The Hacker Sidekick: Chloe Sullivan and Felicity Smoak

[Dagenspear]

Anyway, getting the topic back on track.... Isn't it interesting though, how felicity tends to stay the same while the others change if they interact with her? She's pretty much different from Lana Lang in that respect.

She and Chloe have a lot in common though... I remember somebody suggesting a crossover ep with her and Chloe, which I liked the idea of. Smallville's Ollie and Arrow's Ollie watching the two blondes have a show-off in the background, and just generally being confused by what's happening here. lol

They have very little in common.

[Dagenspear]

Chloe was CONSTANTLY accused of making the show dumb down Clark so she could not only out think him but also then show up and physically save him. I personally think whenever Chloe saved Clark there was reasonable in show reason why Clark didn't save himself but she got ridiculed for every bit of green rock that she threw away from him and I couldn't tell you how many arguments I've been in about how Clark is a super smart alien with a photo graphic memory that could easily learn how to hack circles around Chloe or how it was soo unrealistic that Chloe could have gotten so good so fast.

Chloe helped. They never had her pull anything ridiculous out of her hat in the real show.

[DJ Doena]

Chloe helped. They never had her pull anything ridiculous out of her hat in the real show.

Well, she did constantly "have a guy" in whatever office or department she needed to have a guy, even when she was only 14 in season 1. She had a guy in the DMV (the Hungarian with the toy scooter a.k.a. the Austrian with the classic Vespa) and a bio-chem buddy at MetGen and ...

But unlike Veronica Mars, she could not rely on her father's network to make contacts of her own.

[Aurora Moon]

Chloe was CONSTANTLY accused of making the show dumb down Clark so she could not only out think him but also then show up and physically save him. I personally think whenever Chloe saved Clark there was reasonable in show reason why Clark didn't save himself but she got ridiculed for every bit of green rock that she threw away from him and I couldn't tell you how many arguments I've been in about how Clark is a super smart alien with a photo graphic memory that could easily learn how to hack circles around Chloe or how it was soo unrealistic that Chloe could have gotten so good so fast.

I didn't buy it in Smallville and I don't buy it in Arrow. At least Clark Kent really was an alien from a supposed advanced race and had been shown throughout a couple seasons researching complicated subjects, but on Arrow the argument that Oliver was dumbed down is based on one trick Arrow from the pilot, a couple basic searches, and having some computers.

The thing is, Clark had no motivation to even learn complex computer skills, much less hacking. He was far more preoccupied with other things and were more than happy to let Chloe take over the computer stuff so that he didn't have to.

It's true that Clark is intelligent enough to master something quickly and then run circles around the world's experts.... but, if he isn't interested in doing that then why should he do it?

Granted, the way they show "hacking" and stuff on the show does annoy me because it's shown so unrealistically... not to mention being used like a magic plot wand. But I don't think that Chloe's role in the show is unrealistic at all.

You do have a point that Ollie's arrow could had been built by somebody other than Oliver queen... but somebody else also pointed out that he also had a basic understanding in how to fix machines, etc... and thus also knows how to build things. So he knows computers, etc.

I'm gonna use the Sims, a video game to compare the skills shown in both TV shows.

Clark Kent's Computer skill: Most likely a level 2 skill. It's all basic skills, and he can know how to use Google effectively more than level 1 newbies do. But, he doesn't spend much time around computers at all and he also isn't the type who would be interested in invading others' privacy that way. Because face it, Hacking is just basically the technological equivalent of breaking into somebody's house and going though their stuff. Clark's personality doesn't allow him to enjoy doing that kind of thing, even if it might be for a good cause.

Chloe, on the other hand, is around computers more often and definitely is the type who would love snooping into everyone's business by hacking them all.So naturally Chloe's computer skills would be higher than Clark's. Level 5 to 9 at least. She definitely leveled to 9 at the end of smallville.

Oliver Queen's computer skill: Level 5 at least. He knows all the basic hacking skills, etc. He's more focused on his superhero side than the computer hacker side of himself, because he feels that his superhero side is needed more in the world. So that's why he tends to be middle-of-road. He's still competent enough to do it all on his own if he wanted to, but he's more than happy to let Felicity take over all the hacking so that he can focus more on Super-heroing.

Felicity's computer skills... from what I've seen, she would probably be level 8 to 10.

It's very reasonable to show that everyone has different varying skills, etc, even if they all can hack computers or whatever. Yet, the show acts as if Oliver Queen is only level 2 like Clark instead of actually being level 5?

[Dagenspear]

Well, she did constantly "have a guy" in whatever office or department she needed to have a guy, even when she was only 14 in season 1. She had a guy in the DMV (the Hungarian with the toy scooter a.k.a. the Austrian with the classic Vespa) and a bio-chem buddy at MetGen and ...

But unlike Veronica Mars, she could not rely on her father's network to make contacts of her own.

That's hardly what I would call ridiculous.

[BkWurm1]

You do have a point that Ollie's arrow could had been built by somebody other than Oliver queen... but somebody else also pointed out that he also had a basic understanding in how to fix machines, etc... and thus also knows how to build things. So he knows computers, etc.

He tinkered with a broken radio for I swear it was weeks but it might have just been days and got the receiving part to work, but that's it. They pretty much implied he lucked into even that.

Well, she did constantly "have a guy" in whatever office or department she needed to have a guy, even when she was only 14 in season 1. She had a guy in the DMV (the Hungarian with the toy scooter a.k.a. the Austrian with the classic Vespa) and a bio-chem buddy at MetGen and ...

A good reporter makes contacts so she has them when she needs them.

Chloe helped. They never had her pull anything ridiculous out of her hat in the real show.

I tend to agree. For Smallville it was realistic enough for me.

Oliver Queen's computer skill: Level 5 at least. He knows all the basic hacking skills, etc. He's more focused on his superhero side than the computer hacker side of himself, because he feels that his superhero side is needed more in the world. So that's why he tends to be middle-of-road. He's still competent enough to do it all on his own if he wanted to, but he's more than happy to let Felicity take over all the hacking so that he can focus more on Super-heroing.

A five seems pretty high to me for what we've seen. We know he did a few searches on some guys but I don't recall them being something a Level 2 or 3 couldn't pull off. Let's assume he was shown a trick or two, but actual hacking? I just didn't see it.

[Aurora Moon]

Hacking extends to more than just computers.. it also can apply to overriding security codes on digital locks, etc. especially the kind that uses security cards that you have to swipe to get into a place. you can easily hack it to read a fake card as being legitimate so that it lets you into a high-security place. As I recall, Ollie and some of the others have that ability. So yeah, I would definitely rate his skills a Five based on that alone.

[PHOENIXZERO]

At least Chloe had an excuse (at least for a while) when they started to go overboard with her abilities as a hacker but Felicity has become completely broken to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if we find out she's actually a meta human. I wish hacking was just ever a bit more realistic not mash a keyboard for two seconds and suddenly having access to entire systems.

Oh yeah, Chloe's "sources" thing for running a school newspaper was ridiculous.

As for the characters for as bad as the show's writing got at least the writers of Smallville had enough sense to not cave to shippers and put her and Clark together. Of course had Twitter/Tumblr been around in Smallville's early days that might've changed but they were more obsessed with Lana until Kreuk left and by the time they moved to Chloe they already had relationships pretty set.

[Dagenspear]

At least Chloe had an excuse (at least for a while) when they started to go overboard with her abilities as a hacker but Felicity has become completely broken to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if we find out she's actually a meta human. I wish hacking was just ever a bit more realistic not mash a keyboard for two seconds and suddenly having access to entire systems.

Oh yeah, Chloe's "sources" thing for running a school newspaper was ridiculous.

As for the characters for as bad as the show's writing got at least the writers of Smallville had enough sense to not cave to shippers and put her and Clark together. Of course had Twitter/Tumblr been around in Smallville's early days that might've changed but they were more obsessed with Lana until Kreuk left and by the time they moved to Chloe they already had relationships pretty set.

I always respected that about Al and Miles. They stuck with what they wanted.

[BkWurm1]

Not really. They didn't get to be in control of their show the last three seasons even and they were forced to add Lois to the cast in an attempt to help win the lawsuit that said Smallville infringed on the rights to Superboy. Who knows what they really wanted to do.

[PHOENIXZERO]

Not really. They didn't get to be in control of their show the last three seasons even and they were forced to add Lois to the cast in an attempt to help win the lawsuit that said Smallville infringed on the rights to Superboy. Who knows what they really wanted to do.

Source? Lois was added to the show almost two years before Smallville's inclusion in the lawsuit and months before the Superboy lawsuit was even filed and referenced as Chloe's cousin before she even showed up in season four's premiere. Lois was almost certainly in the plans to be added considering it would coincide with the original plan for Smallville to run five seasons. Gough and Millar not being in control of the last three seasons is pretty irrelevant because the people who took over and worked for them, stuck to what Al and Miles wanted.

[Dagenspear]

Not really. They didn't get to be in control of their show the last three seasons even and they were forced to add Lois to the cast in an attempt to help win the lawsuit that said Smallville infringed on the rights to Superboy. Who knows what they really wanted to do.

The last three seasons weren't written by Al and Miles. They left that willingly I believe.

[BkWurm1]

Source? Lois was added to the show almost two years before Smallville's inclusion in the lawsuit and months before the Superboy lawsuit was even filed and referenced as Chloe's cousin before she even showed up in season four's premiere. Lois was almost certainly in the plans to be added considering it would coincide with the original plan for Smallville to run five seasons. Gough and Millar not being in control of the last three seasons is pretty irrelevant because the people who took over and worked for them, stuck to what Al and Miles wanted.

The change in tone and characterization in the last three seasons was stark enough to prove AlMiles's successors were doing what they wanted, not following what came before.

There were worries going around in Smallville's first season that it wouldn't even get renewed for a second because of the impending lawsuit. I knew about the lawsuit that was coming years before they went to court and if a random poster in a Smallville forum understood the ramifications, you can be sure that the suits in charge of the show knew the ramifications too. (and they lost the suit even with the inclusion of Lois) I don't have sources anymore. This all happened nearly a decade ago but I did have sources at the time. Just the fact that Lois got approved and added in season four last minute says a lot.

I'm not saying that AlMiles would have with certainty gone a different way but just that it can't be said with certainty that they wouldn't have gone a different way had they been allowed to do what they really wanted.

[Dagenspear]

The change in tone and characterization in the last three seasons was stark enough to prove AlMiles's successors were doing what they wanted, not following what came before.

There were worries going around in Smallville's first season that it wouldn't even get renewed for a second because of the impending lawsuit. I knew about the lawsuit that was coming years before they went to court and if a random poster in a Smallville forum understood the ramifications, you can be sure that the suits in charge of the show knew the ramifications too. (and they lost the suit even with the inclusion of Lois) I don't have sources anymore. This all happened nearly a decade ago but I did have sources at the time. Just the fact that Lois got approved and added in season four last minute says a lot.

I'm not saying that AlMiles would have with certainty gone a different way but just that it can't be said with certainty that they wouldn't have gone a different way had they been allowed to do what they really wanted.

That's not a confirmation that they were forced.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

[Freawaru]

All they needed to do was alter Lana's personality and motives to fit the narrative of the story so that she would always look awesome and good, and have everyone worship her on her pedestal as always. Surely you noticed how she's always completely different depending on who she's interacting with or which lover she's with currently? So literally every character on the show has their own version of Lana Lang that they think they know very well, and love her for it. Nobody really knows the real Lana Lang, because the writers practically made her bipolar or something like that.

I actually had hoped that the writers would someday use this and show that it was in fact Lana's secret ability. There was an episode in Star Trek about an "emotional metamorph", who always was how the other person wanted her to be. Lana could have been revealed to be something like that - it would at least have explained a lot and closed some holes. But, alas, it never happened.

Neither Felicity nor Chloe are this inconsistent in character, I think. While Felicity's saving of Oliver in the Atom suit was a bit too much I think it was not completely out of character as even in season one she went into that club to get informations for Oliver. As to Felicity's style, in the flashback with her hacker boyfriend we saw that she changed her style before.