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  1. #1
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    The Felicity Smoak Discussion Thread

    Good, bad, indifferent -here is the place to discuss and debate your views on Felicity.
    Last edited by dreamsofnever; 08-03-2015 at 10:37 AM.

  2. #2
    avi by Keiko Neverending Story's Avatar
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    Felicity.... I don't hate the character but I don't love it either. She leaves me quite indifferent most of the time. I don't see the appeal.

    Tho, if I must add... her (sexual) innuendos never were cute for me. Embarrassing and cringe-worthy, yes. But not cute or endearing.
    Last edited by Neverending Story; 08-03-2015 at 11:11 AM.

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    On the one hand, I liked the character throughout the first couple of seasons, finding her snappy responses refreshing and her pop culture references hilarious. But on the other, there are aspects of the character which simply make it more difficult to like her when it comes to her involvement on the team and with Oliver himself. She originally joined more to help find Walter, and then she was focused on helping people. That was great, and I loved the character. This season, she made it obvious her reason for being on the team was for Oliver's sake, no one else's. I don't care how you shake it, the team has handled threats without Oliver before, and had a chance to deal with Brick and his men at the evidence lock-up. Or have we forgotten that both Oliver's and Roy's suits have kevlar in them like Malcolm's did, and I just don't see Diggle not wearing kevlar to go out and fight bad guys. So when Felicity closed the door behind Brick and his men, she was already metaphorically turning her back on the mission, and then did so again once they returned.

    Now, is it possible Roy and Diggle could have been killed? Yes. But quite frankly, they all take that risk every single time. The only difference there was that Oliver had just been confirmed as 'dead' to them by Merlyn. Amusingly, the abandonment of the mission by Felicity and then the doubts expressed by Roy and Diggle because of this were the very thing that spurred Laurel to take up the mask and billy club. For all the vitriol I've seen spilled out on forums, people seem to like ignoring the reasons behind it. I can safely say that if I were associated with a group of vigilantes and they were all beginning to doubt their mission, and I had a fire in me, I'd do what Laurel did: I'd ignore the fact that I wasn't quite ready and I'd pick up a mask. Sure, I'd get my butt kicked, but I'd still be doing something.

    Now, Felicity did continue working on Team Arrow afterward, but almost immediately began picking fights with anyone who suggested something her idealized version of Oliver wouldn't do, even when it was Oliver himself who would do it. Oliver had already shown a willingness to work with those they considered enemies in the past, so the idea of working with Merlyn was one he would have probably accepted in 3x12 if he had been present, which Roy knew. Oliver's later alliance with Merlyn showed that Arsenal knew his mentor well enough to know that he'd team up with Merlyn for that particular mission (taking down Brick). This continued on through the latter half of the season, with Felicity constantly saying stuff like, "Excuse me? I could swear you just said 'rescue Merlyn'?"

    Considering her continual problems with Oliver's morally gray choices and the fact that he clearly keeping secrets from her (Malcolm as Ra's waves at Felicity), I just don't see the relationship surviving and I am in no mood to sit through a repeat of the Clana Years.

  4. #4
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverending Story View Post
    Felicity.... I don't hate the character but I don't love it either. She leaves me quite indifferent most of the time. I don't see the appeal.

    Tho, if I must add... her (sexual) innuendos never were cute for me. Embarrassing and cringe-worthy, yes. But not cute or endearing.
    This has always been an issue for me too. The occasional accidental sexual innuendo can be funny, but it's something that they've overused with Felicity and it makes her come across as quite shallow. I've also mentioned in the Laurel thread that when I think about characters, I often like to think about how I might feel if the gender of a character was reversed and if a male character made all the innuendos that Felicity does AND made a habit of openly ogling and making comments about female characters while they were working out in, say, a sports bra, the character would be considered a pig. But because Felicity is female, it's played for laughs.

    Now, the role reversal where we have a female character who is clearly comfortable in her sexuality is something that's important to have, but her comments to me seem inappropriate quite often.

    I think the low point for the character in my eyes was when she said that dating Ray was like dating Barry's brain in Oliver's body, which just again reinforced the view of her as a character who is very shallow.

    I also have a huge problem when a show pretends that a supermodel in glasses is somehow less attractive and more 'normal.' Emily is a beautiful woman and pretending that her wearing glasses somehow takes away from her beauty is a really old trope. I gagged in season two when they had a moment where Felicity was dressed in formal wear and had ditched the glasses and we saw both Diggle and Oliver have a visible reaction like they were just realizing that she was hot.

    I do recognize that the cards were stacked against Felicity where my opinion is concerned because the 'supermodel in glasses' trope is one of my least favorite ones, and the 'inappropriate sexual innuendo' thing is also another that's not a favorite of mine, and the 'friendzone' trope (where one character sees the other in platonic light, while the other character is left to pine away as the first character dates everyone but them) also hits a lot of my 'ick' buttons. So of course, my opinion is skewed due to my own personal preferences so of course should be taken with a grain of salt.

    In spite of my own personal preferences, I think that Felicity brings value to the show and I think it's great that we have a female character who is highly intelligent and I think that it's great that we see that you don't always have to suit up to help in the cause of fighting crime. I think it's good that the show has female characters with different strengths and characters in general that have different abilities. I think that in season one, she was a breath of fresh air in that she brought a levity to some of her earlier appearances that was sorely missing in the show.

    I have also really enjoyed the Felicity and Laurel friendship and watching that develop in the last season.

    As for things I don't like, I brought up in another thread that I really dislike the fact that Felicity has now been forced into three lucrative jobs by men that were a love interest for her. We have the executive assistant job in season two, the VP job in season 3, and the upcoming CEO job in season 4. I really want to see some agency and see what she WANTS career-wise in the upcoming season. And since they're rolling with the CEO thing, I want to see her passionate about that. I don't want to see her running the company just because she didn't look at what she was signing. (to be fair, I also really disliked Oliver being CEO in season 2 when he obviously didn't care about the company or about doing a good job)

    I also really dislike the fact that they seem to dumb down other characters to prop her up. Even the STAR labs team over on the Flash seems to have a hard time doing certain computer-related things unless they have Felicity to help, and that bugs me. And her being so vital in Ray building his suit was not my favorite thing either. I'd like to see the show present her as smart without having to take other characters down a peg or two.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    On the one hand, I liked the character throughout the first couple of seasons, finding her snappy responses refreshing and her pop culture references hilarious. But on the other, there are aspects of the character which simply make it more difficult to like her when it comes to her involvement on the team and with Oliver himself. She originally joined more to help find Walter, and then she was focused on helping people. That was great, and I loved the character. This season, she made it obvious her reason for being on the team was for Oliver's sake, no one else's. I don't care how you shake it, the team has handled threats without Oliver before, and had a chance to deal with Brick and his men at the evidence lock-up. Or have we forgotten that both Oliver's and Roy's suits have kevlar in them like Malcolm's did, and I just don't see Diggle not wearing kevlar to go out and fight bad guys. So when Felicity closed the door behind Brick and his men, she was already metaphorically turning her back on the mission, and then did so again once they returned.

    Now, is it possible Roy and Diggle could have been killed? Yes. But quite frankly, they all take that risk every single time. The only difference there was that Oliver had just been confirmed as 'dead' to them by Merlyn. Amusingly, the abandonment of the mission by Felicity and then the doubts expressed by Roy and Diggle because of this were the very thing that spurred Laurel to take up the mask and billy club. For all the vitriol I've seen spilled out on forums, people seem to like ignoring the reasons behind it. I can safely say that if I were associated with a group of vigilantes and they were all beginning to doubt their mission, and I had a fire in me, I'd do what Laurel did: I'd ignore the fact that I wasn't quite ready and I'd pick up a mask. Sure, I'd get my butt kicked, but I'd still be doing something.

    Now, Felicity did continue working on Team Arrow afterward, but almost immediately began picking fights with anyone who suggested something her idealized version of Oliver wouldn't do, even when it was Oliver himself who would do it. Oliver had already shown a willingness to work with those they considered enemies in the past, so the idea of working with Merlyn was one he would have probably accepted in 3x12 if he had been present, which Roy knew. Oliver's later alliance with Merlyn showed that Arsenal knew his mentor well enough to know that he'd team up with Merlyn for that particular mission (taking down Brick). This continued on through the latter half of the season, with Felicity constantly saying stuff like, "Excuse me? I could swear you just said 'rescue Merlyn'?"

    Considering her continual problems with Oliver's morally gray choices and the fact that he clearly keeping secrets from her (Malcolm as Ra's waves at Felicity), I just don't see the relationship surviving and I am in no mood to sit through a repeat of the Clana Years.
    Very well thought out. What began to turn me off is when she shut the door at the lock up and let Brickwell get away. The suits that Oliver, Roy ect should have Kevlar in them despite it hardly ever being mentioned and Oliver's habit of being shot.

    Have to agree with you on Laurel suiting up and doing the same myself. That just further fuelled her fire.

    Like you said her constant bringing up of stuff that she doesn't think her idealized version of Oliver which is a good way to put it became increasingly annoying and made it very clear she needed to be off the team. Now when I go back and watch season 1 and 2 I'm like I can see that fantasy version of Oliver being formed. So I suspect in the My Name is Oliver Queen Felicity still thinks she is driving off with the idealized version of Oliver which let's face I highly suspect she's not going to be very happy with Oliver suiting up in 40X1.

    Because she has constantly proven that she wants Oliver to herself and doesn't even want him out there being a vigilante. Look at in the season 3 finale where she told Ray to go save Oliver over the entire city which also to me shown how selfish she was. Honestly if Oliver was written by the fan base and plot in season 3 I can't really see why he would have even fallen for someone like Felicity Smoak.

    Also another thing I've noticed is Steven Amell as an actor playing Oliver just like freezes when Felicity gets on a hissy fit because she is acting so over the top he can not properly act back.


    I'm in the same boat of I don't want a repeat of the Clana Years. The wishfully thinking part has got me hoping they will just end the Oliver and Felicity romance because I think removing her permanently from show would be to much but the other logical part knows that because of the show writers plus how they listen to the Tumbler/Twitter fanbase it's not going to happen.

  6. #6
    avi by Keiko Neverending Story's Avatar
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    Something else that weirds me out about the writing for Felicity : she came from saying "I finally have a guy who's interested in me and he's struck by lightning" in season 2 to having two billionaires superheroes in love with her at the same time a few months later.

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    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverending Story View Post
    Something else that weirds me out about the writing for Felicity : she came from saying "I finally have a guy who's interested in me and he's struck by lightning" in season 2 to having two billionaires superheroes in love with her at the same time a few months later.
    THIS bugged me too. That and her mentioning that her mom disliked that she never had a date. But I suppose it's possible that being on Team Arrow has helped her find a purpose in life and is allowing her to 'blossom' so to speak and now men are flocking to her. But I do really hate when we're told that a character is one thing but shown another. I also really dislike the wardrobe choices they made for her in season 2 and season 3 because they don't seem to fit the character they're trying to convey and most of those outfits are REALLY inappropriate for a corporate setting and that just bugs me so much. It'd be like if Oliver were showing up shirtless to work in season 2 when he was CEO. And then having her shame her mom for the way she dresses when Felicity dresses in the same way, that just rubbed me the wrong way. I don't necessarily fault the character for that though, because I think it's basically the wardrobe department trying to draw in male viewers with the use of eye candy, but it does bug me because the wardrobe is so out of character.

    And JDbentz and Haggard, you guys made some wonderful points. I think that the idealized version of Oliver that Felicity sees vs the real Oliver is a problem and I hope that we see that dealt with in season four as the relationship progresses and both Oliver and Felicity get to know each other on a more intimate level. I fear that they'll just gloss over that and pretend that the relationship is perfect rather than digging deeper into all the complexities that can come with a relationship, especially one where the attachment is formed under fairly extreme circumstances (since things are pretty much always life and death with Team Arrow)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverending Story View Post
    Something else that weirds me out about the writing for Felicity : she came from saying "I finally have a guy who's interested in me and he's struck by lightning" in season 2 to having two billionaires superheroes in love with her at the same time a few months later.
    Weird? That's saying it nicely I'm going to go with down right creepy. It almost makes me think Felicity Smoak was an early metahuman with the power to make any man which usually is any and all future heroes full under her spell and act like love sick teenagers. Suddenly looking at it from that perspective things are starting to make a lot more sense.

    That's way 'm kind of glad Bruce Wayne will probably never show up because I don't want him to get trapped under Felicity's Smoak's spell and plot required powers of needing to be in love with the IT girl or is it CEO of Palmer Tech these days.

  9. #9
    avi by Keiko Neverending Story's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    THIS bugged me too. That and her mentioning that her mom disliked that she never had a date. But I suppose it's possible that being on Team Arrow has helped her find a purpose in life and is allowing her to 'blossom' so to speak and now men are flocking to her. But I do really hate when we're told that a character is one thing but shown another.
    I see it more about the show going from 0 to 180 in such a short time that it is not believable. IMO.

    I'm not saying that men don't have reasons to love Felicity. But why her other love interest wasn't a more "normal" guy. That would have made her conflict more interesting too.

    But like Felicity said herself, she "has a type". And she is lucky these rare specimen (rich superheroes who use salmon ladder) love her back. I mean, what are the odds?

  10. #10
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Weird? That's saying it nicely I'm going to go with down right creepy. It almost makes me think Felicity Smoak was an early metahuman with the power to make any man which usually is any and all future heroes full under her spell and act like love sick teenagers. Suddenly looking at it from that perspective things are starting to make a lot more sense.

    That's way 'm kind of glad Bruce Wayne will probably never show up because I don't want him to get trapped under Felicity's Smoak's spell and plot required powers of needing to be in love with the IT girl or is it CEO of Palmer Tech these days.
    I am just thankful that neither Felicity nor Laurel has the meteor freak power of turning all men into crazy stalkers. The show could very easily have gone the route of having a new villain obsessed with one of the ladies every episode, to set up the maximum amount of occasions for Oliver to save her, but it didn't. So I will be forever thankful for that.

    But perhaps it's more that affection from Felicity turns men into superheroes? Because it helped inspire Ray to finish his ATOM suit, Barry got hit by lightning, and [SPOILER] after five months with Felicity, Oliver will now become Green Arrow.[/SPOILER]

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    THIS bugged me too. That and her mentioning that her mom disliked that she never had a date. But I suppose it's possible that being on Team Arrow has helped her find a purpose in life and is allowing her to 'blossom' so to speak and now men are flocking to her. But I do really hate when we're told that a character is one thing but shown another. I also really dislike the wardrobe choices they made for her in season 2 and season 3 because they don't seem to fit the character they're trying to convey and most of those outfits are REALLY inappropriate for a corporate setting and that just bugs me so much. It'd be like if Oliver were showing up shirtless to work in season 2 when he was CEO. And then having her shame her mom for the way she dresses when Felicity dresses in the same way, that just rubbed me the wrong way. I don't necessarily fault the character for that though, because I think it's basically the wardrobe department trying to draw in male viewers with the use of eye candy, but it does bug me because the wardrobe is so out of character.

    And JDbentz and Haggard, you guys made some wonderful points. I think that the idealized version of Oliver that Felicity sees vs the real Oliver is a problem and I hope that we see that dealt with in season four as the relationship progresses and both Oliver and Felicity get to know each other on a more intimate level. I fear that they'll just gloss over that and pretend that the relationship is perfect rather than digging deeper into all the complexities that can come with a relationship, especially one where the attachment is formed under fairly extreme circumstances (since things are pretty much always life and death with Team Arrow)
    On Felicity's wardrobe choices I know half the stuff she wears is for eye candy and most of it is not really that attractive. Which I'm a guy saying that. One dress that always annoys me is the one she worse in Three Ghosts and in the Calm when both Barry and Ray show up. That's so not even appropriate for the job she works in and actually more of portrays her character in a negative light because it makes her kind of look like a hooker to be blunt about it. Again that's not the fault of the actress but of the wardrobe department.

    Ah thanks. Knowing them they will probably just gloss over it and knowing anything will make Felicity try even harder to make the idealized version of Oliver and the real one match. Since Oliver supposed to become lighter as the Green Arrow.


    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    I am just thankful that neither Felicity nor Laurel has the meteor freak power of turning all men into crazy stalkers. The show could very easily have gone the route of having a new villain obsessed with one of the ladies every episode, to set up the maximum amount of occasions for Oliver to save her, but it didn't. So I will be forever thankful for that.

    But perhaps it's more that affection from Felicity turns men into superheroes? Because it helped inspire Ray to finish his ATOM suit, Barry got hit by lightning, and [SPOILER] after five months with Felicity, Oliver will now become Green Arrow.[/SPOILER]
    Now that you mention it I'm very thankful neither Felicity nor Laurel has that problem from Smallville. Which I actually think in one of the Three Ghosts episodes Chloe and Lana both sat down and did a chart of how many stalker guys they had until that point.

    You mean where she is the light of inspiration? I heard read that on a post from Tumbler once from an article somewhere. having the fact of them become superheroes due to Felicity is honestly a disservice for both characters of Felicity and Barry, Ray or Oliver.

    Which on the "Green" Arrow now that you mention it I'm very thankful that Oliver's original persona of the Hood/Arrow had nothing to do with Felicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    I am just thankful that neither Felicity nor Laurel has the meteor freak power of turning all men into crazy stalkers. The show could very easily have gone the route of having a new villain obsessed with one of the ladies every episode, to set up the maximum amount of occasions for Oliver to save her, but it didn't. So I will be forever thankful for that.

    But perhaps it's more that affection from Felicity turns men into superheroes? Because it helped inspire Ray to finish his ATOM suit, Barry got hit by lightning, and [SPOILER] after five months with Felicity, Oliver will now become Green Arrow.[/SPOILER]
    Oh, PLEASE don't get me started on that. I absolutely hated the scenes this season on both Flash and Arrow where Felicity played the 'wise Yoda role' giving sage advice to nascent heroes.... Oliver was believable because, as he tells Barry, he's been in this life for EIGHT YEARS. The flimsy attempt regarding Felicity's 'first attempt at heroism' being the supervirus is laughable in comparison, so her giving the sage advice to Barry in Flash 1x04 and Ray during Oliver's absence and then later during the Suicide Squad episode....

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    But like Felicity said herself, she "has a type". And she is lucky these rare specimen (rich superheroes who use salmon ladder) love her back. I mean, what are the odds?
    Priceless comment! Thanks for giving me a good laugh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Weird? That's saying it nicely I'm going to go with down right creepy. It almost makes me think Felicity Smoak was an early metahuman with the power to make any man which usually is any and all future heroes full under her spell and act like love sick teenagers. Suddenly looking at it from that perspective things are starting to make a lot more sense.

    That's way 'm kind of glad Bruce Wayne will probably never show up because I don't want him to get trapped under Felicity's Smoak's spell and plot required powers of needing to be in love with the IT girl or is it CEO of Palmer Tech these days.
    In my Green Arrow/Batman crossover, I had an idea where Batman and Batgirl openly ridiculed this entire concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    In my Green Arrow/Batman crossover, I had an idea where Batman and Batgirl openly ridiculed this entire concept.
    Ok you do realize that now you may have me wanting to actually write out that scene.

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