Am I the only one that Disagrees "Olicity?"

[Haggard01]

That part isn't there. I only have season one. What I described would be in season 2. Which I've just now decided to call the "Fix things that Arrow broke" season. Lol. There's also Slade and Ra's that I have in there.

I just meant over viewing it and discussing it in general. I'm sure I will probably have a few ideas. A fix things that Arrow broke season would work for me.

[BkWurm1]

Apparently at comic con a journalist asked EBR what did she think of her character being one of the reasons season 3 went down hill. This was most surprising of EBR saying she didn't enjoy her character being so weak and emotional with crying all the time. Then EBR said that she hopes the writing for her character improves season 4.

The journalist was forced to close her twitter account from the amount of cyber bulling from the olicty fans who have no problem who were cheering on and retweeting Laurel hating against the character and the actress like calling her a stuck bi***.

The "journalist" didn't ask how it felt that her character was one of the reasons season three went down hill, she said what did EBR have to say to the fans that feel Felicity RUINED the show. I saw the interview and I have never heard any actor on the show ever be accused of ruining the show. Not by a supposedly official interviewer and certainly not to their face. KC has NEVER had to answer such an mean spirited statement. It wasn't even a real question, it was just an insult said to the actor's face (an actor who had zero control over the scripts) framed as a question.

EBR's face just fell, like she'd been punched in the gut and repeated the words "she ruined the show" with such sadness.

The same interviewer also sucker punched Candice Patton something to the effect about how half the fans didn't think she made a decent enough love interest. (And I guess in one of her earlier online articles hoped Iris got eaten by Grodd) She also tried to pull something with Wendy Mericle but she made the interviewer explain what they meant before she'd reply to the "gotcha" "question".

I honestly am not feeling much pity for her. TV Fanatics took down the interview and reached out and apologized to the show runners and EBR.

Someone took it upon themselves to put it up on YouTube to keep things stirred up but they made it look like it was the interviewer reposting it herself in defiance so I'm not surprised people got mad again. Hopefully people calm down but the interviewer (and probably the site) was trying to target the actors and producers and make it personal and that is just not acceptable.

I would have been equally as upset if someone on the red carpet doing fun interviews for the fans at Comic-con took it upon themselves to tell KC or anyone else they ruined the show. Even fans have better manners not to say mean things about the characters to the actors in the Q&A.


On the internet lots of crap gets said, but this was an in person interview. The actors can avoid a lot of the crap on line or on Twitter but when it gets tossed right in their face???

It was absolutely crossing a line and I sincerely hope the interviewer has learned something.

Taking down her Twitter account isn't that big of a deal. She can always put it back up when the fuss has died down. SA goes back and forth with his all the time.

EBR herself seemed to be a lot cooler about the interview than her more rabid fans. I think the reason why they are so irate is not only because the interviewer said something unpleasant about Felicity's storyline to her face, but that Felicity's official media success story became a bit tarnished, in the sense that it revealed that the whole fandom does not agree that Felicity is the best thing about "Arrow". When the interviewer said that "some fans" feel that season three Felicity "ruined the show", some parts of the Olicity fandom just flipped, because the established truth, at least in some quarters, is that Laurel "ruins the show"!

No, people flipped out because it was a kind of rudeness and mean spiritedness that has never touched any of the rest of the cast. Nor should it.

[Dagenspear]

No, people flipped out because it was a kind of rudeness and mean spiritedness that has never touched any of the rest of the cast. Nor should it.

Did the interviewer say that Emily ruined the show or that Felicity did? Because if they said the character and not the real person, then it's not those things. Unless her or the fans can't tell the difference between character and the actress I don't see the problem or why they should be upset.

[BkWurm1]

Did the interviewer say that Emily ruined the show or that Felicity did? Because if they said the character and not the real person, then it's not those things. Unless her or the fans can't tell the difference between character and the actress I don't see the problem or why they should be upset.

When you show me an interview where any other member of the cast is told their character has ruined the show we can talk, until then all I'm hearing is excuses for bad behavior. Bad REAL LIFE behavior.

[Dagenspear]

When you show me an interview where any other member of the cast is told their character has ruined the show we can talk, until then all I'm hearing is excuses for bad behavior. Bad REAL LIFE behavior.

A fictional character being said to have ruined the show isn't a big deal. The actress isn't the character.

[Haggard01]

A fictional character being said to have ruined the show isn't a big deal. The actress isn't the character.

You have a very good point. I'm not quite sure myself I understand the difference between having questions over the internet or face to face.

[JDBentz]

In regards to this interview we've been discussing: Bkwurm1, you said it got reposted to YouTube? Any chance you provide a link? I think it would help those of us confused, such as Haggard and myself, if we could see what actually happened rather than getting it second/third hand. Because right now, even the way you worded it doesn't spell out trouble. Perhaps you never saw this, but during either the PaleyFest panel, or last year's SDCC panel, one of the people who was going to ask a question told Willa that he had been like "don't kill the mother" during 2x20 because he didn't like Thea's story arc during the first two seasons. I think she and Barrowman's tag-team embarrassed the guy.... but my point is that what you're asking people to provide has already happened, and they handled it with good humor. If the question was about the character ruining the show, then the only offense is to the character and the writers telling the story, not EBR. If the question had been about Emily ruining the show, then I'd wholeheartedly agree with you.

Again, this would be much easier if we could see the interview where this all cropped up.

[JDBentz]

Oh, the other thing I was going to say.... I finally realized what is my big problem with Felicity. Put simply? She's the Ginny Weasley of the series. The supporting member who happens to be a fangirl of the hero, and her supporting cast role does a good job, but then she suddenly becomes an integral part of the character's story without any backstory for her. And we all know how JK Rowling now feels about pairing Harry with Ginny and Ron with Hermione instead of doing the Harry/Hermione pairing.

[Haggard01]

Something I thought up the other day is for some of how the Arrow writers seam to have been borrowing stuff from Twilight with Olicty. Well how long do think it's going to be before they introduce vampires?

[Haggard01]

In regards to this interview we've been discussing: Bkwurm1, you said it got reposted to YouTube? Any chance you provide a link? I think it would help those of us confused, such as Haggard and myself, if we could see what actually happened rather than getting it second/third hand. Because right now, even the way you worded it doesn't spell out trouble. Perhaps you never saw this, but during either the PaleyFest panel, or last year's SDCC panel, one of the people who was going to ask a question told Willa that he had been like "don't kill the mother" during 2x20 because he didn't like Thea's story arc during the first two seasons. I think she and Barrowman's tag-team embarrassed the guy.... but my point is that what you're asking people to provide has already happened, and they handled it with good humor. If the question was about the character ruining the show, then the only offense is to the character and the writers telling the story, not EBR. If the question had been about Emily ruining the show, then I'd wholeheartedly agree with you.

Again, this would be much easier if we could see the interview where this all cropped up.

I did some digging and so far have not found the interview. The only thing it said was the user of the account has been deleted. probably not the same person but I don't disregard any information.

So far haven't found it. not saying it isn't out there but on my research nothing.

[BkWurm1]

Perhaps you never saw this, but during either the PaleyFest panel, or last year's SDCC panel, one of the people who was going to ask a question told Willa that he had been like "don't kill the mother" during 2x20 because he didn't like Thea's story arc during the first two seasons.

He said he thought Thea was a brat but that he loved Thea now. And in the pause between Thea being a brat and that he loved her now, Will did not look happy nor did the rest of the cast.

And this was a FAN, not a interviewer. And he got ripped apart on line for being kind of a tool. And he did not imply Thea harmed let alone ruined the show.

It's not the same thing.

I did some digging and so far have not found the interview.

I hope that means they took it down from YouTube as well.

In regards to this interview we've been discussing: Bkwurm1, you said it got reposted to YouTube? Any chance you provide a link?

I know it was reposted because the message from TV Fanatic in the comments saying that this was a fake account and not posted by the interviewer and that they'd reached out to EBR and everything was cool and please let it go was copied and reposted but I only saw the interview before it was removed from TVFanatic. I had no interest in fueling the fire or adding more clicks to it.

Because right now, even the way you worded it doesn't spell out trouble.

That is very disappointing to hear.

[Dagenspear]

That is very disappointing to hear.

Because it's not actually offensive to the actress and you've realized that?

[JDBentz]

Bkwurm1: I'll be honest. This morning, I had to spend a long time creating my own YouTube video talking about how we live in a culture of offense, where any little thing can be considered offensive. Now, I personally enjoy our discussions here. You're quite intelligent and you put forth good arguments for your case, and they're well-written. I respect you on this.

But the fact is that the people who are on the show are public figures. They are going to be asked rude questions, and how they handle it reflects on them and the show. I wouldn't expect them to be all, "Okay, whatever" about their character being considered a reason for the show going downhill or the show being ruined; they're obviously going to feel something about it. But they know what they're signing on for. They know they're going to face a hell of a lot more scrutiny when they attend fan functions like this. Katie Cassidy has handled HOW MANY attacks on her character like this, or even more specifically herself? Sure, they don't come from interviewers a whole lot, but the way you phrased "interviewer" in quotations like that says you don't think they are one. Which then puts them in the position of blogger, which is more a 'fan' element then a 'news element'. We all know exactly what KC has faced from a rabid fanbase, and its a lot more widespread.

EBR, from both your description and the previous one, handled this with a decent amount of poise and even expressed a wish that you and I both agree on: that the writing for Felicity is better in Season 4. KC has done this in the past when her character was harangued and has gotten huge amounts of flack for it. I expressed a respect for EBR for handling this the way she did, when it was about her character and not herself, and you're disappointed that I don't see it as an attack? I think you need to consider whether you're defending EBR, or Felicity. Because at the moment, I'm seeing them as an actress and a fictional character. The actress has always impressed me with her own type of nerdness, but the character has gone downhill this season and even you have agreed that that happened. So why be offended or disappointed when I feel the question posed was a valid one?

Oh, and regarding the PaleyFest panel: Willa's reaction was "OMG" (actual words) and you had Barrowman going all Evil Dad and saying, "That's my daughter you're talking to." Maybe you saw things differently, but I saw them playing to the crowd, which is what all the cast have done before.

[evaba]

Bkwurm1: I'll be honest. This morning, I had to spend a long time creating my own YouTube video talking about how we live in a culture of offense, where any little thing can be considered offensive. Now, I personally enjoy our discussions here. You're quite intelligent and you put forth good arguments for your case, and they're well-written. I respect you on this.

But the fact is that the people who are on the show are public figures. They are going to be asked rude questions, and how they handle it reflects on them and the show. I wouldn't expect them to be all, "Okay, whatever" about their character being considered a reason for the show going downhill or the show being ruined; they're obviously going to feel something about it. But they know what they're signing on for. They know they're going to face a hell of a lot more scrutiny when they attend fan functions like this. Katie Cassidy has handled HOW MANY attacks on her character like this, or even more specifically herself? Sure, they don't come from interviewers a whole lot, but the way you phrased "interviewer" in quotations like that says you don't think they are one. Which then puts them in the position of blogger, which is more a 'fan' element then a 'news element'. We all know exactly what KC has faced from a rabid fanbase, and its a lot more widespread.

I agree that actors who are doing promotion at a convention like SDCC shouldn't be confronted with questions concerning negative audience opinions (because the interviewer didn't say that "Felicity's season three character portrayal ruined the show", she said that some FANS had this opinion, while others loved her) that may make them uncomfortable. However, I would still maintain that the reaction of the Olicity/Felicity/EBR fanbase to this short clip was exaggerated in relation to what was really said, and how EBR herself handled the question. EBR fans made TVFanatic take down the video, they forced Carissa Pavlica to shut down her twitter because of harassment, they bombarded the TVFanatic twitter with irate tweets asking for an official apology, they demanded that the journalist/blogger should be fired, and never get to interview any CW actors anymore etc.etc. In short, they acted the same way they always do when anyone suggests that Felicity's character portrayal is problematic, or that Olicity doesn't really contribute to a superhero origin story, or that it might even weigh it down....rather than accepting the criticism as a different view from their own or reply with their own arguments, they try to bully the dissenting voices into silence.

I'm saying this because such organized Oliciter social media campaigns are by no means isolated incidents, and this particular response didn't come about ONLY because a journalist was rude to EBR in a face to face situation. They resurface almost every time the Felicity/Olicity/EBR fanbase thinks that their fave is getting an unfavorable reception, which is basically anytime reviewers/journalists/bloggers etc. do not praise Felicity, Olicity and EBR in the way her fanbase believes she should be praised.

Especially on twitter the situation is getting ludicrous: there are Felicity/Olicity fans who systematically seek out more official #arrow twitter accounts with a sizeable following, and attack the tweeter in question whenever s/he posts anything that can be perceived as negative about Felicity, EBR or Olicity. This to me is a lack of respect for a person's freedom of expression, and a lack of understanding that not all viewers have to like a fictional character in a CW show just because she happens to have a large and avid online following. I know that these fans only represent a small minority, but they are numerous and active enough to have a pretty discernible and frankly annoying presence.

You are justifiably angry that EBR had a harsh truth told to her face, especially since her poor season three writing isn't her own fault. However, as JDBentz pointed out, EVERY actor has to be prepared to face criticism about her character and her storylines, or even about her own portrayal of that character...that is a part of the job. If Felicity has a bad season, or if fans/reviewers feel that EBR gives a less than satisfying portrayal of her character, there shouldn't be a ban on criticism just because her FANS won't tolerate criticism and will use any means available (mocking of individual site owners, twitter anti- campaigns, petitions to the CW that certain journalists should lose access to the CW etc.) against critical voices.

This kind of behavior is IMHO not acceptable, and I actually think it is an embarrassment for Emily to have such an entitled, intrusive and frankly cultish fanbase. Furthermore when it comes from certain notorious Oliciter fandom BNFs, who spend an inordinate amount of time campaigning against (or "hating") Katie Cassidy online, it becomes downright hypocritical. When the very same fans who encouraged John Campea's bashing/strong critique of Laurel (which continued for months, both on his show and on twitter) become consumed with indignation and self-righteous wrath whenever Felicity/EBR is subjected to even mild criticism, it's hard not to see the hypocrisy and double standards. The fact that Campea didn't bash Laurel to Katie's face is irrelevant in this discussion, for the mere reason that IF he had talked the same way about Felicity, the Felicity/Olicity/EBR fans would have reacted in a VERY different manner...in fact, they would have raised a *beep* storm (pardon my French!).

I think it is actually this blatant hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to character criticism that many of us are reacting against concerning the TVFanatic debacle, and not the fandom response itself, which in this case was justified (although exaggerated).

I guess what I want to say is that if Laurel/Katie Cassidy is fair game, so is Felicity/EBR, and the sooner EBR learns this, the better. She can't forever live in the (former) fan favorite/break out character cocoon of online love, especially not when she moves on to other projects in her career where the character she portrays might get a quite different reception from reviewers and fans.

In general I don't understand how every critique against Felicity or the Oliver/Felicity romance is blown out of proportion by her fanbase, who cannot seem to tolerate that people in official media (journalists, reviewers etc.) have a differing opinion about Felicity or the O/F relationship. I do think most of her fans accept that other fans have differing opinions, but when it comes to the more official discourse, there seems to be this demand that Felicity/EBR should somehow get special treatment, and I frankly don't understand why. If Felicity isn't featured in a video about CW's masked heroes there is a ruckus, and if the Original Trio isn't revered enough on a poster, there is another uproar. Some people in the comment section to the TVFanatic video clip demand an official apology and that the reporter should get fired, which to me seems like a pretty exaggerated reaction. Yes, EBR got a rude question at a SDCC interview, and she handled it very well. It's not the end of the world, and I really don't see the need for such strong measures.

Laurel Lance fans complain a lot as well (about real or imagined slights), but I think the Felicity/Olicity fanbase is even more vigilant. In fact, I can't help but feel that there is a constant demand for attention which is frankly rather exaggerated, if we consider that Felicity is in reality just another supporting character.

[dreamsofnever]

Personally, I thought the question was rude and inappropriate and I did feel bad for Emily when watching the interview. But she handled it with poise and the interview moved on from there. I do think that the fandom's reaction to the interview was over the top.

To answer the original OP's question: No, you're not the only person who disagrees with the Olicity pairing. But unfortunately, that is where the writers decided to take the story so I suppose the best we can hope for is that it's handled better next season.