from the show. Hopefully they will tone down the relationship stuff in the weeks to come, because it's what dragging down the show at the moment.

This and this also.

I knew Olicity would be front and center in S4 and thus, thinking myself well-prepared ahead of time for what I would encounter, I put up no resistance. I came out willingly, surrendered with hands up waving in the air, having decided to cast aside my S3 grudge. Then I watched each Olicity scene closely, scampering down the rose petal-strewn Olicity path farther and farther with every scene, trying my best to become a true believer. I was a willing participant. No one forced me at gunpoint. I tried to keep an open mind, nodding my head in approval with each scene (the ole' "fake it till you make it" ploy). But in the end, I just couldn't buy it. I really did try, and I know I sincerely gave it my best shot. But I just don't feel the chemistry. I know I'm supposed to, but I don't. I felt like I was watching two people acting out what was written in a script. Just doesn't work for me... Oh, well...

...but, on a brighter note, I'm so pleased with how much I still like Laurel, after having gotten off to a really rocky start with her (intense dislike S1 & most S2) -- I would never have believed it if someone had told me that by S4 she'd be a favorite and that I'd be happy each time she had a scene....And there's still Diggle and Thea of course. Together, the three are, as most everyone has already said in various ways, great fun to watch...

Too bad Oliver and Felicity couldn't just stay in Coast City...

[BkWurm1]

...but, on a brighter note, I'm so pleased with how much I still like Laurel, after having gotten off to a really rocky start with her (intense dislike S1 & most S2) -- I would never have believed it if someone had told me that by S4 she'd be a favorite and that I'd be happy each time she had a scene....

Laurel remains my chore to watch. Toward the end of last season she progressed to ignorable for the most part and that status stayed with a few exceptions.

I think Laurel had a genuinely good scene with Thea on the bike yelling "This is so cool!" and Laurel who looks very determined and even a bit nervous has an actual good line about working on Thea's definition of cool. Totally worked, I laughed and experienced no need to gouge my eyes or ears out. The fight scene with Thea and Diggle and Laurel as a team was a bit underwhelming, I mean, Laurel didn't even get to do anything but ride a bike until she tossed the explosives and BLEW up the back of the truck with DIGGLE and THEA still in it. Still, I won't blame her for badly scripted stunts.

Then they had a fight for the crates which despite having seen maybe three times, remains forgettable. Still, no hate. That's a good thing.

Laurel got her first eye roll and head shake when she didn't take Oliver's reluctance well. I couldn't believe they resurrected the awful "in your bones" line not to mention have KC deliver it while scolding Oliver. What? No please? No empathy for why this may be hard for him? Still, whatever, Laurel doesn't do subtle, I moved on.

Later I laughed that Waller pulled out the "in your bones" line proving both Waller and Laurel seem to think the Darkness is all that can define Oliver. Not sure if that was the parallel intended but it is the one received. Still, that just makes me shake my head, not hate Laurel.

The head shaking and eye rolling increased with Laurel pretty much freely and loudly discussing vigilante business right out in the open with her dad at cop central. Not much better when the whole team is strolling around with bomb sniffers. Discretion people, please!! Laurel was the worst offender though. Why cant' they write and direct her as more competent??? I mean, not only is she having conversations with her dad IN costume, she just beat up the dudes in the precinct with FINGERLESS GLOVES. Any semi incompetent rookie with a fingerprint kit can expose her.

The scene where Oliver barks out orders and then everyone just stands there staring at him makes perfect sense for DIggle, but Laurel and Thea just dragged him back. What did they think he was going to do? I don't even mind the initial shock, but there was just a bit too much 'tude when Laurel is the one that insisted they needed his help. I will give Laurel points for not joining the dump on Oliver parade. Dude is going to have PTSD whenever he visits the train station. The exchange with Thea was just sibling level stuff but Diggle crossed a line saying he's incapable of love and then on top of it all was Quentin to blame him for everything. Poor guy. Not much love for him coming back to save the day. No wonder he was reluctant to return.

The fight with the "ghosts in the abandoned warehouse (which apparently are something Diggle has heard of - what a weird line ) was underwhelming. So nice of those guys with guns to just stand and wait their turn to get beat up.

I was generally disappointed with the action scenes in this episode. Mostly forgettable or cheesy. (Like Oliver doing a CGI assisted flip into the train.) I did like that when the arrows were magically halted and returned to him that Oliver quickly used his bow to knock them out of the air, but that was about the only time I was impressed.

The new suit makes Oliver look short and like a football player without his jersey and Diggle's helmet while not kill me now horrendous during hand to hand combat was terrible when he was driving . How in the bleep could he even see a thing peripherally? I generally enjoyed Speedy (I told you to call me Red Arrow) in action but they need to work on Willa's ability to yell into a crowd. That was very weak. Also maybe they should all have voice modulators?

Oh and then there was that truly cringe inducing scene with Laurel and the kid. I mean we have everyone else getting people out and then there is Laurel ...who helps a kid stand up, cue goofy music, broadly winks like its some secret thing between the two of them (despite being surrounded by hundreds) and then the kid gushes about how strong she was?

Why would they invite such mockery and ridicule? Oh wow, she can assist (not even lift) a fifty pound kid off the ground thus proving she is a superhero! Huh, I've done that. Where's my mask? Where's my key to the city? All they had to do to make that scene work was have the kid in awe of her being the Black Canary. And lose the tinkly music and the cutesy wink. It was out of place.

Still, Laurel didn't induce any hatred so yep, she's doing much better this year.

[Dagenspear]

Laurel got her first eye roll and head shake when she didn't take Oliver's reluctance well. I couldn't believe they resurrected the awful "in your bones" line not to mention have KC deliver it while scolding Oliver. What? No please? No empathy for why this may be hard for him? Still, whatever, Laurel doesn't do subtle, I moved on.

Why would someone feel empathy for someone having a hard time doing the right thing when they shouldn't have a hard time? The show may ignore many things, but remembering that line isn't a bad thing. It's continuity.

Later I laughed that Waller pulled out the "in your bones" line proving both Waller and Laurel seem to think the Darkness is all that can define Oliver. Not sure if that was the parallel intended but it is the one received. Still, that just makes me shake my head, not hate Laurel.

Laurel didn't mention the darkness. She talked about him coming back as a hero. But Laurel was wrong about that, because he isn't and never was. For Oliver, it seems sadly that Waller was right in this case. It's not true about everyone though.

The head shaking and eye rolling increased with Laurel pretty much freely and loudly discussing vigilante business right out in the open with her dad at cop central. Not much better when the whole team is strolling around with bomb sniffers. Discretion people, please!! Laurel was the worst offender though. Why cant' they write and direct her as more competent??? I mean, not only is she having conversations with her dad IN costume, she just beat up the dudes in the precinct with FINGERLESS GLOVES. Any semi incompetent rookie with a fingerprint kit can expose her.

That's no more worse than anything most of the other characters have done that left themselves vulnerable.

The scene where Oliver barks out orders and then everyone just stands there staring at him makes perfect sense for DIggle, but Laurel and Thea just dragged him back. What did they think he was going to do? I don't even mind the initial shock, but there was just a bit too much 'tude when Laurel is the one that insisted they needed his help. I will give Laurel points for not joining the dump on Oliver parade. Dude is going to have PTSD whenever he visits the train station. The exchange with Thea was just sibling level stuff but Diggle crossed a line saying he's incapable of love and then on top of it all was Quentin to blame him for everything. Poor guy. Not much love for him coming back to save the day. No wonder he was reluctant to return.

Diggle was pretty spot on about Oliver being incapable of love. Asking for someone's help doesn't mean you take orders from them.

The new suit makes Oliver look short and like a football player without his jersey and Diggle's helmet while not kill me now horrendous during hand to hand combat was terrible when he was driving . How in the bleep could he even see a thing peripherally? I generally enjoyed Speedy (I told you to call me Red Arrow) in action but they need to work on Willa's ability to yell into a crowd. That was very weak. Also maybe they should all have voice modulators?

Oliver's costume is dumb, as is Diggle's helmet, we're agreed. But the red arrow line was dumb because Diggle's response isn't something anyone would say or have a reason to say.

Oh and then there was that truly cringe inducing scene with Laurel and the kid. I mean we have everyone else getting people out and then there is Laurel ...who helps a kid stand up, cue goofy music, broadly winks like its some secret thing between the two of them (despite being surrounded by hundreds) and then the kid gushes about how strong she was?

Why would they invite such mockery and ridicule? Oh wow, she can assist (not even lift) a fifty pound kid off the ground thus proving she is a superhero! Huh, I've done that. Where's my mask? Where's my key to the city? All they had to do to make that scene work was have the kid in awe of her being the Black Canary. And lose the tinkly music and the cutesy wink. It was out of place.

That stuff happens on the flash all the time and is no more lame than the ridiculous olicity/Felicity lines, or that lame Laurel/Thea exchange on the motorcycle. But Laurel isn't getting a key to the city and being strong enough to lift a kid isn't what makes someone a superhero. It's them doing the right thing.

Still, Laurel didn't induce any hatred so yep, she's doing much better this year.

She didn't induce it in the first place.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

[Shelby Kent]

Laurel remains my chore to watch.

Laurel got her first eye roll and head shake when she didn't take Oliver's reluctance well. I couldn't believe they resurrected the awful "in your bones" line not to mention have KC deliver it while scolding Oliver. What? No please? No empathy for why this may be hard for him?

Sadly, I felt no empathy at all for Oliver, as he seemed to have totally put everyone (Thea, Diggle, Laurel, his city...) behind him and apparently never spared them any further thoughts, despite the fact that they were out fighting criminals and the city was falling apart. Watching how carefree he and Felicity seemed, I kept hearing the word "selfish" float through my head as I watched them. Again, probably b/c they never seemed to voice any concerns about those they had left behind....they both seemed so care-free (literally). Of course I did find out later that Felicity was helping, but not Oliver.... I was really sorry Laurel and Thea went and dragged him back....it was disrespectful to Diggle (not having first told him that that was their plan, regardless of his wishes...) ... I just don't have any use for Oliver... he seems empty and vapid; I thought he'd found a calling when he was shipwrecked, but apparently not.....he was just playing a role for several years and now he was on to his next (3rd) role, rather than on the hero's journey I thought I was watching....Diggle, however, had a really strong moment when, as much as he still felt angry with Oliver, he gathered himself together and made the deliberate decision to put all that aside for the moment b/c he wanted to do whatever needed doing for the sake of his loved ones and his city --- that's who I felt empathy for: Diggle!

The scene where Oliver barks out orders and then everyone just stands there staring at him makes perfect sense for DIggle, but Laurel and Thea just dragged him back. What did they think he was going to do? I don't even mind the initial shock, but there was just a bit too much 'tude when Laurel is the one that insisted they needed his help.

Yes, I saw that scene as ~10% odd (since Thea and Laurel had asked him back) but 90% funny (and satisfying -- see above comments)

but Diggle crossed a line saying he's incapable of love and then on top of it all was Quentin to blame him for everything. Poor guy. Not much love for him coming back to save the day.

When I consider Oliver's history, Diggle might have a point. Oliver has displayed a lot of self-centeredness. There was all the sleeping-with-Sara-Laurel's-sister-stuff and then again, as above, he apparently didn't feel any qualms about just walking away when he thought things got too hard. No attempt to stay and try to find a way to work through his issues for the sake of being there for the others ....Hmmmm....just like restraining himself from screwing around with Sara for the sake of someone else's feelings was too hard as well....

No wonder he was reluctant to return.

Too bad he let Felicity talk him into it, b/c he sure didn't seem to feel any impetus to do so of his own accord.... and who really needs a pseudo-hero like that?

Diggle's helmet while not kill me now horrendous during hand to hand combat was terrible when he was driving . How in the bleep could he even see a thing peripherally

Ugh the helmet!! Nothing I could say that everyone hasn't already said about how awful it is!!

Oh and then there was that truly cringe inducing scene with Laurel and the kid. I mean we have everyone else getting people out and then there is Laurel ...who helps a kid stand up, cue goofy music, broadly winks like its some secret thing between the two of them (despite being surrounded by hundreds) and then the kid gushes about how strong she was?

Ha! Yes, it really was cheesy and did take me out of the scene....there is a very similar scene with Clark in Smallville saving a little boy (tho' without the wink). I wondered if this is just one of those required "super-hero" homage scenes that every comic-character based show has to include at least once somewhere in the series.....?

Still, Laurel didn't induce any hatred so yep, she's doing much better this year.

You know, there was a shot of Felicity in the Arrowcave (or whatever it is now) and she was standing alone at her station, busy helping and I don't know if the others were there but just not in the scene or if they were out and about (can't remember that well), but I just had that glimpse of her and it just hit me how much I wished she was part of the show, just purely as herself, and not as part of Olicity (in other words, that she and Oliver were not romantically involved). I would really enjoy watching her in that capacity and I'm sorry she is saddled with the burden of Olicity. Of course others really enjoy Olicity, so good for them that they're getting what they want (someone might as well be happy!). And I'm also surprised (unpleasantly!) by how much I dislike Oliver and just feel a certain amount of contempt for him now....didn't expect that ... don't think I'll make it past the launching of LoT b/c they really can't undo the lack of involvement and passion that I saw Oliver display (and apparently representing 5 months or so of his life) in this ep....

[Dagenspear]

I think Lance is helping Darhk because he told him he would bring back Sara if he did. What do ya'll think?

God bless you all! God bless everyone in your lives! God bless everyone!

[DoubleDevil]

The showrunners really degraded and humiliated Laurel and Diggle with this episode while further elevating Felicity. The final scene of Diggle and Laurel at the end of season 3 was Oliver leaving the protection of Starling City in their hands and we return with the very first scene in season 4 where they fail to stop a robbery before running to Oliver begging him to return and help them. Diggle is an incompetent team leader and Laurel is not only an inadequate vigilante but an inept mentor as well. We should've seen "Team Diggle" with some sort of success alone before running to Oliver, maybe even Oliver not having any direct contact with Damien in the premiere, but instead we had to make sure the "hero" (who no longer has any real interest in saving the city) gets back into the show as quickly as possible. Diggle and Laurel (as well as Felicity) are Oliver's PARTNERS but they showed the two of them more like his incompetent lackeys instead.

[costas22]

Some very good points from Shelby Kent, Evaba and the rest regarding Oliver's return and the reuniting of Team Arrow. I liken this situation a bit to Henry's exoneration on the Flash, because both were storylines that we were eagerly anticipating to see addressed and in the end the payoff was flat.

As far as Arrow is concerned, Oliver's return was just something that happened. No dilemma behind it and no sense of longing on his part. To be honest, I was afraid that the show would depict Felicity as being more eager than Oliver to go back, but I still thought Oliver would at least be conflicted. As other posters brought up, his conversion as a domesticated guy who doesn't care one bit what happens to his hometown came across as incredibly fake. I've had my issues relating to Oliver for a while now (still dumbfounded by the fact that he just handed the LoA over to the guy who killed his father, his best friend and Sara) and the premiere certainly didn't help.

Agree with DoubleDevil too. We should have seen Team Diggle pick up a few wins before running into trouble with Darkh's Ghosts. Like we did when Oliver plummeted to his "death" last year. Having the city in complete decay during Team Diggle's crime fighting and a hero unwilling to return to save it doesn't make any character look good.

[DoubleDevil]

Some very good points from Shelby Kent, Evaba and the rest regarding Oliver's return and the reuniting of Team Arrow. I liken this situation a bit to Henry's exoneration on the Flash, because both were storylines that we were eagerly anticipating to see addressed and in the end the payoff was flat.

As far as Arrow is concerned, Oliver's return was just something that happened. No dilemma behind it and no sense of longing on his part. To be honest, I was afraid that the show would depict Felicity as being more eager than Oliver to go back, but I still thought Oliver would at least be conflicted. As other posters brought up, his conversion as a domesticated guy who doesn't care one bit what happens to his hometown came across as incredibly fake. I've had my issues relating to Oliver for a while now (still dumbfounded by the fact that he just handed the LoA over to the guy who killed his father, his best friend and Sara) and the premiere certainly didn't help.

Agree with DoubleDevil too. We should have seen Team Diggle pick up a few wins before running into trouble with Darkh's Ghosts. Like we did when Oliver plummeted to his "death" last year. Having the city in complete decay during Team Diggle's crime fighting and a hero unwilling to return to save it doesn't make any character look good.

Like I said the only one that really looked good was Felicity, an unnecessary prop up for her in my opinion. Viewers are able to write off any shortcomings from Thea as after effects from the Lazarus Pit but all the others simple look bad in this episode all the way from Oliver to Quentin.

[Freawaru]

Maybe Oliver tried to make the suburban his new Lian Yu? I mean, we saw before that during times of intense internal stress Oliver leaves Star City, family and friends behind and returns "home" to the island. But as he probably guessed that Felicity would not like staying on the island for some months he tried some place else. The end of season three was again very painful for Oliver as he had to play a role he was not really comfortable with.

[Carmine-Infantino]

Laurel remains my chore to watch. Toward the end of last season she progressed to ignorable for the most part and that status stayed with a few exceptions.

I think Laurel had a genuinely good scene with Thea on the bike yelling "This is so cool!" and Laurel who looks very determined and even a bit nervous has an actual good line about working on Thea's definition of cool. Totally worked, I laughed and experienced no need to gouge my eyes or ears out. The fight scene with Thea and Diggle and Laurel as a team was a bit underwhelming, I mean, Laurel didn't even get to do anything but ride a bike until she tossed the explosives and BLEW up the back of the truck with DIGGLE and THEA still in it. Still, I won't blame her for badly scripted stunts.

Then they had a fight for the crates which despite having seen maybe three times, remains forgettable. Still, no hate. That's a good thing.

Laurel got her first eye roll and head shake when she didn't take Oliver's reluctance well. I couldn't believe they resurrected the awful "in your bones" line not to mention have KC deliver it while scolding Oliver. What? No please? No empathy for why this may be hard for him? Still, whatever, Laurel doesn't do subtle, I moved on.

Later I laughed that Waller pulled out the "in your bones" line proving both Waller and Laurel seem to think the Darkness is all that can define Oliver. Not sure if that was the parallel intended but it is the one received. Still, that just makes me shake my head, not hate Laurel.

The head shaking and eye rolling increased with Laurel pretty much freely and loudly discussing vigilante business right out in the open with her dad at cop central. Not much better when the whole team is strolling around with bomb sniffers. Discretion people, please!! Laurel was the worst offender though. Why cant' they write and direct her as more competent??? I mean, not only is she having conversations with her dad IN costume, she just beat up the dudes in the precinct with FINGERLESS GLOVES. Any semi incompetent rookie with a fingerprint kit can expose her.

The scene where Oliver barks out orders and then everyone just stands there staring at him makes perfect sense for DIggle, but Laurel and Thea just dragged him back. What did they think he was going to do? I don't even mind the initial shock, but there was just a bit too much 'tude when Laurel is the one that insisted they needed his help. I will give Laurel points for not joining the dump on Oliver parade. Dude is going to have PTSD whenever he visits the train station. The exchange with Thea was just sibling level stuff but Diggle crossed a line saying he's incapable of love and then on top of it all was Quentin to blame him for everything. Poor guy. Not much love for him coming back to save the day. No wonder he was reluctant to return.

The fight with the "ghosts in the abandoned warehouse (which apparently are something Diggle has heard of - what a weird line ) was underwhelming. So nice of those guys with guns to just stand and wait their turn to get beat up.

I was generally disappointed with the action scenes in this episode. Mostly forgettable or cheesy. (Like Oliver doing a CGI assisted flip into the train.) I did like that when the arrows were magically halted and returned to him that Oliver quickly used his bow to knock them out of the air, but that was about the only time I was impressed.

The new suit makes Oliver look short and like a football player without his jersey and Diggle's helmet while not kill me now horrendous during hand to hand combat was terrible when he was driving . How in the bleep could he even see a thing peripherally? I generally enjoyed Speedy (I told you to call me Red Arrow) in action but they need to work on Willa's ability to yell into a crowd. That was very weak. Also maybe they should all have voice modulators?

Oh and then there was that truly cringe inducing scene with Laurel and the kid. I mean we have everyone else getting people out and then there is Laurel ...who helps a kid stand up, cue goofy music, broadly winks like its some secret thing between the two of them (despite being surrounded by hundreds) and then the kid gushes about how strong she was?

Why would they invite such mockery and ridicule? Oh wow, she can assist (not even lift) a fifty pound kid off the ground thus proving she is a superhero! Huh, I've done that. Where's my mask? Where's my key to the city? All they had to do to make that scene work was have the kid in awe of her being the Black Canary. And lose the tinkly music and the cutesy wink. It was out of place.

Still, Laurel didn't induce any hatred so yep, she's doing much better this year.

I also find it painful to watch laurel/B.C., but does it really have to be this way? Last year I hated the Barbara Kean character on Gotham, but then they had her go crazy and turned her into a Harley Quinn want to be. This season Barbara is one of the best parts of the show. I know they've been trying since the pilot to make Laurel work as a lawyer and B.C., but everything has fallen flat. The B.C. reset only seems to have worked for those fans that already liked laurel, so maybe instead of trying to make her the Black Canary they should pull a Barbara and go for a Dark Canary.

[Dagenspear]

I also find it painful to watch laurel/B.C., but does it really have to be this way? Last year I hated the Barbara Kean character on Gotham, but then they had her go crazy and turned her into a Harley Quinn want to be. This season Barbara is one of the best parts of the show. I know they've been trying since the pilot to make Laurel work as a lawyer and B.C., but everything has fallen flat. The B.C. reset only seems to have worked for those fans that already liked laurel, so maybe instead of trying to make her the Black Canary they should pull a Barbara and go for a Dark Canary.

Barbara is less of a character than she was before. Laurel becoming a villain would be ooc and poor writing. Just like Barbara becoming a villain was.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

[Dagenspear]

Maybe Oliver tried to make the suburban his new Lian Yu? I mean, we saw before that during times of intense internal stress Oliver leaves Star City, family and friends behind and returns "home" to the island. But as he probably guessed that Felicity would not like staying on the island for some months he tried some place else. The end of season three was again very painful for Oliver as he had to play a role he was not really comfortable with.

Good theory! I like that idea and can see it.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!