Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Public Enemy?"

[Dagenspear]

Also Dagenspear I respect the fact that you have an opinion and you are very much entitled to that but kindly you are watching a show about a group of vigilantes like Oliver as the Arrow or Laurel as the Black Canary who operate outside of the court system because it is broken. Why I say that? Well look at how fast they gave the Glades to Danny Brickwell.

And if that's what this was about, there wouldn't be a problem. But again, Oliver breaking the law is apparently okay, but Lance? No, that's awful.

[Dagenspear]

I hated the hit because it confirmed to me that this really was all about his personal feelings about Oliver Queen/the Arrow and not about justice. Lance shouldn't be using his position of authority to take care of his personal issues. That's not what he's being paid to do. If he wants to do something about his personal feelings against Oliver, then he should do that on his own time. As others have said, he should only go after the Arrow for crimes he's actually committed. What he's doing is an abuse of his power as a police captain.

Oh, now what he's being paid to do matters? He wasn't being paid to help Oliver in season 2, but he did. He's already abused power. Like I said: At least now it's pointed in the right direction.

[Dagenspear]

If I'm miss understanding about what you are saying Dagenspear please correct me.

Oliver is a serial murderer. He deserves everything he gets. And I'm fine with Lance breaking the law to bring him down, because the show tried to force me to be okay with him breaking the law to help Oliver.

[DoubleDevil]

It's funny how no one was complaining about abuse of power when Lance was helping Oliver, but NOW it's an issue. Abuse of power doesn't matter to me as long as it's being used for the right thing. Like I said: It's not about the law. Again, people seem to have no problem with Oliver breaking the law and getting away with it, but Lance, oh no, that's awful.

The difference is Oliver is a vigilante, someone outside the law who I don't expect to follow every law to the T, while Lance is somebody supposedly upholding the law. I'm not against abuse of power either otherwise I would've thrown a fit when Laurel went to interrogate the crook in the hospital before he got shot by Komodo. The question is, is Lance doing something good for the city in his personal crusade against Oliver or is it self serving? Is the city better off without the Arrow or will removing the Arrow lead to more unsolved crimes? I truly doubt the LoA and hitmen like Deadshot and Komodo just appeared once the Arrow arrived, the SCPD probably never knew they were operating within the city prior is all. It is a mixed standard agreed but I also don't expect a defense attorney to throw in the towel in court just because he/she knows their client is guilty, they work any angle they can (possibly even illegaly) to get their client off. I also don't hold a neighborhood rolemodel to the same standards as I do a national sports star or entertainment celebrity.

As for Oliver Queen the serial killer, he's been exonerated from his season 1+2 crimes and he hasn't killed anyone this season so unless you want Lance to arrest him for the deaths prior to Oliver's official return to Starling there's no serial killer to chase in Oliver Queen.

[Dagenspear]

The difference is Oliver is a vigilante, someone outside the law who I don't expect to follow every law to the T, while Lance is somebody supposedly upholding the law. I'm not against abuse of power either otherwise I would've thrown a fit when Laurel went to interrogate the crook in the hospital before he got shot by Komodo. The question is, is Lance doing something good for the city in his personal crusade against Oliver or is it self serving? Is the city better off without the Arrow or will removing the Arrow lead to more unsolved crimes? I truly doubt the LoA and hitmen like Deadshot and Komodo just appeared once the Arrow arrived, the SCPD probably never knew they were operating within the city prior is all. It is a mixed standard agreed but I also don't expect a defense attorney to throw in the towel in court just because he/she knows their client is guilty, they work any angle they can (possibly even illegaly) to get their client off. I also don't hold a neighborhood rolemodel to the same standards as I do a national sports star or entertainment celebrity.

As for Oliver Queen the serial killer, he's been exonerated from his season 1+2 crimes and he hasn't killed anyone this season so unless you want Lance to arrest him for the deaths prior to Oliver's official return to Starling there's no serial killer to chase in Oliver Queen.

Again, I say, there was no problem with Lance breaking the law for Oliver in season 2, but now, oh, it's awful. It doesn't matter why. It should have happened a long time ago anyway. Yes, that is exactly what I want. For Oliver Queen to be locked in prison for the rest of his life for the people he murdered. That is what he deserves. But, I'm perfectly willing to accept this as consolation.

And there is NO difference between THIS Oliver Queen and the Oliver prior to his official return. He is still a serial murderer and that will never change. He still did those things. Not doing them now doesn't change anything.

[DoubleDevil]

Again, I say, there was no problem with Lance breaking the law for Oliver in season 2, but now, oh, it's awful. It doesn't matter why. It should have happened a long time ago anyway. Yes, that is exactly what I want. For Oliver Queen to be locked in prison for the rest of his life for the people he murdered. That is what he deserves. But, I'm perfectly willing to accept this as consolation.

And there is NO difference between THIS Oliver Queen and the Oliver prior to his official return. He is still a serial murderer and that will never change. He still did those things. Not doing them now doesn't change anything.

Then why watch a show that glorifies vigilantism? Even the over glorified Robin Hood was a crook and murderer and anyone with a secret identity is going to be breaking laws, legal or moral. You're right, Oliver Queen being exonerated doesn't mean those crimes weren't commited but it means he won't be legally held accountable for them. As poorly as the showrunners have written the continuity of many of the characters I doubt we'll see much salvation of the show as long as they continue pandering to the teeny drama they've focused so intensely on this season. The reason I accepted Laurel and Quentin abusing their power and breaking the law previously was for the better of the city as a whole, correcting what the law was hindering them from doing themselves. And again, now we have Quentin breaking the law but instead it's for personal satisfaction and not bettering the city. Oliver abused and dishonored the trust Quentin had in the Arrow, fine then stop helping him and don't trust him, he can even go off on a rant like he did in the van but you don't start a legal manhunt for something you know he's innocent of.

[Lois_Lane_Fan]

Oh, now what he's being paid to do matters? He wasn't being paid to help Oliver in season 2, but he did. He's already abused power. Like I said: At least now it's pointed in the right direction.

I find his current abuse of power to be more problematic than his former abuse of power. He's trying to punish a man for a crime he didn't commit. He's also letting the person truly responsible for that crime get off scott-free in the process. What he did before may not have been on the up and up, but at least his former abuse of power was still somewhat getting the job he was supposed to be doing done. If my loved one was murdered by Ra's al Ghul and the police put another man in jail for the crime - even if that other man was guilty of some other crime - I'd be pretty angry about it. I guess what I'm saying is that I believe the opposite of what you said here. I think his abuse of power was pointed in the right direction before and is now pointed in the wrong direction.

[Dagenspear]

Then why watch a show that glorifies vigilantism? Even the over glorified Robin Hood was a crook and murderer and anyone with a secret identity is going to be breaking laws, legal or moral. You're right, Oliver Queen being exonerated doesn't mean those crimes weren't commited but it means he won't be legally held accountable for them. As poorly as the showrunners have written the continuity of many of the characters I doubt we'll see much salvation of the show as long as they continue pandering to the teeny drama they've focused so intensely on this season. The reason I accepted Laurel and Quentin abusing their power and breaking the law previously was for the better of the city as a whole, correcting what the law was hindering them from doing themselves. And again, now we have Quentin breaking the law but instead it's for personal satisfaction and not bettering the city. Oliver abused and dishonored the trust Quentin had in the Arrow, fine then stop helping him and don't trust him, he can even go off on a rant like he did in the van but you don't start a legal manhunt for something you know he's innocent of.

I don't watch Robin Hood. I originally watched this show and was even accepting of it because the show never tried to force me to be against the cops for going after Oliver. At least I never got the impression that they were.

Like I said before: Legality has nothing to do with any of this. You can't accept Oliver murdering people and then be against someone breaking the law in a way that isn't as bad. It's hypocrisy. The fact of the matter is, what Lance has done is nowhere nearly as bad as what Oliver has done, so the show can't ask me to be against him for it.

[Dagenspear]

I find his current abuse of power to be more problematic than his former abuse of power. He's trying to punish a man for a crime he didn't commit. He's also letting the person truly responsible for that crime get off scott-free in the process. What he did before may not have been on the up and up, but at least his former abuse of power was still somewhat getting the job he was supposed to be doing done. If my loved one was murdered by Ra's al Ghul and the police put another man in jail for the crime - even if that other man was guilty of some other crime - I'd be pretty angry about it. I guess what I'm saying is that I believe the opposite of what you said here. I think his abuse of power was pointed in the right direction before and is now pointed in the wrong direction.

What you said could easily be used to describe the feeling of the loved ones of the people that Oliver's murdered. Not even evil crime bosses either. But just random thugs. People who have husbands and wives and mothers and fathers and grand-parents and great grand parents, and aunts and uncles and friends, and children. The pain of their families matters just as much. It's debilitating. Crushing. Miserable. The kind that just eats away at your soul. Think about that and tell me again it was pointed in the right direction. A show that asks me to value justice and morality cannot apply a different set of morals for the main character than it does for everyone else.

[Nibbio]

This ep was WOAHhhhhhhhh

[DoubleDevil]

I don't watch Robin Hood. I originally watched this show and was even accepting of it because the show never tried to force me to be against the cops for going after Oliver. At least I never got the impression that they were.

Like I said before: Legality has nothing to do with any of this. You can't accept Oliver murdering people and then be against someone breaking the law in a way that isn't as bad. It's hypocrisy. The fact of the matter is, what Lance has done is nowhere nearly as bad as what Oliver has done, so the show can't ask me to be against him for it.

I guess I'm a hypocrit then. You can hold someone to higher standards than someone else, I hold a neuro surgeon to high standards in an operationroom than I do a combat medic and I hold somebody breaking the law for the bettering of society in higher regard than somebody breaking the law for personal gratification. I feel for any innocent person grieving the loss of a loved one but a loved one punished for doing something illegal has already created that suffering for their loved ones regardless of what happens to them. I won't blame anybody dealing justice to a criminal regardless of the suffering it causes their loved ones because that's on the criminal. We don't live in a black and white world and I don't expect to find one in a TV show that revolves around somebody working outside of society to improve it.

[Dagenspear]

I guess I'm a hypocrit then. You can hold someone to higher standards than someone else, I hold a neuro surgeon to high standards in an operationroom than I do a combat medic and I hold somebody breaking the law for the bettering of society in higher regard than somebody breaking the law for personal gratification. I feel for any innocent person grieving the loss of a loved one but a loved one punished for doing something illegal has already created that suffering for their loved ones regardless of what happens to them. I won't blame anybody dealing justice to a criminal regardless of the suffering it causes their loved ones because that's on the criminal. We don't live in a black and white world and I don't expect to find one in a TV show that revolves around somebody working outside of society to improve it.

Oliver can't control what anyone else does but himself. He CHOSE to murder those people. It was his choice. He is to blame. You can hold someone to a higher standard, but those standards have to be acceptable. These aren't.

[NightHawk777]

I completely agree with everything you said here. Lance is focusing on a personal vendetta and not chasing after a dangerous criminal due to that personal vendetta.



I hated the hit because it confirmed to me that this really was all about his personal feelings about Oliver Queen/the Arrow and not about justice. Lance shouldn't be using his position of authority to take care of his personal issues. That's not what he's being paid to do. If he wants to do something about his personal feelings against Oliver, then he should do that on his own time. As others have said, he should only go after the Arrow for crimes he's actually committed. What he's doing is an abuse of his power as a police captain.

Abuse of power apparently runs in the Lance family. I remember when Laurel was trying to prevent Ray from getting any help from the SCPD because he found out Oliver is Arrow. I thought that was abuse of power also. Maybe they are showing us Lance's getting corrupted by power and position? I really hope not, because I like them both.

[DoubleDevil]

Oliver can't control what anyone else does but himself. He CHOSE to murder those people. It was his choice. He is to blame. You can hold someone to a higher standard, but those standards have to be acceptable. These aren't.

Yes he did, after he gave most of them a chance to redeem themselves and they chose not to. There were the exceptions such as the kidnapper he killed to keep his identity a secret, but I don't think kidnapping is less dispicable than murder. Actually the suffering it can cause could be worse than the death of a loved one.

[Dagenspear]

Yes he did, after he gave most of them a chance to redeem themselves and they chose not to. There were the exceptions such as the kidnapper he killed to keep his identity a secret, but I don't think kidnapping is less dispicable than murder. Actually the suffering it can cause could be worse than the death of a loved one.

He didn't give any of the thugs he killed a chance at all.