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What I don't like about the latest OUAT season

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  • What I don't like about the latest OUAT season

    The cliche villains verses heroes bit, and the cliche "you got a evil label so your destined to end badly" bit. Earlier seasons, they had characters with a bit of complexity and depth, like real people. For Gold to suddenly decide to be a cliche villain was just...

    Then he recruits "super villains" that don't make any sense at all. Malevolent wasn't really evil, if you go by the movie named after her, and that movie showed a nicely complex character lost here. If you go by the old Disney Sleeping beauty movie, she is dead. Cruela Devil was just a stupid inept rich person with a obsession for fur, who lived on earth! She is also a shallow 2 dimensional character in 101 Dalmatians, with absolutely no skills or superpowers! She also has a dumb name (some might call it "clever", not me) Ursula was killed in Little mermaid, also she's a octopus lady who wouldn't be meeting up with others on land much.

    All this turned me off from continuing to watch OUAT, but the clincher was when I tuned in for a moment and it happened to be a very badly written plot point playing right then. Golds ex-girlfriend was talking to Hook, for some reason (which I didn't see, but was probably very dumb and contrived) she felt like she couldn't hold onto the dagger, that she had to give it away to Hook. Then Hook suggests she command Gold through the Dagger to appear before her, to test if he was really still gone. Now they all know that magic users can appear as someone else through their magic, since it's happened so many times already. What she doesn't know, is if she can even command Gold through the Dagger, without him being present to hear the command. So right off the bat, its a inconclusive test, even aside from the trick.

    Again, she knows that magic users can appear as anyone, if she suspects Gold is back, she has to be a real dumbass to not consider the possibility of him being in disguise as someone else. Here's a thought, command him to appear before her and tell her exactly what he is up to. Oh, but then the plot point would have fallen though, with her having the dagger, what can he do? This whole nonsense happened exactly so that Gold can get back the Dagger, and actually be a threat. Though they could have done it in many other, better ways.

    Once I saw that, I confirmed my leanings to give up the series.

  • #2
    * From what I remember that was Rumple disguised as Hook to get the dagger. Hook has proven he can be trust worthy. That was why Belle did what she did.
    * The good versus evil is not cliche imo. It is a continuation of a key plot point in the wonderland spinoff. The spinoff looked at the idea of changing the laws of magic, the idea of changing fate is key part of the Wonderland plot and this season's plot. I would love to see the magic well from the wonderland plot somehow in an attempt to fix Emma.

    This is just my opinion but I would rate the seasons of Once Upon a Time as follows

    Season 1: A. Great start with awesome characters.
    Season 2: C-. The sophomore slump. The low point being the reunion of Neal and Emma as well as August being erased from resistance.
    Season 3: C. Another mediocure season. It's saving grace was Outlaw Queen and Regina's redemption.
    Season 4: B. The band-aid season. We got back August, we got the mermaid story we were denied with Once's Ariel, Hook became enjoyable, and we finally have hope that Belle and Rumplstilskin will find a happy ending together.
    Last edited by Degobunny; 05-17-2015, 08:14 PM.

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    • #3
      Yes, I know it was Gold disguised as Hook. But as I pointed out, who in that town doesn't know that magic users can disguise themselves as other people, especially Belle of all people. And if she suspected Gold of being in town, then she should have absolutely considered for the possibility that anyone she might talk to be him in disguise. So for her to only command through the dagger that Gold appear before her, and nothing more, was the height of stupidity on her part, and bad story writing. And whether she trusts Hook or not, or trusts Gold to not pretend to be Hook through magic, there was no need for her to give up the dagger in the first place.

      "Fate" is lazy story telling too. And fate or no, "good verses evil" IS absolutely cliche and bad story telling. Someone goes "I am evil, so I will do evil things to live up to my label, Muahahahahaha!" give me a break. Give us some actual thought out motivations.
      Last edited by truepurple; 05-17-2015, 08:19 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by truepurple
        Yes, I know it was Gold disguised as Hook. But as I pointed out, who in that town doesn't know that magic users can disguise themselves as other people, especially Belle of all people. And if she suspected Gold of being in town, then she should have absolutely considered for the possibility that anyone she might talk to be him in disguise. So for her to only command through the dagger that Gold appear before her, and nothing more, was the height of stupidity on her part, and bad story writing. And whether she trusts Hook or not, or trusts Gold to not pretend to be Hook through magic, there was no need for her to give up the dagger in the first place.

        "Fate" is lazy story telling too. And fate or no, "good verses evil" IS absolutely cliche and bad story telling. Someone goes "I am evil, so I will do evil things to live up to my label, Muahahahahaha!" give me a break. Give us some actual thought out motivations.
        No one said that mwhahahaha thing at all.

        The whole idea of the good versus evil is that some people no matter how hard they try end falling prey to evil because they see it as there only option to get what they want. So it is there fate to not get what they want when they destroy others in attempt to get what they desire. Even the good guys fell to this as the Charmings had to deal with the consequences of messing with Emma and Lily's capacity for good and evil. And look at the result, Emma is now the dark one. Bottom line I don't see fate as lazy writing when it is used to define all characters. Especially now that one component of the fate, the fake part dictated by the author is gone now.

        Belle is naive about Rumplestilskin and his capacity for evil. The way I see it her giving the dagger away was her trying to let go and move on. Of course that planned failed when she realized Rumplestilskin was dying.
        Last edited by Degobunny; 05-19-2015, 10:01 AM.

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        • #5
          And is Emma "evil" now that she is the "dark one"? (keep in mind, I haven't been watching it for reasons already explained) Or do the writers realise that people aren't just good or evil or some sliding scale between these two things. When you talk about messing with capacity of good or evil, that suggests to me bad story telling, of limited thinking regarding human motivation, drive and free will. And if she's flipped from good to evil, then it's just a soap opera.

          If she thought Gold was so saintly as to never do anything wrong, then there would be no meaning to ordering him to leave the town, or ordering him to appear before her. If she thinks that Gold is less then perfectly saintly and possibly in the town, then knowing that magic users can easily disguise themselves as other people, she majorly failed in basic reasoning. Golds "clever" plan hinged on her being very stupid. Besides, how would having the dagger not let her move on if Gold wasn't in the town?

          P.S. I never said anyone said Muahaha, but that's basically how OUAT has shown evil characters most of the time. Like being evil was a important objective for anyone with that label, being evil, for evils sake. Like the cartoon or Power rangers villain who's constantly trying to defeat the protagonists, but often don't have anything particular they want to do after they ever win. Destroy or maybe conquer the world, is about as deep as it goes. They actually get depressed or angry if they are told they aren't living up to the evil ideals.
          Last edited by truepurple; 05-19-2015, 12:17 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by truepurple
            And is Emma "evil" now that she is the "dark one"? (keep in mind, I haven't been watching it for reasons already explained) Or do the writers realise that people aren't just good or evil or some sliding scale between these two things. When you talk about messing with capacity of good or evil, that suggests to me bad story telling, of limited thinking regarding human motivation, drive and free will. And if she's flipped from good to evil, then it's just a soap opera.

            If she thought Gold was so saintly as to never do anything wrong, then there would be no meaning to ordering him to leave the town, or ordering him to appear before her. If she thinks that Gold is less then perfectly saintly and possibly in the town, then knowing that magic users can easily disguise themselves as other people, she majorly failed in basic reasoning. Golds "clever" plan hinged on her being very stupid. Besides, how would having the dagger not let her move on if Gold wasn't in the town?

            P.S. I never said anyone said Muahaha, but that's basically how OUAT has shown evil characters most of the time. Like being evil was a important objective for anyone with that label, being evil, for evils sake. Like the cartoon or Power rangers villain who's constantly trying to defeat the protagonists, but often don't have anything particular they want to do after they ever win. Destroy or maybe conquer the world, is about as deep as it goes. They actually get depressed or angry if they are told they aren't living up to the evil ideals.
            I think throwing everything into a box of being a shade of grey is limiting, because there is actual good and evil out there. The Once have proven all there characters are capable of good and evil. Yes Emma is now the Dark One. It is not a weak storyline either. Emma sacrificed herself for the greater good to trap the dark one as it could no longer be tethered to Rumplestilskin. And yes the charmings wanted to insure Emma would grow up to be good and so some sort of spell placed upon Emma while she still in the womb that would give her good karma to become a good savior. The price was Malificents daughter getting all the bad karma. So no matter what Lily did try to fix her life she always end up doing bad things.

            I think with magic involved trying to apply real world logic on this show is a lost cause.

            If you didn't mean the mwhahaha thing then why did you mention it. I understand if you think the villians lack proper real world motivation though I would say you are wrong. Even Cruella who was a psychopath had her moments of humanity.

            As far as Belle. The dagger was a symbol of Gold and what had come between them. His lust for power as the dark one. I know if I had been Belle I would have wanted that thing far away from me. How would have Belle been able to move on when the dagger which might as well be the ghost of Rumplestilskin always there lingering in the back of her mind, Sand having to check to make sure it's still safe periodically. At least by giving it to Hook she wouldn't have to worry about someone taking it. Belle is niave not stupid, that is where I draw the line. Stupid implies she is mentally incapacitated, which she is not. No, she naive because she trust others at face value and always has even in the movie. Her downfall when she returned to her father was trusting Gaston to do the right thing and help her keep her father from the insane asylum. Instead he leads a lynch mob to the castle with the Beast, that Belle for all intensive purposes told him exactly how to find with the mirror.

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            • #7
              You didn't answer the question, is Emma "evil" now? Telling me she is the dark one, does not answer that question. What evil deed has she done or plans to do? And why has she done this evil deed, or plan to do it? (again, saying she is the dark one, does not answer the question) And no, shades of gray is not at all limiting, unless done badly. Alot easier to do "good" and "evil" badly than shades of gray.

              yes the charmings wanted to insure Emma would grow up to be good and so some sort of spell placed upon Emma while she still in the womb that would give her good karma to become a good savior. The price was Malificents daughter getting all the bad karma.
              I would point out that Emma was relatively bad growing up. It's why she has her thief skills.

              This stinks of the whole western concept of yin and yang (which is not the same as the original chinese meaning) where good can not exist without evil and visa versa. It's pure BS but so ingrained in many mainstream content, especially fairy tale stuff. It also preempts free will, just like the "I got your muscle for pumping blood, you must do as I say (and not because you fear death, but literally have no choice)" bit. and perfectly fits in with the crappy fate bit, which also preempts free will a bit.

              Belle is niave not stupid
              So she naively trusted Gold to not pretend to be someone else to the point where she couldn't be bothered to say a few extra words to test it? If she was that naive, she wouldn't have ordered him to leave the town in the first place, or tried to incompletely test if he was still in town.
              Last edited by truepurple; 05-20-2015, 03:44 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by truepurple
                Malevolent wasn't really evil, if you go by the movie named after her, and that movie showed a nicely complex character lost here.
                I'm sorry, but: I could not stop laughing after reading this. Thanks for that

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