View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Heir of Greatness

    9 40.91%
  • 9

    2 9.09%
  • 8

    4 18.18%
  • 7

    3 13.64%
  • 6

    2 9.09%
  • 5

    2 9.09%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Kill me with that sword

    0 0%
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  1. #16
    New In Town Sunfayrie's Avatar
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    I love watching Laurel continue to develop as a both her own character and the Black Canary. She has come so far from where she started in season 1 and its really the reason I keep watching Arrow. Laurel is working hard at learning to fight and the harder you work at something the faster you improve Her determination is one of her core character traits and she wouldn't give anything less than 100 percent. The problem is, we as viewers aren't seeing her continue to learn to fight due to other issues that has a louder fan base.
    Katanna was beyond awesome and both scenes with her son and husband were so heartbreaking but so beautifully written and acted.
    It was bittersweet to see Roy and Thea together again only to have it completely end. There's so much more maturity and real love and respect in that relationship and its such a pleasure to watch it. I wish it was EBRs contract ending instead of Colton Haynes and we continued to have more Roy/Thea instead of Felicity and her harem of heroes.
    Felicity didn't have one line that added anything of value to any of her scenes. I almost feel in this episode, the writter's were trying too hard to bring back season1/2 Felicity with her silly comments, but it fell flat and she turned into a whinny brat.
    It was a good episode, there was enough action and other characters on screen to make up for the Olicity drama.

  2. #17
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    It was a pretty decent, and slightly predictable, episode. They're setting the stage for the season finale on several fronts.

    I'm invested in the Ra's story arc and it's Matt Nable that's selling it. Even if you take away the obvious nods to similar plots re: Batman and Ra's, I'm totally on-board with it. The arranged marriage seemed a bit rushed, with no doubt another angle related to driving a wedge into Olicity, but overall it's the arc that keeps me tuned in to the finale. Ollie's false heel turn was expected, but it's starting to stretch credibility that the League's fortress has been stormed several times with no apparent improvement in their defences or security. That's what happens when you count on LuthorCorp. to install your keypad locks -- everyone can come in.

    Ray continues to be the most understanding, heart-stomped ex-bf in the CW universe. I get that as the ATOM they can't make him out to be holding grudges or being petty but it would have been completely believable if there was at least an ep where he was allowed to just stew about the end of their relationship. I'm not sure where they're going with the transfer of company stuff, but if it ends up prolonging Olicity, I'm willing to support a LuthorCorp. hostile takeover.

    Thea and Roy had to have one last moment so that Arsenal can pass the torch to "Speedy" -- but I think she'll need to visit a custom tailor if Roy's old gear is ever going to fit her. Roy just became cooler and cooler in S3, post-"The Climb". I can only imagine how amazing a S4 Roy could be. Great Scott, he could have evolved into the Jax Teller of SOA fame (narratively speaking) of Team Arrow.

    "My Oliver". And the shipper fan service continues. If someone had told me that in S3, when Laurel, Diggle and Felicity have an argument -- it's Felicity's two cents that would make me groan I wouldn't believe it. Yet here we are. (Kudos to Laurel and Diggle for keeping it real amidst the suds.) Brace for it: Ollie will survive all that has befallen him ... because he has Felicity's love. Some version of this soapy schmaltz will likely manifest itself in the season finale. Or into S4 if they prolong it further. I'm hoping not, simply because Felicity is a great character on her own that shouldn't need to be velcro-locked to Oliver Queen. It's not doing her (nor his) character development any real favours.

    I can understand where Diggle's coming from. Ruse or not, Ollie put Lyla in harm's way. It's Diggle's wife, the mother of his child. It's "I'm-lying-to-protect-people", with life or death stakes. In Dig's eyes, Ollie crossed a line. And he's right. The ends don't justify the means and Ollie will have to do much to earn back his trust, if this is even possible. I can't see how they still could be as close as brothers after this. If their roles were reversed. the fandom would be up in arms if Diggle dared to put (naturally) Felicity in danger to achieve an uncertain goal.

    It's been said before but if anyone's training hasn't been entirely sold to the audience -- it's Thea's. Thea's done much to try to change this, but at least for me some work is still needed. Sure they could have added some obligatory Nyssa training Laurel moments, but on the whole Laurel's come out more credibly as S3 winds down. It wasn't a smooth ride, but she's in a much better place as a character on many fronts. I wouldn't believe S2 Laurel could do what she's done this season. S3 Laurel? Absolutely.

    The flashback was one of the few in the latter half that I liked and it was good to see it parallel with the current subplot with Maseo and Tatsu. Maseo's "life" ended in HK and he was just a shell of a man, so Tatsu killing him was more of a mercy to him. Extra bonus points for Tatsu knocking some sense into heartstrings-entangled Felicity.

  3. #18
    Forum Regular Arrowaddict22's Avatar
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    Oliver taking Lyla makes sense to me. Lyla understood Oliver - there was scene in the foundry when they agreed that sometimes you have to do the unthinkable. In that scene, Lyla even mentioned that she and Diggle did not agree on that, and it was a cause of strife in their first marriage. So now we see Oliver doing what must be done, even the unthinkable.

  4. #19
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    ....I can understand where Diggle's coming from. Ruse or not, Ollie put Lyla in harm's way. It's Diggle's wife, the mother of his child. It's "I'm-lying-to-protect-people", with life or death stakes. In Dig's eyes, Ollie crossed a line. And he's right. The ends don't justify the means and Ollie will have to do much to earn back his trust, if this is even possible. I can't see how they still could be as close as brothers after this. If their roles were reversed. the fandom would be up in arms if Diggle dared to put (naturally) Felicity in danger to achieve an uncertain goal.....
    I also understand Diggle's anger and believe it is justified. Anything could have happen during the kidnapping so even if it was a ruse, Oliver put both Lyla's and his baby's life in danger. Just leaving the baby alone until Diggle arrived put the child's life in danger.

  5. #20
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    While, overall, I enjoyed the episode, the scenes with the jet just bugged me in how not right they were.
    The graphics on Felicity's tablet weren't even close to right (looked more like a Harrier than an F-35...wings were the wrong shape and too far back, single tail, etc). The conversion from STOVL (short-takeoff vertical landing) mode to jet borne (how "normal" airplanes fly) mode was way too quick and too close to the ground not to mention the FOD (foreign object debris/damage) issues and that Ras better have a tanker close by if the F-35 is going to take off that close to vertically. And then, when they got into the air, it was an F-35A (Air Force variant) rather than an F-35B (Marine variant...the one that has STOVL capabilities and that was shown on the ground/takeoff). I'm pretty sure that they used Lockheed promotional video and inserted The Atom and I get why they did it. But, still, it just pulled me out of the story.
    (And I get that these complaints are probably only valid for real military jet geeks and those who work on that aircraft program...but, still)

  6. #21
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quite enjoyable episode, even if most of it was predictable. But the fact that Oliver was faking all of it and is working with Merlyn to take down the League from the inside makes much more sense than zombie-Oliver. Also, again shows the more manupulative side of him. I wonder how his relationship with Diggle is going to develop and if they going to address it season 4 or just forgot about all of this altogether.

    I agree with pretty much everything, which President_Luthor has already written, so I will elaborate in this post too much. It was good to see Roy one more time, although I don't completely buy that he seems suddenly to be so much at peace with himself. Yes, they needed him to pass the torch to Speedy, but it just doesn't seem consistent with his character that he doesn't feel a need to carry on with vigilantism. But then again, which character does feel consistent this season?

    Well, of course we all know that the cliffhanger is not an actual cliffhanger, because it's not a type of show, which would kill off five major characters in this way. But just imagine for a while how tragic it would be if the cost of taking down the League would be the lives of people closest to Oliver?

    Quote Originally Posted by gt0163c
    (And I get that these complaints are probably only valid for real military jet geeks and those who work on that aircraft program...but, still)
    If you didn't write this, I wouldn't notice all of those, but I understand why this bugs you. They might be details, but I have an impression that they used to care more about the things like this when they were making season 1. For example in this episode I noticed that Malcolm seems to have inexhaustible amount of arrows in his quiver. He had like five of them visible, but shot at least a dozen of guys... and the arrows are still there in the end. And this comes from a show which used to acknowledge that Oliver carries twenty four arrows in his quiver and flechette and could actually run out of them... (more than once actually, because it happened also in one chapter of the comic based on the show).

  7. #22
    Settling In Red_Arrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    Ra's insinuating that he raped Nyssa's mother and also forcing Nyssa to marry Oliver and reproduce with him was absolutely disgusting.
    Forced marriage is a "disgusting" practice, but it's been around for centuries. For much of Western history, marriage was an exchange of property. To me, Ra's kinda views himself as nobility. And in the Middle Ages, nobles married off their daughters for rank, wealth, or power. Their children weren't given a choice and probably never even met each other beforehand. Shortly after they marry, they have the bedding ceremony and consummate the marriage. Giving the husband heirs was expected. The whole Nyssa thing follows along those lines.

    Ra's is an archaic villain, so his methods should follow suit. He said Nyssa's mother became his concubine. Historically, concubinage was frequently voluntary by the woman or her family, as it provided a measure of economic security for the woman involved. I don't think it would be considered rape in this instance. I'm not saying you're wrong, though, just looking at it from a different perspective.


    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    while Ra's has sexism and homophobia working against him
    He's never come off as homophobic to me. Nyssa's orientation had nothing to with his decisions, which he's made clear on several occasions. This would have happened regardless. Ra's may live in the modern age, but he retains old world customs. And these customs are hard to accept for today's viewers.

  8. #23
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    I also understand Diggle's anger and believe it is justified. Anything could have happen during the kidnapping so even if it was a ruse, Oliver put both Lyla's and his baby's life in danger. Just leaving the baby alone until Diggle arrived put the child's life in danger.
    My thoughts exactly. Having two children of my own, this is the part where I cringed because leaving a baby alone can be a recipe for disaster. So Diggle's anger made a lot of sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Arrow View Post
    Forced marriage is a "disgusting" practice, but it's been around for centuries. For much of Western history, marriage was an exchange of property. To me, Ra's kinda views himself as nobility. And in the Middle Ages, nobles married off their daughters for rank, wealth, or power. Their children weren't given a choice and probably never even met each other beforehand. Shortly after they marry, they have the bedding ceremony and consummate the marriage. Giving the husband heirs was expected. The whole Nyssa thing follows along those lines.

    Ra's is an archaic villain, so his methods should follow suit. He said Nyssa's mother became his concubine. Historically, concubinage was frequently voluntary by the woman or her family, as it provided a measure of economic security for the woman involved. I don't think it would be considered rape in this instance. I'm not saying you're wrong, though, just looking at it from a different perspective.



    He's never come off as homophobic to me. Nyssa's orientation had nothing to with his decisions, which he's made clear on several occasions. This would have happened regardless. Ra's may live in the modern age, but he retains old world customs. And these customs are hard to accept for today's viewers.
    I think I may be reading into it more because MG confirmed that Ra's has an issue with Nyssa loving a woman, because you're right that he hasn't shown blatant homophobia.

    And you do make a good point about the forced marriage being a traditional thing amongst many nobles. But the fact that Nyssa was surprised by it shows that it's not the way things are typically done in the League. Or else she would have known that she was eventually going to be put in an arranged marriage.

    As for Nyssa's mom, I may be misremembering the episode, but I think he mentioned that he took her as a concubine in spite of her wishes, but I could be wrong.

    I do appreciate the different perspective though. I still think it's kind of a crummy storyline, but it's likely it was intended to show that Ra's is a villain. I just wish they were handling it better. But then, that could be said about a lot of the heavier topics that Arrow tackles, so I suppose this is just par for the course.

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