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Why would Eobard cease to exist?

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  • Why would Eobard cease to exist?

    Help me understand something.
    Why would Eobard disappear and be taken from the time line if Eddie kills him self?

    Would the Eobard we see week to week not be one that exists in a timeline where Eddie does exist?

    The way I see it is Eddie killing him self just prevents future Eobard from being born in that timeline and has nothing to do with the Eobard we know who is in the timeline of future Barry in the alternate universe.

  • #2
    If they're working from one timeline, with loops in it, it still works.

    If they're working from multiple timelines that have affect on each other, it still works.

    The question isn't whether or not it works. The question is whether or not Cisco's line about the existence of an "alternate timeline" is enough to shoot all other theories down.

    I don't think it is, but they are playing a little fast and loose.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
      If they're working from one timeline, with loops in it, it still works.

      If they're working from multiple timelines that have affect on each other, it still works.

      The question isn't whether or not it works. The question is whether or not Cisco's line about the existence of an "alternate timeline" is enough to shoot all other theories down.

      I don't think it is, but they are playing a little fast and loose.
      Actually, in the movie script by the showrunners, the one that never got made.

      Eobard came back in time, lost his powers since Barry wasn't yet the Flash, therefore built a particle accelerator at Star Labs as a means of getting back home by utilising Barry's speed when he became The Flash, and as a double twist, the acellerator would STILL go belly up and destroy the Earth even after Eobard got home. (Which is EXACTLY the cliffhanger we are left with in sn 1)

      In the script, it was explicitly stated that Eobard was from a DIFFERENT timeline to everyone else currently around him. Since THAT script was made by the same showrunners who do the tv show, and the premise of the TV show (Eobard wanting to get back home) even using the exact same method is the same as in THAT script. Then it is now a GIVEN that the RF in the TV show was EXPLICITLY from a different reality.

      As such Eddie's death SHOULD have meant nothing to THAT RF, given that THAT Eddie was not his ancestor.

      The outline of the film script by The Flash's tv showrunners can be found here.



      The tv show, and the script, they are practically the same.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes that has a lot to do with my confusion. As that's what I linked to in the spoiler section months ago. How they did it with Eobard could explain why at the moment of Nora's death future flash disappeared. I still feel Eobard shouldn't have been affected by eddies death.

        Comment


        • #5
          Unless the showrunners linked it to the comic idea at one point that Eobard was severed from all timelines and became a living paradox. That could make sense... since Eobard had to be there to threaten everything in order for Eddie to sacrifice himself. Eobard dissolving may have just been him going back into the timestream just to coalesce some time else.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by speople

            The tv show, and the script, they are practically the same.
            From Pages 109 and 110 of the Flash movie script:

            THAWNE
            You’re an understanding fellow.
            I’m only trying to get home again.
            After you trapped me here.

            THE FLASH
            I’ve never even met you.

            THAWNE
            Oh, we have quite the history, you
            and I. Old friends. In another
            draft of reality, I siphoned your
            speed, just as I did here. I
            wasn’t like you, I wasn’t picked.

            EXT. ROCKY MOUNTAIN FOOTHILLS - DAY (FLASHBACK)
            Another world. Another universe. A YOUNGER THAWNE (with his metal insignia) trades speed-punches with THE FLASH.
            But not our Flash. His crimson suit brighter, metallic.

            THAWNE (V.O.)
            ...I had to take it. From you. I
            worked miracles, I had everything.
            You tried to stop me...

            An epic fight. And chase. So fast reality begins to
            unravel around them. Energy rippling off of this Flash
            like air around a nosecone.
            UNTIL THEY ENTER THE SPEED FORCE -- TOGETHER!

            THAWNE (V.O.)
            ...You were always so damn fast --
            you ripped the wall open and ran
            right into the Speed Force... with
            me drafting in your wake.

            The Flash is too fast. Thawne can’t keep up -- and FALLS
            -- TUMBLING OUT OF THE SPEED FORCE.

            INT. ACCELERATOR - RESUMING


            THAWNE
            I fell out of the stream and ended
            up here. My speed draining,
            bleeding away. Stranding me in a
            world where you were still a boy
            and hadn’t yet inherited speed for
            me to steal. So I had to wait...
            prepare. I built this Accelerator
            so I could make my way home...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by speople
              Actually, in the movie script by the showrunners, the one that never got made.

              Eobard came back in time, lost his powers since Barry wasn't yet the Flash, therefore built a particle accelerator at Star Labs as a means of getting back home by utilising Barry's speed when he became The Flash, and as a double twist, the acellerator would STILL go belly up and destroy the Earth even after Eobard got home. (Which is EXACTLY the cliffhanger we are left with in sn 1).
              From pages 112 and 113 of The Flash movie script:

              THE FLASH
              I have to stop it --

              IRIS
              How? How do you unwind a black
              hole?

              THE FLASH
              Same way you unwind a tornado.

              She reaches up, pulls his mask off. Wanting to look into
              his eyes for the last time.


              THE FLASH
              There are a million universes, you
              know. I’ve loved you in every
              single one of them.

              Barry looks to the expanding black hole whirling high
              above... Makes a decision. He puts his mask back on.

              He takes off! Speeding around the Track, up the WALLS --
              Until he’s racing at the top of the Tower, against the
              black hole’s spiral... just like he unwound the tornado.

              EXT. CENTRAL CITY

              Atoms tear off people -- cars -- buildings -- PULLED
              towards the Tower -- nuclear blast force.


              INT/EXT. ACCELERATOR TOWER - THAT MOMENT

              WITH THE FLASH -- RUNNING -- straining -- pushing himself
              to the limits of possibility.

              LIGHTNING flies in his wake -- earth-shattering. Pieces
              of his suit -- his flesh -- disintegrate off like dust.

              He’s being pulled, bit by bit, into the black hole --
              even as he runs. GLOWING. BRIGHTER with each stride.

              THE BLACK HOLE BEGINS TO DISSIPATE.

              He’s doing it! Moving so fast, the laws of relativity
              take over -- breaking down his body -- stretching him
              thin. But still running. Fans of the comic know:


              The Flash doesn’t survive moments like these.

              Comment


              • #8
                I hated it because it doesn't make sense. As long as a person exists in a timeline in the past they cannot be erased. It would only work if you return to the future since everything would be changed there. The only explaination I could think of is it's the universe or time correcting itself and merging timelines together, but even that is a little bit far fetched, unless of course it's because of the wormhole that connected the timelines together.
                Last edited by vexedrelic; 05-20-2015, 07:55 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  @ Xum, Sozzled

                  Clearly, in Eobard's case, the producers have taken a few liberties with their own script. They KNOW that ET/HW should NOT have been affected, but regardless, did the opposite anyway, makes for good tv for a less discerning audience but makes a massive plot hole for a more discerning one. Barry will survive of course, imo Rip Hunter will come and save the day, which will be a good way to introduce LoT.

                  ET/HW being affected by Eddie's death is a plot point to pick up and file in the same drawer as the HW/RF scenes in ep 9, which we'll also never get a proper explanation for.
                  Last edited by speople; 05-20-2015, 08:12 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by speople

                    ET/HW being affected by Eddie's death is a plot point to pick up and file in the same drawer as the HW/RF scenes in ep 9, which we'll also never get a proper explanation for.
                    Perhaps... or they might be dealing with it "now" and at the start of Season 2. I am keen to believe that the sudden emergence of the singularity (which occurred immediately after RF was erased) is the timestream's way of erasing this show's timeline, since it was created by Reverse Flash's actions 15 years prior...

                    We shall see...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Xum Yukinori
                      Perhaps... or they might be dealing with it "now" and at the start of Season 2. I am keen to believe that the sudden emergence of the singularity (which occurred immediately after RF was erased) is the timestream's way of erasing this show's timeline, since it was created by Reverse Flash's actions 15 years prior...

                      We shall see...
                      In a way, you're thinking just a little too small there. RF didn't just create an alternate timeline when he got stuck in the past, he created an entire universe along with it. The singularity won't eat up that, just as the few discovered singularities out there that astronomers have discovered of 12 billion and upwards solar masses haven't "eaten" our universe. The show's singularity, is, by comparison, practically microscopic.

                      In the tv show, just as in the non made film, Eobard rigged the "experiment" so that after he was "gone" by whatever means, the wormhole would re-open anyway nd devour the planet. Exacting his final and fatal revenge on Barry and everyone else. (I'm sure I read that in the script).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The movie script is all fine and dandy, but this isn't the movie. It's the show. I still think it might not be that RF is from an alternate timeline. Going by what I saw in the show, someone can go to the past and make changes that affect the future. Take the newspaper article for example. If Wells/Thawne is from an alternate timeline, whatever he did he shouldn't affect that paper since that paper isn't from the timeline he's changing things in.

                        Unless as BG stated the timelines can affect each other. If that's the case, okay cool.


                        I always post when I haven't slept for a while, I probably shouldn't even be trying to debate this at all

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sozzeled
                          Yes that has a lot to do with my confusion. As that's what I linked to in the spoiler section months ago. How they did it with Eobard could explain why at the moment of Nora's death future flash disappeared. I still feel Eobard shouldn't have been affected by eddies death.
                          Future Barry DIDN'T disappear !!

                          Future Barry, the one with the white emblem, he is STILL in his OWN timeline. A timeline where his mother (probably) remained alive. Going back in time created an alternate reality, and as soon as Barry left it to go to his own time again, he crossed from the newly created reality and back into his own. That's why Eobard was stuck, there wasn't a speedforce in the NEW reality yet or a SF so weak it left him virtually powerless.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kaleltheking
                            The movie script is all fine and dandy, but this isn't the movie. It's the show. I still think it might not be that RF is from an alternate timeline. Going by what I saw in the show, someone can go to the past and make changes that affect the future. Take the newspaper article for example. If Wells/Thawne is from an alternate timeline, whatever he did he shouldn't affect that paper since that paper isn't from the timeline he's changing things in.

                            Unless as BG stated the timelines can affect each other. If that's the case, okay cool.


                            I always post when I haven't slept for a while, I probably shouldn't even be trying to debate this at all
                            The tv show is a 23 ep adapation of the movie script with a lot of filler thrown in to flesh out a couple of hours movie into such a timespan. Most of the main elements have been left in. eg

                            Eobard going to the past, getting stranded, building an accelerator at Star Labs, needing Barry's speed to get back home, STILL creating a singularity even after he has "gone".

                            In his original reality, he didn't create The Flash. In the NEW reality, he had to, and in fact did so with years to spare. The Eddie in that reality can therefore NOT be his ancestor.

                            As for the paper, oh but it IS from this reality. Blackout changed the future once in the Power Outage ep, and the paper duly changed. ET/HW had nothing to do with that particular change.

                            If one is going to say that all the timelines are interconnected so that what happens in one affects the others as well, then white circle Barry should have also got his powers at the same time as his counterpart, but he didn't. And Nora and Cisco would die in every reality as well. In effect, if a change in one affects all, then there AREN'T ANY alternate realities, there is only ever 1.

                            That is clearly NOT the case with the TV show, and has been shown to not be the case as well. Therefore THAT Eddie's death should therefore NOT affect THAT RF.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Xum Yukinori
                              Perhaps... or they might be dealing with it "now" and at the start of Season 2. I am keen to believe that the sudden emergence of the singularity (which occurred immediately after RF was erased) is the timestream's way of erasing this show's timeline, since it was created by Reverse Flash's actions 15 years prior...

                              We shall see...

                              Originally posted by speople
                              In a way, you're thinking just a little too small there. RF didn't just create an alternate timeline when he got stuck in the past, he created an entire universe along with it. The singularity won't eat up that, just as the few discovered singularities out there that astronomers have discovered of 12 billion and upwards solar masses haven't "eaten" our universe. The show's singularity, is, by comparison, practically microscopic.

                              In the tv show, just as in the non made film, Eobard rigged the "experiment" so that after he was "gone" by whatever means, the wormhole would re-open anyway nd devour the planet. Exacting his final and fatal revenge on Barry and everyone else. (I'm sure I read that in the script).

                              Thats what im thinking but everyone keeps calling it a singularity and getting all scientific with singularities in our world.. this is a fictional place, and we dont know that its the same singularity they were referring to in the particle accelerator becuase well for one it never formed in the particle accelerator. I'm betting its time collapsing on itself and resetting because everything in the timeline now will be different

                              Comment

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