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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    I guess that's just not high on my priority list for a superhero show.
    Which I get. My favorite characters are not necessarily the ones I can relate to, even.

    I just added this because I've seen a lot of people saying the main reason they love Felicity is because she is the most normal and the one they can relate to.

    Which is something I'm not really sensing from the character.

  2. #32
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    "Force' was a poor choice of wording when it comes to the jobs that Felicity has been given (though Oliver definitely pushed the EA job on her) but I still do take issue with the fact that she has been handed 3 lucrative jobs that most people would LOVE to have, and she doesn't even seem to want them. Granted, the jury is still out on the CEO position, but never once in season three or previous seasons did she show even an inkling of ambition towards anything career-wise, and certainly not towards running a company. And as we saw with Oliver in season 2, a CEO will fail if they are not extremely passionate about the company and their position running the company. So I take great issue with the idea that giving Felicity the company is something "Ray would do." It was a nonsensical and extremely irresponsible thing to do because he is putting the financial fate/livelihood of hundreds (if not thousands) of people in the hands of someone who doesn't want the job nor is qualified to do the job. Being a genius does NOT qualify someone to run a company. Being good with computers and tech does not always equate to interpersonal skills necessary to run a multi-billion dollar corporation. And Felicity can't even keep herself from making inappropriate comments, so how the heck is she going to run a company and handle business meetings? Not to mention that she has another calling in the form of Team Arrow and it was shown that she didn't even regularly attend work as a VP, so why would Ray believe that she would dedicate herself to being CEO? And we were shown early on in the season that Ray believed that revitalizing Queen Consolidated was important to rebuilding the city. While he was definitely focused on getting his suit together, he also understood that there was more than one way to help the city and understood how important it was to rebuild the company. And while I can buy him realizing that he needed to give the company to someone who could devote more time to it now that he's focused on being the ATOM, I don't buy that Felicity was the best candidate.

    And as for the break-up, I think that the writers did Felicity a severe disservice in how they handled it, yes. It seems like they believe that whoever is doing the breaking up will be seen in a poor light, so they want to save Felicity and Oliver from being painted as the 'bad guy' when their relationships fall apart, but that's a little silly because there are times when it's appropriate to break things off with someone and when dragging out a relationship is cruel if it becomes clear that you do not return the person's feelings.

  3. #33
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    Something just popped in my head.... 2x01, when Oliver manages to outsmart Isabel with Walter's help, Felicity says something along the lines of how that isn't bad for someone who got a D in a math-related class (can't remember if it was Calculus or something else). But I do remember it being a class one would take during high school.... which begs the question as to why​ she would be looking that far back into Oliver's past. IMO, that's just a little disconcerting, not to mention bordering on stalkerish (and I am well-aware of Oliver's own stalkerish tendencies).

  4. #34
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    So I take great issue with the idea that giving Felicity the company is something "Ray would do." It was a nonsensical and extremely irresponsible thing to do because he is putting the financial fate/livelihood of hundreds (if not thousands) of people in the hands of someone who doesn't want the job nor is qualified to do the job. Being a genius does NOT qualify someone to run a company. Being good with computers and tech does not always equate to interpersonal skills necessary to run a multi-billion dollar corporation. And Felicity can't even keep herself from making inappropriate comments, so how the heck is she going to run a company and handle business meetings? Not to mention that she has another calling in the form of Team Arrow and it was shown that she didn't even regularly attend work as a VP, so why would Ray believe that she would dedicate herself to being CEO? And we were shown early on in the season that Ray believed that revitalizing Queen Consolidated was important to rebuilding the city. While he was definitely focused on getting his suit together, he also understood that there was more than one way to help the city and understood how important it was to rebuild the company. And while I can buy him realizing that he needed to give the company to someone who could devote more time to it now that he's focused on being the ATOM, I don't buy that Felicity was the best candidate.
    Ray makes extravagant gestures and not only does he have a habit of doing them, he has a habit of seeing his actions as no big deal. Donna Smoak makes one comment about the Smart Watch he manufactured and he strips off his far newer model and gives it to her. When he wanted Felicity to work for him he threw money at her and when she didn't take the bait, he just bought the corporation she worked for ....just to have the pleasure of saying , "well, you already do work for me."

    When he just didn't want to go to business dinner alone cause he thought he'd be bored, he arranged a couture dress and a hugely expensive necklace just because he thought she might like it (and I stand by my belief that until after the dinner he wasn't interested in her romantically). He let her borrow his helicopter and his biggest concern was she didn't know how to run it, he lent her his jet after they broke up, he bought out an entire super popular restaurant in Central City so it would be easier to talk (and no one wants to pay any extras) He kept priceless works of art in his hallway and swapped them out when he wanted a different one.

    To Ray, it seems to me totally in character for him to decide he didn't need Palmer Tech anymore and therefore just hand it over to Felicity. Another thing that Ray does pretty easily is delegate to those he trusts. Like when he had the brainstorm about saving the city power and he wrote it down on a napkin and then dumped the project in Felicity's lap. There is no reason to think he specifically intended for her to be the CEO - if she didn't feel up to the task or want the responsibility, then she could hire someone that could. Or if that was his intention, he didn't know she was going to leave, maybe he planned on training her in on the job himself.

    It seems to me that the key to running anything is to surround yourself with the detail people who are experts. The leader or the one with the vision needs to have the drive and the ability to make the right decisions but they don't have to be the one that has all the answers. So while what Ray did do was nutso, it's still IMO Arrow sane only extra quirky.

    What Ray did was in his weird way thank her for her help with the suit and also get rid of a company he no longer wanted but one he trusted that Felicity would have it's best interests in. She was right there with him as he set his plans for it in motion and she believed in what they were doing too so by just giving her the company, he trusts she'll make the right decisions about it.

    As for her qualifications, in this tv show universe she does seem to be qualified enough. During Oliver's time as CEO he seemed to just be the face and the Glad Hand while Felicity set everything up and handled all his paperwork. In the second half of season two Oliver just plain stopped showing up and then signed away any of his rights so Felicity can't be blamed with it fell apart.

    Then with Ray, he made her his VP and we saw her doing more than just technical stuff, she was also handling again the behind the scenes paper work (and juggling her two gigs while doing it). Her foot in mouth disease is viewed by most as 'charming" and it was Felicity's speech the got the guy to sell his special rock to Ray, so I think she would be fine as a spokesperson or at least no worse than lots of public faces.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 08-05-2015 at 01:42 PM.

  5. #35
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    I just added this because I've seen a lot of people saying the main reason they love Felicity is because she is the most normal and the one they can relate to.

    I think people relate to the emotions, not the circumstances.

  6. #36
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    … but I still do take issue with the fact that she has been handed 3 lucrative jobs that most people would LOVE to have, and she doesn't even seem to want them. Granted, the jury is still out on the CEO position, but never once in season three or previous seasons did she show even an inkling of ambition towards anything career-wise, and certainly not towards running a company. And as we saw with Oliver in season 2, a CEO will fail if they are not extremely passionate about the company and their position running the company. [snip]… Being good with computers and tech does not always equate to interpersonal skills necessary to run a multi-billion dollar corporation. And Felicity can't even keep herself from making inappropriate comments, so how the heck is she going to run a company and handle business meetings? Not to mention that she has another calling in the form of Team Arrow and it was shown that she didn't even regularly attend work as a VP, so why would Ray believe that she would dedicate herself to being CEO?
    Agree with a lot of this. I liked S1F a lot and as part of my respect for S1F I would like Felicity to have her own goal. Any goal she might have has been a bit obscured for me in S3 b/c of her focus on Oliver. If Oliver represents a non-career related goal to have romance, marriage and family, those are very worthwhile goals to have. Problem is I don’t like her being put in a position of being unhappy b/c she needs Oliver’s “cooperation” in that goal. I liked the episode very early on (S3) where, after Oliver pulled away, she announced she was going to go out and get her own life. I cheered her on. But I would also like to see her have a goal that does not involve only the “domestic sphere” (I guess you could call it) and I would like it to be her goal so I could root her on. I feel like she does have a passion for being useful and helping people….

    Also, I do not believe that the temperament I saw in S3F would be well-suited to CEO. I would want to see a much calmer approach to problems. A leader must foster confidence, among other things. Excitable people (I mean people acting in excitable manner in work settings specifically here – don’t want to use more specific adjectives or I think I will get snarky) do not tend to inspire feelings of calm in those around them; such “excitableness” can ramp up emotions in others and cause stress. We make better decisions when we are calm and not stressed. So need a leader whose style will promote calmness….


    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    … So I take great issue with the idea that giving Felicity the company is something "Ray would do." It was a nonsensical and extremely irresponsible thing to do because he is putting the financial fate/livelihood of hundreds (if not thousands) of people in the hands of someone who doesn't want the job nor is qualified to do the job. Being a genius does NOT qualify someone to run a company. Being good with computers and tech does not always equate to interpersonal skills necessary to run a multi-billion dollar corporation.
    As the show progressed, I often found myself questioning Ray’s fitness as CEO in general. I was always very fond of Ray, but he seemed to spend so much time up in his skybox office working on that ATOM suit… I always wondered: WHO is running this company? Because I never really felt Felicity was either…

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    And we were shown early on in the season that Ray believed that revitalizing Queen Consolidated was important to rebuilding the city…he also understood that there was more than one way to help the city and understood how important it was to rebuild the company.
    I know we had to get on with the business of him building his suit, but I missed this side of Ray as the show progressed…..

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Ray makes extravagant gestures and not only does he have a habit of doing them, he has a habit of seeing his actions as no big deal. Donna Smoak makes one comment about the Smart Watch he manufactured and he strips off his far newer model and gives it to her. When he wanted Felicity to work for him he threw money at her and when she didn't take the bait, he just bought the corporation she worked for ....just to have the pleasure of saying , "well, you already do work for me."

    When he just didn't want to go to business dinner alone cause he thought he'd be bored, he arranged a couture dress and a hugely expensive necklace just because he thought she might like it (and I stand by my belief that until after the dinner he wasn't interested in her romantically). He let her borrow his helicopter and his biggest concern was she didn't know how to run it, he lent her his jet after they broke up, he bought out an entire super popular restaurant in Central City so it would be easier to talk (and no one wants to pay any extras) He kept priceless works of art in his hallway and swapped them out when he wanted a different one.

    To Ray, it seems to me totally in character for him to decide he didn't need Palmer Tech anymore and therefore just hand it over to Felicity. Another thing that Ray does pretty easily is delegate to those he trusts. Like when he had the brainstorm about saving the city power and he wrote it down on a napkin and then dumped the project in Felicity's lap.
    These are good examples and I agree that Ray probably did pick Felicity. These examples, along with his spending all his time on his ATOM suit (that I could see) while still CEO, illustrate why I question his fitness as CEO. His choice of Felicity (see earlier answer why I do not think S3F was good choice) fits in with my overall judgment about the questionability of his fitness as good CEO

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    There is no reason to think he specifically intended for her to be the CEO - if she didn't feel up to the task or want the responsibility, then she could hire someone that could. Or if that was his intention, he didn't know she was going to leave, maybe he planned on training her in on the job himself.

    It seems to me that the key to running anything is to surround yourself with the detail people who are experts. The leader or the one with the vision needs to have the drive and the ability to make the right decisions but they don't have to be the one that has all the answers. So while what Ray did do was nutso, it's still IMO Arrow sane only extra quirky.
    I agree with you that he felt very confident in F’s abilities and trusted her and would have been fine for her to decide how she wanted to proceed.

    But knowing that one should pick the right kind of people and having the skill and experience to go about picking the right people are two different things. I’m not sure if S3F has that kind of ability in picking well b/c I don’t think I’ve seen her in roles where she had to hire and evaluate employees….lots of top CEOs don’t do well at picking the “right” people and it shows in the fact that their companies aren’t doing as well as they could (but doesn’t result in their being fired necessarily) or are doing outright poorly (usually get fired with a golden parachute…)

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    During Oliver's time as CEO he seemed to just be the face and the Glad Hand while Felicity set everything up and handled all his paperwork. In the second half of season two Oliver just plain stopped showing up and then signed away any of his rights so Felicity can't be blamed with it fell apart.
    I thought Oliver was a lousy CEO and I would not give him the job back. I would NEVER let Oliver be CEO again. Agree it wasn’t F’s fault that he let things fall apart. As stated above, I don’t think S3F is good choice either. Is Walter still alive? He should come back and run it; I liked him and miss him.

    Otherwise have been toying around with who should run the company from cast of characters available to me.

    Maybe if Thea graduates from HS, goes to college and studies economics/business etc, gets some internship work experiences, then starts working at some lower level positions….eventually she might have temperament to run the business. I think she did okay with running the club. Plus, if she can follow the plan I have outlined, all the while putting in her time as a leatherclad crimefighter on the side, then she probably would definitely be able to handle CEO! (down the road…)

    But just for fun, I’d love to see what Malcolm Merlyn would do as CEO and also I’d love to see Nyssa as CEO. Again, just for fun!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Something just popped in my head.... 2x01, when Oliver manages to outsmart Isabel with Walter's help, Felicity says something along the lines of how that isn't bad for someone who got a D in a math-related class (can't remember if it was Calculus or something else). But I do remember it being a class one would take during high school.... which begs the question as to why​ she would be looking that far back into Oliver's past. IMO, that's just a little disconcerting, not to mention bordering on stalkerish (and I am well-aware of Oliver's own stalkerish tendencies).
    Ok now that does seam a little stalkerish.

    Putting aside Oliver's tendencies for the moment let's focus on Felicity going that far back. If she has researched Oliver that much it does bring into question does she know more about Oliver's five years away then she's letting on. Because I'm sure Amanda Waller would have an A.R.G.U.S. file on him and she could have got ahold of that. Now that I think about it if she's been doing that research on him since at some point in season 1 that does make me question of whether or not she knew about his time away pre even being brought into the team fully.

  8. #38
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Putting aside Oliver's tendencies for the moment let's focus on Felicity going that far back. If she has researched Oliver that much it does bring into question does she know more about Oliver's five years away then she's letting on. Because I'm sure Amanda Waller would have an A.R.G.U.S. file on him and she could have got ahold of that. Now that I think about it if she's been doing that research on him since at some point in season 1 that does make me question of whether or not she knew about his time away pre even being brought into the team fully.
    Oh, I like your thinking Haggard1. You have a very creative mind. Not that I think this is the case but for fun, now I'm having visions of Felicity as a "secret undercover type agent" persona who has used her feminine wiles to snare Oliver/Arrow and infiltrate his clubhouse b/c she works for someone else etc (or whatever) and has her own secret agenda that involves researching and compiling info on him for potentially nefarious purposes! I'm always complaining that I want Felicity to have a goal that has nothing to do with Oliver and this would sure do the trick!

  9. #39
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Oh, I like your thinking Haggard1. You have a very creative mind. Not that I think this is the case but for fun, now I'm having visions of Felicity as a "secret undercover type agent" persona who has used her feminine wiles to snare Oliver/Arrow and infiltrate his clubhouse b/c she works for someone else etc (or whatever) and has her own secret agenda that involves researching and compiling info on him for potentially nefarious purposes! I'm always complaining that I want Felicity to have a goal that has nothing to do with Oliver and this would sure do the trick!
    This reminds me of the season two theory put out there by some that Felicity was a plant of Slades.
    Putting aside Oliver's tendencies for the moment let's focus on Felicity going that far back. If she has researched Oliver that much it does bring into question does she know more about Oliver's five years away then she's letting on. Because I'm sure Amanda Waller would have an A.R.G.U.S. file on him and she could have got ahold of that.
    She told Oliver if it was on the internet, then she could find it. Wasn't there a sex tape too? Lol.

    A.R.G.U.S. though wouldn't be as easy as just tracking something down already loose on the internet. Getting into some school records probably wouldn't take much effort but Waller's organization had hardware that Felicity had only heard of as rumor so while I wouldn't rule out her being able to accomplish it if she had to do it, I think it seems kind of extreme and risky. Beyond that, until season two, she wouldn't have even known he ever worked with Waller.

    But knowing that one should pick the right kind of people and having the skill and experience to go about picking the right people are two different things. I’m not sure if S3F has that kind of ability in picking well b/c I don’t think I’ve seen her in roles where she had to hire and evaluate employees
    I guess we'll see how she does at hiring then.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Oh, I like your thinking Haggard1. You have a very creative mind. Not that I think this is the case but for fun, now I'm having visions of Felicity as a "secret undercover type agent" persona who has used her feminine wiles to snare Oliver/Arrow and infiltrate his clubhouse b/c she works for someone else etc (or whatever) and has her own secret agenda that involves researching and compiling info on him for potentially nefarious purposes! I'm always complaining that I want Felicity to have a goal that has nothing to do with Oliver and this would sure do the trick!
    Ah thanks. Well for having goals that have nothing to do with Oliver it would sure do the trick and throw the audience for a spin. I would be surprised that they would have the guts do it if making Felicity a spy of some kind actually happened in the TV show.

  11. #41
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Personally, I enjoyed Felicity's character in season 1 and 2. In season 3, I hated her.........just when it came to her scenes with Oliver, more so the scenes where she would moan and cry; those made me cringe and want to turn off my TV. Those were the only times I disliked her. Her scenes in Flash with Barry and then in Arrow with Ray were fun and a joy to watch. I don't know......to me, it seemed like the she had better chemistry with Barry and Ray than Oliver.

  12. #42
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    I Thought BkWurm1 did a nice job providing perspective on various choices/actions (closing door on Brick, having arguments etc) made by Felicity. It all seemed pretty logical to me. But that is not to say that other perspectives about the same choice/action are not also logical. I think whether or not one will choose to agree or disagree with the character's various choices will come down to where, on the "means versus ends" continuum, one's viewpoint will fall for each particular scenario/action.

    My problem is very much with the way S3F was written, in terms of communication style: tone and delivery. I found it very inconsistent with what I had seen and liked so much about S1 Felicity

    Quite often the S3 character, while in the midst of contentious debate regarding serious issues about which the character had very valid concerns and viewpoints, communicated using a verbal style that included: crying, quavering voice, increased pitch, yelling and a pleading cadence.

    I call this "toddler-ese" because in our culture, which group most commonly uses these communication techniques to make their viewpoints known? Toddlers

    Why should an intelligent, accomplished, caring professional female character (such as Felicity) be portrayed as using this kind of communication style? Why should any female? When would anyone ever think that, especially in the professional sphere, this would be an effective mode of communication for a woman to utilize? Or that she would even consider it appropriate or strategic? Many women work in settings where emotions run high and life-and-death stakes are involved and this is not considered an acceptable way for them to communicate with their professional colleagues. And women know that to do so would be counterproductive, as the style of delivery is so distracting that the content/substance becomes lost and, in fact, others would not take them seriously. If they could even keep their jobs using this style, that is.

    What does this say about the writers? And what does it say about their perceptions of what the audience finds acceptable for (supposedly) likeable female characters?

    What would we think if an important male character often communicated his concerns to his professional colleagues this way -- by crying, with voice quavering, pleading, using a higher pitched tone and shouting? I think I would probably double-check to make sure I hadn't accidentally tuned into an SNL skit with Will Ferrell..

    An occasional vocalization that conveys a character's fear or distress is not a big deal and very human. But for a character to be made to use this style and to do so quite often as a communication technique, when participating in discussions about serious work-related (Arrowcave) matters in which life-and-death issues are of frequent concern, just boggles the mind...

    I find it distasteful that the writers would present me with a female character who communicates this way and would (I guess) expect me to accept it and to relate to the character. This is not at all what I experience from female colleagues in my work setting (professional or not) and I totally cannot relate to this. Unfortunately this dislike easily translates into dislike for the character, because I have to wonder about a character who would choose to communicate this way.

    I sincerely hope that in the coming seasons the character will be freed of this trait with which the writers have so thoughtlessly and needlessly burdened her. There was no need for her to be written this way and the character most certainly deserves better!

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    Quite often the S3 character, while in the midst of contentious debate regarding serious issues about which the character had very valid concerns and viewpoints, communicated using a verbal style that included: crying, quavering voice, increased pitch, yelling and a pleading cadence.

    I call this "toddler-ese" because in our culture, which group most commonly uses these communication techniques to make their viewpoints known? Toddlers
    Maybe the problem partly lies with Emily-Bett Rickards inexperience as an actress, rather than with the writing, at least when it comes to these more demanding emotionally charged scenes? What I mean is that there is a thin line between emoting in order to show anger, distress, disappointment etc. and over-emoting, or over-acting. I think that EBR sometimes overstepped that line in her season three acting choices, such as in this scene:



    To me, there wasn't anything really wrong with the lines themselves, or the emotions they are meant to convey. The real "fault" (or problem) lies mainly with the delivery, which just seems forced and somewhat stilted. I know that assessments of acting skills are subjective, but I personally have a real problem with Emily's acting sometimes, especially her phrasing and vocal delivery. I also get the feeling that Stephen kind of freezes in these scenes, because EBR is so focused on her own performance that there is not much for him to "play off", so to speak.

    Of course, your criticism also focuses on the verbal style or delivery ("crying, quavering voice, increased pitch, yelling and a pleading cadence"), rather than on the actual content of the lines of dialogue in the more dramatic scenes. However, maybe it is a combination of overly emotional content (i.e WHAT Felicity is saying in these scenes) and HOW Emily delivers her lines that makes it seem as though she is reacting an overly emotional/immature manner, even in circumstances when she should be more composed? If that is the problem, I think it can only be solved with a combination of better writing, and more hands-on directing, that would help EBR find a more natural manner of delivering her lines. I personally find Emily more convincing in Felicity's more quiet dramatic scenes, such as this scene with Laurel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cor9P_VLiRY

    Anyway, there has been much discussion about EBR's "constant crying" or "cry voice" in season three, and I personally believe that some of her scenes would have seemed less tear-drenched or overly dramatic if EBR had been a more experienced and versatile actress. The best thing that the "Arrow" writers/directors can do for her in season four is to play on her strengths, like her comedic timing and her ability to convey warmth and sympathy in the more intimate "one-on-one" scenes, as well as helping her develop her voice modulation/phrasing.

    There are obviously posters here who won't agree with my comments about EBR's acting (I can imagine that BkWurm doesn't!), so these are just my observations, based on my own sense that something didn't really click acting-wise in some of Felicity's more dramatic scenes.
    Last edited by evaba; 08-06-2015 at 04:10 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    However, maybe it is a combination of overly emotional content (i.e WHAT Felicity is saying in these scenes) and HOW Emily delivers her lines that makes it seem as though she is reacting an overly emotional/immature manner, even in circumstances when she should be more composed? If that is the problem, I think it can only be solved with a combination of better writing, and more hands-on directing, that would help EBR find a more natural manner of delivering her lines. I personally find Emily more convincing in Felicity's more quiet dramatic scenes, such as this scene with Laurel:

    Anyway, there has been much discussion about EBR's "constant crying" or "cry voice" in season three, and I personally believe that some of her scenes would have seemed less tear-drenched or overly dramatic if EBR had been a more experienced and versatile actress. The best thing that the "Arrow" writers/directors can do for her in season four is to play on her strengths, like her comedic timing and her ability to convey warmth and sympathy in the more intimate "one-on-one" scenes, as well as helping her develop her voice modulation/phrasing.

    There are obviously posters here who won't agree with my comments about EBR's acting (I can imagine that BkWurm doesn't!), so these are just my observations, based on my own sense that something didn't really click acting-wise in some of Felicity's more dramatic scenes.
    Thanks for sharing that clip! That was a very good example of qualities that I liked in S1F. And it illustrates part of the reason why I decided to talk about the character’s communication style. Because I really did think there was a lot of logic that BkWurm1 brought up about the character’s choices, but for me, all of that was overwhelmingly drowned out by an overall impression that the character practically cried all throughout the season. Which is obviously an exaggeration – but still it is the impression I have. And seeing this scene reminds me how much I forgot about her good scenes S3 with Laurel – again b/c I was overwhelmed by my other reaction. Maybe there are others like me who didn’t like the character, and if someone tries to give us examples of admirable actions, we are just too distracted by the dislike of the crying stuff.

    [For instance, I don’t like the Beatles music. And I fully understand that most everyone else does and everyone can explain to me why the Beatles were/are great and I will not try to contradict them. I believe them. But there is a certain tone to their music that I find to be draggy, depressing, kind of a downer. It just does not appeal to me and never will. And I think everybody else is right when they say the Beatles are great, but I also think that I’m right in that I don’t like their stuff and don’t want to hear it…. That “downer tone” distracts me from noticing anything else]

    Anyway, it very well could be that what I see as a problem (maybe others don’t) with the S3 character has to do with the acting. I always hesitate to go there b/c I don’t consider myself an expert about acting at all. I would think that the various directors bear some responsibility in trying to help the actress bring out whatever it is that they want.

    Also, it may be that EBR has a natural flair for the lighter humorous scenes and when she auditioned, because Felicity was never intended to be a regular, that was what they were looking for and EBR probably knocked it out of the park; and perhaps there was never any need at the audition to see how skilled she was at some of these other types of scenes. Not that I am saying at all that it was a bad thing they ended up with EBR. It was probably very much due to her excellent comedic talents that the character was so well received by the audience and was promoted to regular in the first place!

  15. #45
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    I definitely questioned Ray's fitness as a CEO in the second half of the season as well, Shelby. And since he did think that a company was a 'gift' to give like an expensive dress, apparently he didn't really care about the people who worked there or the impact that the company had on the economy and the city's wellbeing anyway.

    Felicity has been given so many things that she hasn't worked for, especially career wise and that just isn't something that endears a character to me.

    And Shelby, I agree with your post. I don't like when people criticize a female character for 'crying too much' because I think that displays of emotion are important, but I do think that this went beyond that and tried to paint her as an emotional person to the point that it makes her irrational and even childish in cases. And this behavior is yet again not CEO characteristics. Though I also think that Oliver, Ray, and Felicity are all too young to be taken seriously as CEOs. Though I could be proven wrong if someone points to CEOs under 30, but I feel like it would be tough to have them participate in business deals and get taken seriously by stockholders/board members/the general public with how young they are. And in Oliver's case, there would be a lot of grumbling about nepotism and the fact that he was given the company because of his name rather than it be given to someone who'd dedicated their life to the company, and in Felicity's case, I imagine it would be an uproar over someone who was sleeping with the CEO getting the company over, again, someone who might have dedicated their life to climbing the corporate ladder.

    Now, obviously we've got a show about superheroes but I don't see the reason for them asking us to suspend this particular disbelief but to inflate a character's importance to the story (because now Felicity will likely be the money behind Team Arrow as well as their resident computer expert) for some unknown reason.

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