View Poll Results: What did you think?

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40. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10 - Fantastic Finale

    14 35.00%
  • 9

    2 5.00%
  • 8

    3 7.50%
  • 7

    5 12.50%
  • 6

    2 5.00%
  • 5

    2 5.00%
  • 4

    2 5.00%
  • 3

    4 10.00%
  • 2

    2 5.00%
  • 1 - Meh. That was it?

    4 10.00%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    While it was good to see that Felicity showed some ingenuity with a 'third' option to save Ollie, the impression it left me once the deed was done was as you described. They may not have had the intention of making Felicity appear so consumed with saving Ollie that she would want Ray to set aside the whole "for the greater good" mission, drop everything, to Hades with city and its many lives, and go save Ollie -- but this is the impression they created with the whole scene. (I'm not even counting the big stretch in credibility needed to accept Felicity being proficient in use of the ATOM suit in so little time when Ray couldn't get it right the first time.)

    If it were any other supporting character who did this -- Laurel, Thea, whoever -- the fandom would be all over his/her behaviour, seemingly selfish instincts, etc. But it's ok when Felicity does it, because she loves him, he loves her and the only way Ollie can truly become GA is with her faith in him and love, and apparently only hers ... and Diggle and team's nearly identical advice be damned.
    Earlier in the season when it became clear Thea killed Sara I thought it was ridiculous and thought of her as Super Thea. It was pure entertainment at Christmas time, i admit but still

    Now they've taken Felicity to a new level. She should be given the part as Super Girl since she can do everything imaginable.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    On a lighter note: the Mayor of Starling City is a position that is marked for death after three seasons. Any candidate must be given the 411 that the odds are good anyone from street gangs, the Russian Bratva, a messianic league of killers, an unhinged lone wolf, metahumans with an axe to grind or possibly even local vigilantes under mind control/hallucinogenics may be gunning for you. Quentin must let out a sigh of frustration whenever election time rolls around: "Time to prep the morgue, people. All leaves are cancelled. We're getting a new mayor. "
    "Also, it's late March, early April."

    Actually, maybe Oliver would be a good mayor. He could keep his skills sharp by simply staying alive against all assassination attempts, while doing whatever mayors do in TV land

  2. #62
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    I haven't had the opportunity to watch the season finale until a few days ago, but now that I have, I could even say that Olicity might be the least offensive part of this godawful soap of an episode.

    When I compare the last two seasons, and the last two season finales, it feels as though Guggenheim and company have turn "Arrow" into something else, namely an ugly, botched travesty of this show that I used to love. The writing, the editing, the acting and almost everything else have just about lost most of it's subtlety, and even the melodrama that I used to like is totally lacking in pathos and suspense.

    I mean, just consider the difference between the climactic roof top fight between Ollie and season one Malcolm, and the totally underwhelming Oliver/Ra's fight near the dam. Compare the heart-wrenching moment when Oliver is talking to a dying Tommy, and the supposedly deep emotional moments in this season finale.

    Am I the only one who felt like the actors were just going through the motions in this ep, struggling with a hopeless script, which was marred by an uncomfortable mix of supposedly lighthearted lines/scenes (Barry's lines when he flew in to Nanda Parbat to save the day, Felicity almost heartless comment about Ollie's and Nyssa's honeymoon, the incredibly cheesy moment when Felicity donned Ray's suit and saved Oliver's life) and pompous lines about heroic endeavors and identity crises? If the theme of the season has to be spelled out by the actors in stilted dialogues (at the end of the season, to boot, when it should already have been sufficiently conveyed by the ongoing action), there must be something fundamentally wrong with the screen writers' skills.

    And don't get me going on the lack of continuity and backward connections: apparently Laurel has gone from a woman that even in season two was acknowledged as someone who was still a crucial person in Oliver's life to someone he now doesn't count among the important people in his life (who in this retcon are ONLY the two other members of the oliciter OTA), and who he doesn't even say goodbye to when he supposedly leaves Starling city for good (at least not on screen). I have to admit that I find it hard to respect a writing team who themselves show so little respect for the relationships they built up during two seasons. And why didn't Oliver mention TOMMY or his own father when he told Merlyn about the deaths he couldn't forget? Has the show undergone such a transformation that we're not supposed to remember important people in the past?

    Considering the horror that was the season three finale, I think that Oliver and Felicity riding into the sunset must be considered a minor offense. After all, it was a fitting resolution to the romance arc that begun in "The Calm". However, if the writing continues to be this crappy in season four, I don't know if even the shippers can save the show...unless this season's viewers have very different tastes from mine.

    I'm sorry about the ranting, but it really comes from a place of love. I guess I'm just still in shock how Guggenheim managed to drive this once fine superhero show to the ground, something which really hit me when I watched the episode which according to Gugs himself would be the crowning aspect of the whole season.

    I have seen the critiques of this ep, and I suspected it to be bad, but I couldn't imagine that it would leave me so disappointed on so many levels. So, the problem is not just the romance and how it has altered the storytelling...it's just about everything conceivable: the plotting, the pacing, the acting, the ability to mix meaningful drama and kickass action...I could go on and on, but I'll have to stop here.

  3. #63
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I haven't had the opportunity to watch the season finale until a few days ago, but now that I have, I could even say that Olicity might be the least offensive part of this godawful soap of an episode.

    When I compare the last two seasons, and the last two season finales, it feels as though Guggenheim and company have turn "Arrow" into something else, namely an ugly, botched travesty of this show that I used to love. The writing, the editing, the acting and almost everything else have just about lost most of it's subtlety, and even the melodrama that I used to like is totally lacking in pathos and suspense.

    I mean, just consider the difference between the climactic roof top fight between Ollie and season one Malcolm, and the totally underwhelming Oliver/Ra's fight near the dam. Compare the heart-wrenching moment when Oliver is talking to a dying Tommy, and the supposedly deep emotional moments in this season finale.

    Am I the only one who felt like the actors were just going through the motions in this ep, struggling with a hopeless script, which was marred by an uncomfortable mix of supposedly lighthearted lines/scenes (Barry's lines when he flew in to Nanda Parbat to save the day, Felicity almost heartless comment about Ollie's and Nyssa's honeymoon, the incredibly cheesy moment when Felicity donned Ray's suit and saved Oliver's life) and pompous lines about heroic endeavors and identity crises? If the theme of the season has to be spelled out by the actors in stilted dialogues (at the end of the season, to boot, when it should already have been sufficiently conveyed by the ongoing action), there must be something fundamentally wrong with the screen writers' skills.

    And don't get me going on the lack of continuity and backward connections: apparently Laurel has gone from a woman that even in season two was acknowledged as someone who was still a crucial person in Oliver's life to someone he now doesn't count among the important people in his life (who in this retcon are ONLY the two other members of the oliciter OTA), and who he doesn't even say goodbye to when he supposedly leaves Starling city for good (at least not on screen). I have to admit that I find it hard to respect a writing team who themselves show so little respect for the relationships they built up during two seasons. And why didn't Oliver mention TOMMY or his own father when he told Merlyn about the deaths he couldn't forget? Has the show undergone such a transformation that we're not supposed to remember important people in the past?

    Considering the horror that was the season three finale, I think that Oliver and Felicity riding into the sunset must be considered a minor offense. After all, it was a fitting resolution to the romance arc that begun in "The Calm". However, if the writing continues to be this crappy in season four, I don't know if even the shippers can save the show...unless this season's viewers have very different tastes from mine.

    I'm sorry about the ranting, but it really comes from a place of love. I guess I'm just still in shock how Guggenheim managed to drive this once fine superhero show to the ground, something which really hit me when I watched the episode which according to Gugs himself would be the crowning aspect of the whole season.

    I have seen the critiques of this ep, and I suspected it to be bad, but I couldn't imagine that it would leave me so disappointed on so many levels. So, the problem is not just the romance and how it has altered the storytelling...it's just about everything conceivable: the plotting, the pacing, the acting, the ability to mix meaningful drama and kickass action...I could go on and on, but I'll have to stop here.
    I wasn't going to bother watch season 4, and then I found out the front half of the season is going to be used to set up the new spinoff show, so I guess I'll give it a go. I would imagine the whole bring Sara back to life will happen on Arrow. Maybe they will have to draw straws to see who has to tell Captain Lance his dead daughter is alive ... again.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    I wasn't going to bother watch season 4, and then I found out the front half of the season is going to be used to set up the new spinoff show, so I guess I'll give it a go. I would imagine the whole bring Sara back to life will happen on Arrow. Maybe they will have to draw straws to see who has to tell Captain Lance his dead daughter is alive ... again.
    The first half of the season? That's ridiculous!

    You may as well call Arrow the prop up show.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    I wasn't going to bother watch season 4, and then I found out the front half of the season is going to be used to set up the new spinoff show, so I guess I'll give it a go. I would imagine the whole bring Sara back to life will happen on Arrow. Maybe they will have to draw straws to see who has to tell Captain Lance his dead daughter is alive ... again.
    Source on that as I haven't read that anywhere.

  6. #66
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipzo View Post
    Source on that as I haven't read that anywhere.
    http://www.craveonline.com/comics/in...-jonas-quantum At the end of the interview Marc G. Talks about L.O.T., saying much of the story and many of the questions about the show will be answered on Flash and Arrow before LOT premiers, I take that to mean the existing shows will be used to set up L.O.T., how could they not???
    Last edited by Carmine-Infantino; 05-18-2015 at 06:11 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    http://www.craveonline.com/comics/in...-jonas-quantum At the end of the interview Marc G. Talks about L.O.T., saying much of the story and many of the questions about the show will be answered on Flash and Arrow before LOT premiers, I take that to mean the existing shows will be used to set up L.O.T., how could they not???
    I don't look at what they said as that they would be using the entire front half of the season to be setting up the LoT. I read that much more as they will be revealing certain storylines amongst both shows which put those characters on their correct paths.
    If I had to guess I would be saying Lotz will come back on Arrow, Palmer will be getting more screen time on Arrow and probably a couple of cross-overs with Flash where he starts helping them out both with tech and money now that they won't have ET/HW helping them.
    Then on the other side of the coin I would be expecting to see the Firestorm aspect beginning to be explored much deeper on Flash, probably some Hawkgirl teasing and a small team up along with Hatwave/Cold episodes to show them as not complete maniacs.

    I'm also expecting that the mid-season finale for Flash and Arrow will be a cross-over episode which will concentrate on setting up all the members of LoT coming together for their team up.

  8. #68
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I haven't had the opportunity to watch the season finale until a few days ago, but now that I have, I could even say that Olicity might be the least offensive part of this godawful soap of an episode.

    When I compare the last two seasons, and the last two season finales, it feels as though Guggenheim and company have turn "Arrow" into something else, namely an ugly, botched travesty of this show that I used to love. The writing, the editing, the acting and almost everything else have just about lost most of it's subtlety, and even the melodrama that I used to like is totally lacking in pathos and suspense.

    I mean, just consider the difference between the climactic roof top fight between Ollie and season one Malcolm, and the totally underwhelming Oliver/Ra's fight near the dam. Compare the heart-wrenching moment when Oliver is talking to a dying Tommy, and the supposedly deep emotional moments in this season finale.

    Am I the only one who felt like the actors were just going through the motions in this ep, struggling with a hopeless script, which was marred by an uncomfortable mix of supposedly lighthearted lines/scenes (Barry's lines when he flew in to Nanda Parbat to save the day, Felicity almost heartless comment about Ollie's and Nyssa's honeymoon, the incredibly cheesy moment when Felicity donned Ray's suit and saved Oliver's life) and pompous lines about heroic endeavors and identity crises? If the theme of the season has to be spelled out by the actors in stilted dialogues (at the end of the season, to boot, when it should already have been sufficiently conveyed by the ongoing action), there must be something fundamentally wrong with the screen writers' skills.

    And don't get me going on the lack of continuity and backward connections: apparently Laurel has gone from a woman that even in season two was acknowledged as someone who was still a crucial person in Oliver's life to someone he now doesn't count among the important people in his life (who in this retcon are ONLY the two other members of the oliciter OTA), and who he doesn't even say goodbye to when he supposedly leaves Starling city for good (at least not on screen). I have to admit that I find it hard to respect a writing team who themselves show so little respect for the relationships they built up during two seasons. And why didn't Oliver mention TOMMY or his own father when he told Merlyn about the deaths he couldn't forget? Has the show undergone such a transformation that we're not supposed to remember important people in the past?

    Considering the horror that was the season three finale, I think that Oliver and Felicity riding into the sunset must be considered a minor offense. After all, it was a fitting resolution to the romance arc that begun in "The Calm". However, if the writing continues to be this crappy in season four, I don't know if even the shippers can save the show...unless this season's viewers have very different tastes from mine.

    I'm sorry about the ranting, but it really comes from a place of love. I guess I'm just still in shock how Guggenheim managed to drive this once fine superhero show to the ground, something which really hit me when I watched the episode which according to Gugs himself would be the crowning aspect of the whole season.

    I have seen the critiques of this ep, and I suspected it to be bad, but I couldn't imagine that it would leave me so disappointed on so many levels. So, the problem is not just the romance and how it has altered the storytelling...it's just about everything conceivable: the plotting, the pacing, the acting, the ability to mix meaningful drama and kickass action...I could go on and on, but I'll have to stop here.
    I have very similar feelings as you, evaba. The season the show was mainly a disappointment for me on many levels, and the finale was a combnation of all this. At this point I don't believe that season 4 is going to get better - first the showrunners would have to realize that they took the wrong direction, and they seem to be perfectly happy with focusing on a certain target and certain type of storytelling. The crappy writing is something which I can't forgive. I like the Arrow universum, but they managed to make me not care too much about those characters and the story any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino
    I wasn't going to bother watch season 4, and then I found out the front half of the season is going to be used to set up the new spinoff show, so I guess I'll give it a go. I would imagine the whole bring Sara back to life will happen on Arrow. Maybe they will have to draw straws to see who has to tell Captain Lance his dead daughter is alive ... again.
    It's going to turn into self-parody even earlier than I thought. If Sara's resurrection happened in "Legends in Tomorrow" it could be keep out of Arrow-part universe. Besides, what is the point of making the show about (Green) Arrow if more and more screentime is used solely for setting up other shows?

    Guess poor Quentin is going to end up in psychiatric ward in a cell right next to the Arrow...

  9. #69
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipzo View Post
    I don't look at what they said as that they would be using the entire front half of the season to be setting up the LoT. I read that much more as they will be revealing certain storylines amongst both shows which put those characters on their correct paths.
    If I had to guess I would be saying Lotz will come back on Arrow, Palmer will be getting more screen time on Arrow and probably a couple of cross-overs with Flash where he starts helping them out both with tech and money now that they won't have ET/HW helping them.
    Then on the other side of the coin I would be expecting to see the Firestorm aspect beginning to be explored much deeper on Flash, probably some Hawkgirl teasing and a small team up along with Hatwave/Cold episodes to show them as not complete maniacs.

    I'm also expecting that the mid-season finale for Flash and Arrow will be a cross-over episode which will concentrate on setting up all the members of LoT coming together for their team up.
    We are actually in agreement on this, I didn't mean to imply the set up was going to be the main focus of Arrow's first half season, but rather a subplot that runs thru it. I should have been clearer.

  10. #70
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Just announced, Captain Cold and Heat Wave to appear on Arrow next season as part of the lead up to L.O.T.

  11. #71
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    Now that some time has passed, I can appreciate at least what they intended to do (the execution of this plan is a whole other issue).

    It would have been better had the flashbacks been more consistent / relevant to the current timeline (it was spotty at best), but they essentially wanted to show that had he stayed on his crusade and alienated all those he cared for or loved, his fate was going to be that of Maseo: a shell of a man who could not or would not move on past his son's death. His joining the League and becoming "Sarab" was foreshadowing what might have been -- had Ollie committed to the League, become the next Ra's and exploited its resources to achieve his ends. It would have consumed him, leaving little of the Oliver Queen that was struggling to emerge in S3.

    They want to wipe the slate clean, both figuratively and literally, hence Roy assuming the Arrow identity and freeing Ollie of its sins and burdens. He became free of both the ultimately destructive path as the new Ra's and his arguably tainted persona as The Hood / The Arrow. I'd have to believe that, Quentin's early season 3 PR boost for the Arrow aside -- the average citizen of Starling sees the Hood and the Arrow as the same guy. I think he'll begin to realize early next season that he doesn't have to be forced into a corner where he must choose between a vigilante identity who can't know happiness and a civilian Oliver Queen who must give up his mission / sense of purpose to find happiness.

    At the moment he may believe (or want to believe) that he has to give up the Arrow and the mission it comes with to be happy and the whole "riding off into the sunset" was supposed to convey this idea.

    Now this is just the premise of what they wanted to achieve with the S3 finale. The means by which they got there, and their success in doing so, is the part where viewers would have more than a few concerns and we have five pages here so far of the reasons why they didn't necessarily get this idea across by end of S3.

    Elements of the DK trilogy have long been an influence on this show and they've intentionally steered clear of making comparisons with older TV cousin Smallville. They've basically brought Ollie to the point Bruce Wayne was at the end of TDKR -- in order get Bruce Wayne to a place of happiness, he had to give up the Batman persona. In order to keep his soul, his humanity, etc., Ollie had to give up the Arrow persona. It's uncharted territory since they've now moved into an arena where they can't check back with "how Bruce did it" because this was left open-ended about Bruce's life after TDKR. And I am nervous about how it's going to proceed.

    Ollie needs a break, peace of mind, time to regroup -- whatever you wish to call it. He can't be a broken man by series' end and still be believable as the future GA. This I can accept. Again, it's how it played out in S3 that is at issue.

    There are two main concerns I'd have with this "blank slate Ollie". First, it's the all the CW melodrama shipping surrounding it that has clouded the potentially bold direction they might be taking Ollie. How they've framed Ollie's time-out as being mostly due to Felicity's faith in him and love for him is not convincing. We all agree that Ollie's mind/soul/conscience needs a break in order to survive -- it's the notion that Felicity's love alone "saved" him from a Maseo-like fate that has been eye-rolling, esp. in the latter half of this season. As if the rest of the team had no clue that Ollie was losing himself in his Arrow identity . (Umm, Roy has a pretty BIG role in getting Ollie to the point where he had the freedom to choose that sunset drive. I'd say he owes Roy an all-expenses-paid vacation.)

    The other concern (and in my case the bigger one) is how the Arrow series is becoming a springboard for new characters, new series etc., possibly at the expense of the Arrow universe itself: its own stories, characters and so on. In one sense this is necessary work if they're going to build a DC TV universe. My worry is that by stacking the deck with new superheroes, easter eggs etc. next season, they'll gut what makes Arrow itself a show worth watching. While I like Ray and the ATOM and understand that both his (and earlier, Barry's) origins needed to be launched on the senior DC TV series, one could argue that Ray and the subplots related to him didn't always align with either the main Arrow plots or the more big picture goals they had for Arrow in S3.

    In my book, Arrow being a launching pad for other DC TV properties shouldn't take priority over locking down what makes Arrow a series to watch in its own right. It might be too early to say that these new superheroes are going to "cannibalize" S4's Arrow -- whether that is characters, story arcs or just simply screen time -- but this would be my biggest fear should they turn the series into little more than an airfield where future DC TV properties can take flight.

    I want a large DC TV universe too, but Arrow as a series shouldn't have to pay the price to get it done.

  12. #72
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    I thought it was one of the better episodes until Felicity put on Ray's suit. I guess with the writer's needed something else to throw in our face on how "awesome" Felicity is so she can still have a place at the superhero table. Felicity is no Pepper Potts to be able to where that suit and have it make sense story wise. It was straight up stupid and a waste of 60 seconds of being able to another character, like Thea, kick some butt. Poor girl got one scene all suited up.
    Olicity nonsense aside, the episode did bring a sense of completion. Oliver flounded both in present time and in the flashbacks. In present time he had just spent two years as a vigilante and in the flashbacks two years on the island fighting for his life. He doesn't know how to be a normal in either time. And in understanding this, it makes season 3 make a lot more sense. He does deserve a break and a chance to heal. We saw some of that in the flashbacks ealier in the season with his interactions with Akio, but Akio's death sent him back over the edge. To keep a sense of symetry in the story arc, Oliver's next chance at a break would be at the finale in present day. And him riding off into the sunset with Felicity, as chessy as it was, didn't really bother me because the happily ever after never comes in the middle of the story. There's definitely a season 4, I'm 99% confident we'll get a season 5, and depending on how film careers go we might even get a season 6 or the start of the Justice League outside of LOT. Point being, we're a long way off from any ending, let alone a chessy overly scarinated happy one.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfayrie View Post
    ... Olicity nonsense aside, the episode did bring a sense of completion. Oliver flounded both in present time and in the flashbacks. In present time he had just spent two years as a vigilante and in the flashbacks two years on the island fighting for his life. He doesn't know how to be a normal in either time. And in understanding this, it makes season 3 make a lot more sense. He does deserve a break and a chance to heal. We saw some of that in the flashbacks ealier in the season with his interactions with Akio, but Akio's death sent him back over the edge. To keep a sense of symetry in the story arc, Oliver's next chance at a break would be at the finale in present day. And him riding off into the sunset with Felicity, as chessy as it was, didn't really bother me because the happily ever after never comes in the middle of the story.
    This is exactly what I think they had in mind with the S3 finale, outside of the Olicity soap opera. The Oliver Queen we've known from S1-3 is "dead" and it's up for debate if he "died" atop that cliff in his first duel with Ra's or atop the dam in the season finale, but the Arrow as we've known him is a non-entity. Roy's claiming of the identity and sacrifice ensured that this would be the case. Ollie is something else at this point, pun intended. He's not the entitled trust fund brat that went off on the Gambit, nor is the hardened vigilante who's trying to restore his conscience. He thought he could separate the man (Ollie) from the symbol (Arrow) and still be whole, but he's realized now that he was naive in the belief. The big question for him in S4 is: What now? They are going to sort this question out, whether or not Ollie is with someone.

    And this is a much larger -- and for the series, more important -- question than "who gets to win his heart?" I had to roll my eyes at some of the stuff out in social media from some shippers high-fiving themselves after the ride in the sunset who saw it as the endgame. In the middle of the series' run, this is hardly the case. If the latter half of S2 and all of S3 was the making of Olicity in its current sudsy format, then S4 and likely S5 will be its unmaking. I really can't see them stay as-is for all of S4. All honeymoons must end. I'm sure we'll get to see Olicity doing normal, non-superhero things in S4 but I wouldn't want to watch this all season long. I think there will be a change in the nature of Olicity by the S4 mid-season finale.

    They might surprise us and actually make them into a mature, sensible couple that behaves like adults -- but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

    I still view myself as primarily an Arrow guy, even more than Flash, Gotham etc. The execution of some of its story arcs hasn't been consistent but I like that Arrow dances on the good-evil, right-wrong line in ways we'd never see on Flash. I'm fine with Flash being an unabashedly sunnier, comic book show. Arrow was never designed to be just like this, nor should viewers expect it to be so. It still struggles to retain its edginess, even in defiance of increasingly melodramatic and comic book gimmicky influences.

    Again, I'm worried that the first half of S4 will be used as a back-door LOT prequel, where the Arrow regulars and their stories will be relegated to guest star status on their own series. On this I hope I'm proven totally wrong.

  14. #74
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    It is amusing that Ollie can't accept Slade's admittedly melodramatic motivation (Shado's death) for opposing the Arrow, but he's perfectly find using similar motives in holding a bitter grudge against Malcolm. If he's going to hold a hardcore grudge, at least he should get it right. Forgetting Tommy from his vow is a pretty big omission.
    Oliver did not kill Shado. Ivo did. Malcolm used Thea as his weapon and killed Sara. Slade’s motivation is spurious and not at all like Oliver’s toward Malcolm. It’s not the same thing at all since Malcolm actually made Thea a murderer and killed Sara. Oliver was being held at gun point and a mad man decided to kill one of the women with Oliver. Ivo chose to kill Shado. It was never Oliver’s fault.

    Tommy died as a byproduct of Malcolm’s actions but not a direct target. Malcolm is ultimately responsible for Tommy’s death too but Oliver was in the moment speaking about Malcolm’s direct actions, so I don’t mind that in that conversation he did not bring up Tommy.

  15. #75
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    I typically like it when the typical love interest is able to save the hero, and I'm glad that Felicity got the chance to save Oliver, but I have a hard time buying the fact that she was able to perfectly fly and land the ATOM suit when even the creator wasn't able to do that the first time
    .
    First of all, Ray was not shown to have had a lick of trouble the first time he flew. It went so smoothly no one even knew he got the suit working. Second, he’s had a lot of time to tweak the suit to make it work better. Third, Felicity worked closely with Ray on the suit making it perfectly reasonable that she would be aware of basic commands. Fourth, the thing is run by computers and no one is better with computers than Felicity. Fifth if all that still rings false, Ray had a neural interface that would have let him take control of the suit. So Felicity flying the suit and saving Oliver is not any crazier than the existence of the flying suit.

    I didn't love that Felicity was begging Ray to sacrifice thousands (or possibly more than that) to save her boyfriend, but on the other hand, I like that she found a way for both things to happen. But this season has done her character a severe disservice in showing that she doesn't seem to care about anyone but Oliver.
    Saying Felicity was willing to sacrifice thousands to save Oliver is purposely reading in malice where there never was. Yes she wanted Ray to go save Oliver. Ray says he can’t because he has to stay and finish everything and she says “No, but Oliver!” CLEARLY she was not suggesting he say screw the people and go get Oliver. CLEARLY she was protesting an impossible situation and begging the other genius in the room to help her come up with a solution. And he did. He asked what Oliver would do and the answer was whatever it takes.

    The whole team was willing to die trying to save the city way before they knew if Oliver was even worth saving. Without Felicity they never even would have been able to track where the virus was being released. The team now had the patient zeroes contained and Ray was finalizing how to distribute the inoculant so the virus couldn’t hurt anyone more. Felicity was free to do something and it would have been incredibly selfish if she had NOT tried to save Oliver. Apart from doing it because she likes the guy and he’s Thea’s only none insane relative, May comes around every year. The city NEEDS Oliver alive.

    She was willing to quit the team when Oliver wasn't around,
    EVERYBODY was ready to quit the team when Oliver wasn’t around. Felicity was all that was holding them together and then she walked away for less than a week and when she came back she again is the one that brought everyone back together AND agreed to fix Ray’s suit. Then when Oliver came back she made it clear that with or without him, this was every bit as much their mission as it was his.

    she was willing to let Thea die over Oliver joining the League,
    No. She is the one that made it possible for Oliver to take Thea to Nanda Parbat. She got the jet. She convinced the doctors to release Thea. Then AFTER Thea was once again alive and well she objected to Oliver signing over his life for what amounted to blackmail.
    she made Nyssa being forced to marry someone about her own jealousy,
    She said, “I can’t believe he is marrying her.” What, she’s not allowed to be unhappy that Oliver is being forced into a marriage with a woman that just as likely would like to see him dead? I can’t believe that no one was upset that Laurel didn’t even ask about Nyssa when just an episode before she pretty much considered the woman her BFF. They were locked in a dungeon. They had time for Felicity to say ONE thing about something awful that was happening.
    If it were any other supporting character who did this -- Laurel, Thea, whoever -- the fandom would be all over his/her behaviour, seemingly selfish instincts, etc. But it's ok when Felicity does it, because she loves him, he loves her and the only way Ollie can truly become GA is with her faith in him and love, and apparently only hers ... and Diggle and team's nearly identical advice be damned.
    Well if the rest of the team wasn’t gone, then one of them probably would have donned the suit and made the save. I suspect if anyone else had done it, then this complaint wouldn’t be happening.

    The closest comparison I can think of is the complaints leveraged at Laurel when she was appalled at the mere notion of handing over a WILLING assassin she’d known for a month in order to save Diggle’s wife and mother of his child. Really though it’s not the same thing at all. For one, Oliver is the whole show. Saving him is more than Felicity saving the man she loves – as if that is some kind of crime in itself. He’s the most important character. It’s absurd to think the show wouldn’t want him saved. Apparently the complaint is that the wrong person saved him?

    It’s painfully clear that the real issue isn’t Felicity’s accused “selfish” desire not to see Oliver dead, but that fact that the show considers her worthy of being the hero to the hero. For that sin, apparently she can never be forgiven.

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