View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Great!

    10 35.71%
  • 9

    5 17.86%
  • 8

    5 17.86%
  • 7

    3 10.71%
  • 6

    3 10.71%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    1 3.57%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - These writers need to turn themselves in.

    1 3.57%
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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Trying to put a man in jail for crimes he didn't commit is different than letting a man get away with crimes he did commit how?
    Letís say that yesterday, someone broke your arm. Then, today, that same person broke my arm and my leg. Which situation is worse? The answer to that question is the simplest way to explain why one of Lanceís actions is worse than the other action.

    Breaking your arm and breaking my arm would be equally as bad. Letting the Arrow go free and letting Ra's al Ghul go free is arguably equally as bad. However, somebody breaking my arm and my leg is worse than somebody breaking only your arm. Theyíre both bad, but one situation is worse than the other. Letting Ra's al Ghul go free and putting an innocent man in jail at the same time is worse than letting the Arrow go free. Again, theyíre both wrong, but one situation is worse than the other situation. To sum up, doing two bad things is worse than doing one bad thing when one of those two bad things is the same in both situations. I honestly canít think of a more simple way to explain what I've been trying to get at than that.
    Last edited by Lois_Lane_Fan; 04-19-2015 at 01:49 PM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    Letís say that yesterday, someone broke your arm. Then, today, that same person broke my arm and my leg. Which situation is worse? The answer to that question is the simplest way to explain why one of Lanceís actions is worse than the other action.

    Breaking your arm and breaking my arm would be equally as bad. Letting the Arrow go free and letting Ra's al Ghul go free is arguably equally as bad. However, somebody breaking my arm and my leg is worse than somebody breaking only your arm. Theyíre both bad, but one situation is worse than the other. Letting Ra's al Ghul go free and putting an innocent man in jail at the same time is worse than letting the Arrow go free. Again, theyíre both wrong, but one situation is worse than the other situation. To sum up, doing two bad things is worse than doing one bad thing when one of those two bad things is the same in both situations. I honestly canít think of a more simple way to explain what I've been trying to get at than that.
    Quentin let Oliver go and assisted him afterwards.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    No they don't begin and end there but they start the ball rolling. We know what moral decisions, and their consequences, Quentin made since letting Arrow get away with his season 1 crimes but what will they be for his morally questionable decision this time around? We see that Quentin's decision has (supposedly) cost the life of someone innocent that Quentin was really trying to save (according to Quentin) yet Quentin brushes the responsibility he carries in the "death" from himself to Oliver instead in order to further his personal vendetta. At least by letting the Arrow go Quentin didn't have to carry the moral burden of being responsible for an innocents death unlike his current moral dilemma.
    With the exception of all the guards that got blown up in that Russia episode because they wanted to save Diggle's ex-wife.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Quentin let Oliver go and assisted him afterwards.
    Fair enough. If you factor that in, youíre left with the question of whether arresting a man for crimes he did not commit is worse than assisting a vigilante. For me, trying to arrest Oliver for crimes he didnít commit is still the worse of the two actions. The only way I could even possibly begin to consider arresting Oliver for crimes he didnít commit to be the lesser of the two evils would be if Oliver was arrested for crimes equal to his own. And frankly, I donít see Oliverís crimes and Ra's al Ghulís crimes as equal to one another. Unlike Oliverís crimes as the Arrow, Ra's al Ghul murdered innocent people, and that would almost definitely result in a steeper punishment than putting Oliver on trial for his own crimes. Therefore, I donít see arresting Oliver for Ra's al Ghulís crimes to be fair punishment for Oliverís own crimes.

    On a side note, given the events of the season finale, Iíd say that Quentin not going after Ra's al Ghul was most definitely a bigger mistake than Quentin not going after the Arrow turned out to be.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    Fair enough. If you factor that in, youíre left with the question of whether arresting a man for crimes he did not commit is worse than assisting a vigilante. For me, trying to arrest Oliver for crimes he didnít commit is still the worse of the two actions. The only way I could even possibly begin to consider arresting Oliver for crimes he didnít commit to be the lesser of the two evils would be if Oliver was arrested for crimes equal to his own. And frankly, I donít see Oliverís crimes and Ra's al Ghulís crimes as equal to one another. Unlike Oliverís crimes as the Arrow, Ra's al Ghul murdered innocent people, and that would almost definitely result in a steeper punishment than putting Oliver on trial for his own crimes. Therefore, I donít see arresting Oliver for Ra's al Ghulís crimes to be fair punishment for Oliverís own crimes.

    On a side note, given the events of the season finale, Iíd say that Quentin not going after Ra's al Ghul was most definitely a bigger mistake than Quentin not going after the Arrow turned out to be.
    I doubt he knew that.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    Fair enough. If you factor that in, youíre left with the question of whether arresting a man for crimes he did not commit is worse than assisting a vigilante. For me, trying to arrest Oliver for crimes he didnít commit is still the worse of the two actions. The only way I could even possibly begin to consider arresting Oliver for crimes he didnít commit to be the lesser of the two evils would be if Oliver was arrested for crimes equal to his own. And frankly, I donít see Oliverís crimes and Ra's al Ghulís crimes as equal to one another. Unlike Oliverís crimes as the Arrow, Ra's al Ghul murdered innocent people, and that would almost definitely result in a steeper punishment than putting Oliver on trial for his own crimes. Therefore, I donít see arresting Oliver for Ra's al Ghulís crimes to be fair punishment for Oliverís own crimes.

    On a side note, given the events of the season finale, Iíd say that Quentin not going after Ra's al Ghul was most definitely a bigger mistake than Quentin not going after the Arrow turned out to be.
    And those guards in that Russia episode that got blown up don't count in Oliver's kill list?

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    I doubt he knew that.
    Doubt he knew what? That not going after Ra's al Ghul would turn out to be a bigger mistake than not going after the Arrow turned out to be? If that's what you were talking about, then I completely agree that he didn't know things would turn out that way. That doesn't change the fact that it was a mistake, as evidenced by the end result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    And those guards in that Russia episode that got blown up don't count in Oliver's kill list?
    Truth be told, I don't remember the scene, so I couldn't give a fair opinion on it. I don't remember any incidents where he just randomly killed innocent people for no reason at all, but I admit I might be forgetting something somewhere. I'd have to see the episode again, though, to give a fair judgment.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    Doubt he knew what? That not going after Ra's al Ghul would turn out to be a bigger mistake than not going after the Arrow turned out to be? If that's what you were talking about, then I completely agree that he didn't know things would turn out that way. That doesn't change the fact that it was a mistake, as evidenced by the end result.
    If we're doing that then we could say that if he would have locked Oliver away in season one Slade might not have attacked the city, so really it was Quentin's mistake that he didn't.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    If we're doing that then we could say that if he would have locked Oliver away in season one Slade might not have attacked the city, so really it was Quentin's mistake that he didn't.
    I donít see those two situations as comparable, though. Oliver was only indirectly responsible for Sladeís actions. Ra's al Ghul was directly responsible for his own actions. And, to be clear, Iím not blaming Quentin for what Ra's al Ghul did. Itís not his fault. Iím just saying that with hindsight, we now know that Quentin was wrong not to go after Ra's al Ghul.

    Iím not saying itís his fault for not being able to predict the future, either. None of us can. It just is what it is.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    I donít see those two situations as comparable, though. Oliver was only indirectly responsible for Sladeís actions. Ra's al Ghul was directly responsible for his own actions. And, to be clear, Iím not blaming Quentin for what Ra's al Ghul did. Itís not his fault. Iím just saying that with hindsight, we now know that Quentin was wrong not to go after Ra's al Ghul.

    Iím not saying itís his fault for not being able to predict the future, either. None of us can. It just is what it is.
    My point was that if we're going to compare someone's actions based on what they had no idea would happen then we could do that with everybody.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    My point was that if we're going to compare someone's actions based on what they had no idea would happen then we could do that with everybody.
    I understood your point, but I still donít see those two situations as comparable. It was a little easier to predict that not arresting Ra's al Ghul could eventually lead to him committing some terrible crime in the future than it was to predict that not locking Oliver away would result in Slade attacking the city. He obviously couldn't have predicted that Ra's al Ghul would commit a crime quite as bad as what he ultimately tried to do, but some guy who starts killing random people for no apparent reason is probably a guy who will commit other serious crimes at some point. He couldn't have predicted the exact outcome, but he should have been able to predict that no good would come from what he was doing. On the other hand, there was no way to predict that not locking Oliver away would result in Slade attacking the city. Therefore, I don't consider the two situations to be comparable.

    But again, I'm not blaming Quentin in any way for Ra's al Ghul's actions. Ra's al Ghul and Ra's al Ghul alone is to blame for that. After all, even if Quentin were to have tried to have gone after Ra's al Ghul, there's no way of even knowing if he could have successfully caught him or if he could have found any proof of his guilt. What I am saying, though, is that if we look back on things, we now know that Quentin should have at least made an effort to go after Ra's al Ghul instead of wasting his time on Oliver. If you want to argue that he should have also gone after Oliver for his own crimes, then that's a different matter. He definitely should not have handled things the way he did, though, as we can now see based on how things turned out.
    Last edited by Lois_Lane_Fan; 07-05-2015 at 08:01 AM.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    I understood your point, but I still donít see those two situations as comparable. It was a little easier to predict that not arresting Ra's al Ghul could eventually lead to him committing some terrible crime in the future than it was to predict that not locking Oliver away would result in Slade attacking the city. He obviously couldn't have predicted that Ra's al Ghul would commit a crime quite as bad as what he ultimately tried to do, but some guy who starts killing random people for no apparent reason is probably a guy who will commit other serious crimes at some point. He couldn't have predicted the exact outcome, but he should have been able to predict that no good would come from what he was doing. On the other hand, there was no way to predict that not locking Oliver away would result in Slade attacking the city. Therefore, I don't consider the two situations to be comparable.

    But again, I'm not blaming Quentin in any way for Ra's al Ghul's actions. Ra's al Ghul and Ra's al Ghul alone is to blame for that. After all, even if Quentin were to have tried to have gone after Ra's al Ghul, there's no way of even knowing if he could have successfully caught him or if he could have found any proof of his guilt. What I am saying, though, is that if we look back on things, we now know that Quentin should have at least made an effort to go after Ra's al Ghul instead of wasting his time on Oliver. If you want to argue that he should have also gone after Oliver for his own crimes, then that's a different matter. He definitely should not have handled things the way he did, though, as we can now see based on how things turned out.
    Of course he should have gone after both. The point I've been trying to make is that he's wrong for not going after Oliver just as much as he's wrong for not going after Ra's. I'm very sorry if I gave you any other impression.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Of course he should have gone after both. The point I've been trying to make is that he's wrong for not going after Oliver just as much as he's wrong for not going after Ra's. I'm very sorry if I gave you any other impression.
    No reason to apologize at all. Itís been fun discussing this with you either way. The thing that made me think that you thought he didnít need to go after Ra's al Ghul as much as he needed to go after Oliver was a comment you made early on in our discussion about Quentinís more recent abuse of power being aimed in the right direction, but I must have misinterpreted the comment. We can definitely agree that it would have been appropriate for him to have gone after both of them, though.
    Last edited by Lois_Lane_Fan; 07-06-2015 at 04:50 PM.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    No reason to apologize at all. Itís been fun discussing this with you either way. The thing that made me think that you thought he didnít need to go after Ra's al Ghul as much as he needed to go after Oliver was a comment you made early on in our discussion about Quentinís more recent abuse of power being aimed in the right direction, but I must have misinterpreted the comment. We can definitely agree that it would have been appropriate for him to have gone after both of them, though.
    Okay. That comment may have been a mix of bias and the idea that Oliver being a murderer at least makes him deserving of being gone after. Sorry for that.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Okay. That comment may have been a mix of bias and the idea that Oliver being a murderer at least makes him deserving of being gone after. Sorry for that.
    No worries! We all have our biases that come out during discussions from time to time. I know it's happened to me before.

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