View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Al Sah-Awesome

    11 50.00%
  • 9

    4 18.18%
  • 8

    3 13.64%
  • 7

    2 9.09%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    1 4.55%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Badder than a member of the League of Assassins

    1 4.55%
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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuviel View Post
    ^ I had similar thoughts. The episode brought to miind the book Wizard's First Rule in which the protagonist appeared to have been broken and brainwashed but had really suppressed his true self until he was given access to the very thing that would destroy his enemy.

    Quark: the virus was killed by the fire. It's the ultimate cleanser.
    I didn't get that vibe at all from Oliver. Throughout the whole episode he just seemed mindless. If he is not brainwashed, and his transition was so quick, shouldn't Ra's be worried, or at least, find it peculiar that Oliver has reacted this way?

    I didn't realise that about the fire. My bad .

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    I didn't get that vibe at all from Oliver. Throughout the whole episode he just seemed mindless. If he is not brainwashed, and his transition was so quick, shouldn't Ra's be worried, or at least, find it peculiar that Oliver has reacted this way?

    I didn't realise that about the fire. My bad .
    I'm not saying he's faking it - he was certainly cold throughout the episode. Colder than he ever was in Season 1.

    What I noted was his reaction when Thea showed up bow and arrow in hand. There was a brief look in his eyes that I read as "you're not supposed to be a part of this. I never meant for you to be a part of this."; and his annoyance with the arranged marriage. Those two things made me think that just maybe Ollie is still in there somewhere.

    As far as Nyssa is concerned - he stated when they first met that his was taking her back to Nanda Parbat, which I interpreted as Ra's orders. Probably something along the lines of "you need to eliminate you rival. Bring her back here to deal with her." So in that I disagree with Arrowaddict22 - I don't think he ever intended to kill her in Starling City.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuviel View Post
    I'm not saying he's faking it - he was certainly cold throughout the episode. Colder than he ever was in Season 1.

    What I noted was his reaction when Thea showed up bow and arrow in hand. There was a brief look in his eyes that I read as "you're not supposed to be a part of this. I never meant for you to be a part of this."; and his annoyance with the arranged marriage. Those two things made me think that just maybe Ollie is still in there somewhere.
    Interesting, because to me he just looked the same throughout the whole episode. And judging by the promo for the next episode, nothing changes.

  4. #19
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    This was so much better than last week. There were a lot of really strong character-driven moments. I do wonder about Oliver though. It's interesting that he didn't answer the question about who he 'saw' in the opening scene, nor did he answer the question of whether or not the people protecting Nyssa were his people.

    I honestly don't get the motivations of Ra's this season though. He was angry about Malcolm's undertaking and how much attention it would draw to the League, but he's okay with releasing a virus that will wipe out an entire city? Just... it makes no sense. It also makes no sense that in one episode, he cares enough about Sara's killer that he wants to kill innocents in Starling until Team Arrow turns over the killer, and then a few episodes later, he claims that he doesn't really need to see her killer brought to justice. As with this whole season, it feels like the writers had certain things that they wanted to happen and didn't bother coming up with an organic, sensible way to get there.

    The Nyssa and Laurel moments in this episode were EXCELLENT. Thea had some pretty good moments too, and I'm so glad that she knows about Roy. While I'd miss having Thea around, I kind of like the idea of her getting to run away and start a new life with Roy. Though she did look pretty awesome in her costume and it was great to see her have a moment where she stood up to her brother and was just generally kick-butt.

    I felt horrible for Nyssa at the end of this episode too. As she said, she'd rather be dead than forced into a marriage. It's gross, but sadly in keeping with comics Ra's and his disregard for women (he's done some pretty awful things to his daughters in the comics, and the whole forced marriage thing is lifted straight from the pages)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    I honestly don't get the motivations of Ra's this season though. He was angry about Malcolm's undertaking and how much attention it would draw to the League, but he's okay with releasing a virus that will wipe out an entire city?
    I think it was because Malcolm did the undertaking without his permission. Ra's seems to like being in control, as shown in this episode. He continues to order Oliver around and won't allow him to lead the LoA until he has killed Starling City's entire population. He's controlling everything, including Nyssa's life. I could be wrong, though.


    I do wonder about Oliver though. It's interesting that he didn't answer the question about who he 'saw' in the opening scene, nor did he answer the question of whether or not the people protecting Nyssa were his people.
    As for Oliver's actions, I'd have to agree with Tinuviel. Oliver went through a lot on the island and wouldn't be easily broken. I think he's pretending and would not have killed Diggle. Ra's never ordered it the second time. Oliver kidnapped Lyla (with no intention of hurting her) because he knew Diggle would cave.

    In my opinion, Oliver is doing his bidding so he can take over the League. He could then change the League's direction and perhaps even order Ra's al Ghul's execution or imprisonment. He'd have killed Nyssa because he had no other choice, and it would give him command. Do as he says and maybe you'll fool him. Then Ra's threw him a curveball. Marry Nyssa and unleash a deadly virus on SC. The latter is where Oliver will draw the line and prove that he wasn't brainwashed at all. Maseo has been with the LoA a while and still remembers who he is. Why shouldn't Oliver?

  6. #21
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    The good: Laurel and Nyssa friendship. Their scenes together we're amazing and props to Katie Cassidy and Katrina Law. Both Laurel and Nyssa are both women who need a good girlfriend in their lives and to watch that type of relationship on screen was so refreshing. Laurel kicking butt and getting her butt kicked. I love seeing Laurel continue to grow and fall, but she doesn't stop and doesn't give up.

    The bad: The fake Felcity/Thea friendship moment. I think some people forget that just because EBR and WH are BFFs in real life does not make Felicity and Thea friends in Arrow. Felcity and Thea have barely interacted in three seasons outside of Oliver and like Olicity, this instant friendship doesn't make sense and was an awkward stop in the episode's pacing.

    The ugly: Felicity's crying. It's past time for this girl to put on her big girl panties and suck it up. I'm sick and tired of watching Felicity cry. it's annoying and as a viewer I can no longer sympathize with her because her constant crying has turned into crocodile tears.

    The beyond awesome: Nyssa telling Felicity to shut up. In that moment Nyssa was every single viewer who doesn't think Felicity is the next best thing since sliced bread and it was awesome!

  7. #22
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Arrow View Post
    I think it was because Malcolm did the undertaking without his permission. Ra's seems to like being in control, as shown in this episode. He continues to order Oliver around and won't allow him to lead the LoA until he has killed Starling City's entire population. He's controlling everything, including Nyssa's life. I could be wrong, though.



    As for Oliver's actions, I'd have to agree with Tinuviel. Oliver went through a lot on the island and wouldn't be easily broken. I think he's pretending and would not have killed Diggle. Ra's never ordered it the second time. Oliver kidnapped Lyla (with no intention of hurting her) because he knew Diggle would cave.

    In my opinion, Oliver is doing his bidding so he can take over the League. He could then change the League's direction and perhaps even order Ra's al Ghul's execution or imprisonment. He'd have killed Nyssa because he had no other choice, and it would give him command. Do as he says and maybe you'll fool him. Then Ra's threw him a curveball. Marry Nyssa and unleash a deadly virus on SC. The latter is where Oliver will draw the line and prove that he wasn't brainwashed at all. Maseo has been with the LoA a while and still remembers who he is. Why shouldn't Oliver?
    Ra's al Ghul wanting to be in control makes a lot of sense actually. I could see him being upset that Malcolm did something so big without his blessing. But this season is still a bit of a mess in terms of why things are happening. But that's another discussion.

    Nyssa did specify that not all members get brainwashed, which is kind of weird in itself. but the more I think about it, the more I think that you're right and Oliver is playing the role he needs to until he can gain control of the League.

  8. #23
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    I would love to figure out, in the end, that Ollie really was faking his disillusionment the entire time, purely as a means of giving Ra's the false security of having the upper hand. Perhaps he KNEW he was under the influence of a herb and that the man was no Diggle, and deemed that a single kill would be necessary in order to fully gain Ra's trust. I don't know if y'all are caught up on "the Flash," but they could be trYing to pull off the exact opposite of what's going on on there: whereas Harrison Wells, the villain, is a million steps ahead of Barry, maybe they'll turn I around so that Oliver was actually way ahead of Ra's the entire time. Ra's appears to be steps and steps ahead, but maybe they're I are trying to make us believe he is only to reaffirm how impressive and intelligent a hero Oliver is in the long run. Maybe he is being distant as a ploy. I don't know, but I'm just brainstorming.

  9. #24
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    Looking at the brain washing theorys there are alot of things that point that oliver might be faking with very little to the actually is brainwashed, the thing is the thing pointing to it being real is a biggy. Oliver was on the island for a long time, he has a very strong will, he has overcame vertigo not once, not twice, not three times, but 4 and all in different variations and came out on top. He's been tortured, stranded, imprisoned and always came out on top. the fact that he hesitated and actually didnt hurt any of his real friends besides beating on diggle a bit at the end could point that he is only acting and doing what is necessary, his looks at thea and diggle in the last scene, the expression on his face when lyla was telling him about diggle while oliver had her showed some conflict so maybe he is acting. The only major thing that points to maybe this is real is the opening scene, where he killed who he believed was diggle..thats a big one, because oliver in control at all even if he was playing a game with ras would never kill diggle, it just wouldnt happen thats a line he wouldnt cross. now maybe he actually knew it wasnt really diggle, or maybe he snapped out of his mind control after that scene...all possiblities. maybe he knew it wasnt diggle because maybe he had already talked to diggle, for all we know he could have a sat phone hidden somewhere and diggle could be secretly feeding him intel so he knew diggle wasnt really there. they did a once over before on the audience with roys death, so i could see this being a possiblity. Also wondering if malcolm might have something to do with snapping oliver back, if you think about it Thea called him and when they were talking at the end of the scene he asked, "Ok well what do you need from me?" now alot of people could speculate that she was just gonna be like " i need ur bow and a hood" but i think thats way too simple, she probably has a bow and such on her already and doesnt really need malcolm for that. so i am waiting to see malcolm play some role in getting oliver back.

  10. #25
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Much better than the previous week episode. Brainwashed Oliver means (almost) no Olicity, which means there was actually some time to develop the plot. It's rather devastating to see Oliver so cold and gone to the point where he doesn't recognize his friends any more. Interesting theory that he might faking most of it, but the opening scene when he sees Diggle and kills him rather contradicts this statement. I guess something will have to snap him out of this state - and I hope that it's not going to be the power of love towards Felicity...

    This episode had a lot of great characters moments - Team Arrow trying to carry on, Thea trying to pull herself together after what happened and especially all Laurel and Nyssa scenes - those were excellent. Maybe Laurel's words that Nyssa is a good person were a bit of overstatement, but overall I liked their subplot and the fact that they developed close friendship. Also seeing Nyssa enjoying for a brief while a normal life was fun and sad at the same moment, because it was clear that it can't last for too long.

    I can't get motivations of Ra's. He wanted to slain Malcolm for killing 503 people in Starling and now he wants Oliver to wipe out the enitre population of the city. The only explanation is that Malcolm wanted to do this without his permission and that's what pissed him off. The plan with using the virus finally shows that the flashbacks this season served some purpose after all, althought too often they seemed just to be a distraction.

    I liked the opening and the closing montage as well as the fight sequences (even if again LoA members seem to be taken down too easily when the plot needs it). Thea has put on the hood - seems that she is only one step from becoming Speedy (it cracked me up though when she shot Ollie with the arrow and he just pulled it out from his forearm as if nothing had happened and apparently was still able to move his hand - well, convenient moment again ). Good that they finally told her that Roy is still alive.

    Poor Nyssa! Ra's is cruel, bethroting her to the worst husband possible!

  11. #26
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    8/10 a lot better

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