View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Ra's al GREAT!

    10 45.45%
  • 9

    6 27.27%
  • 8

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  • 7

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    0 0%
  • 5

    2 9.09%
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  • 1 - Offer me a better episode

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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "The Offer?"

    What did you think?

  2. #2
    Forum Whiz Kaleltheking's Avatar
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    Unfortunately I'll have to rewatch it. Storm messed up the signal for a good chunk of the episode for me. From what I saw though...I think I liked it..

  3. #3
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Who'd have thought there were two offers: the one Ra's gave to Ollie (that, it turns out, he can't actually refuse), and the one Nyssa gave to Laurel to train her. The latter one I sort of expected, since Nyssa wasn't going to be pleased she was passed over as heir-apparent.

    Capt. Lance's tongue-lashing of the Arrow was long overdue re: lies and the reality check that the Hood/the Arrow is a vigilante who operates outside of the law ... and if he is allowed to operate, it's consenting in a way to an outlaw's form of justice. Having just seen the Batman: Year One animated movie again, this is one of the key themes that Gordon and other cops needed to reconcile in their minds re: Batman -- where to draw the line between serving justice and mere vengeance.

    If anything, this scene underlined that Quentin feels betrayed by both the Arrow and his daughter, but for separate reasons. Trust may be at the root of it, but while Quentin was willing to accept the Arrow's involvement in stopping crime because he rationalized that it was for the greater good, the Arrow's keeping Sara's death a secret (however he tried to justify keeping it) broke this trust. How can he be certain that the Arrow won't be keeping another secret that could put his men and himself in jeopardy?

    The series always seems to have one secret/lie that was allowed to fester for a few eps. too long, mostly for melodramatic reasons, and this season it's the one Laurel kept from Quentin. Yes, it was a familial betrayal of trust, no question. But unforgivable? He could be just as angry at Ollie and by extension Team Arrow for joining their vigilante crusade (see above paragraph). But I think it will play out just as how Laurel said it will -- he'll be angry, several weeks later they'll reach an understanding and their relationship will move into (we hope) a more adult and less melodramatic phase. This is one melodrama subplot that needs to be over soon, it's served its angsty CW network purpose and is becoming a bit stale to me.

    Diggle as always is the man who keeps it real. Just because the win-loss count doesn't add up in Ollie's mind and Felicity is with Ray for now, doesn't mean all of a sudden that Ra's offer starts to make sense. And Ollie shouldn't have needed Felicity to spoon-feed the reasons why the offer is beyond crazy, on any level. While Ollie argued that he came to this realization at the precinct re: making sure the cops get home safely, could he not have realized this on his own after Diggle's sensible chat? I know the Ollie/the Arrow identity crisis is a main theme in S3, but c'mon Ollie, surely you must know that slipping back into "the Hood" mode (even with a new title and an LoA army) won't do anyone good. He gets a thumbs down for seeing Felicity and Ray together and being jealous, as one of his motivators for initially considering Ra's offer

    Of course the offer had strings to it, even if Ra's didn't spell it out. Ollie wanted to make sure that he (and Diggle and Malcolm) got out safely -- but did he really think this was the end of it? Ra's showing up in SC, I can only assume, to blacken the Arrow's reputation would be completely in line with "killing" the Arrow as a symbol -- if it pans out this way. Without the symbol that defines him, Ollie could look at Ra's offer in a different light.

  4. #4
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Best episode since the Brave and the Bold buy my estimate. There was a level of honesty that moved everything forward. There have been so may contrivances in the past season keeping people from talking to each other and finally there was rational human discourse. Lance is still deeply hurt but he deserves time to work through his pain.

    The stand out surprise for me (though I shouldn't be surprised) was Nyssa. The contrast between the badass assassin and the hesitant and lonely woman asking for the company of her beloved's sister just slayed me. Nyssa teaching Laurel actually works because Nyssa needs both the connection and the distraction and Laurel, she needs the training.

    Loved that Ra's didn't just send his minions to smear the Arrow's name. I don't even care how silly it is that Ra's has decided to make Oliver his heir. This episode was satisfying on so many levels.

  5. #5
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    Hmm.... this was one hell of an episode.

    Highlights for me:
    - Ra's letting Oliver, Dig, and Malcolm go, as well as erasing all blood debts as a sign of good faith had both me and friend going "WTF?"
    - I don't know if its wires crossed in my head, but most of Thea's lines didn't come across as depressed/suicidal, but deadpan.
    - Malcolm: a truly twisted individual when his fatherly advice is to aim for the jugular....
    - Nyssa continues to be more and more unimpressive to me. Not the actress; she's doing a fantastic job. But the character who was introduced as a bad-ass has continually spent more time being quite proud of her title and proclaiming it than actually kicking ass, and its coming back to bite her.
    - Once again, Paul Blackthorne does a superb job showcasing the struggle of Quentin Lance, and I look forward to things as they move forward.

    My one irritation: they had to introduce 'Shado' (until we find out for sure its her I'm going to do 'this' to show the possibility of her being an ARGUS plant) in the final flashback sequence of the episode.

    Oh, and Ra's doing what he did at the end is rather interesting. Interestingly enough, Oliver is probably one of the few characters in this show who would see that Ra's is illustrating a point.

  6. #6
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    Well where to start first. First off very good action as always.


    Now Thea's mood swings is giving me whip lash. One second she wants Malcolm dead then the next she's saying how guilty she is to Roy then back to killing Malcolm. I'm not sure if they provided a reason for these mood swings or not. I will say it's nice Roy and her got back together because as of now that is one of the few romances like Diggle and Lyla that is not messed up with boring drama.

    Ok so that brings me to Oliver's choice. Ok debating of whether or not to become the next Ras A Gul and even saying no in this episode that's fine. Because we all know that it was a demand and if Ras A Gul is killing a few guys to once again put the heat on Oliver it would lead me to believe Oliver may reconsider that offer.

    The problem is like President Luthor said Felicity spoon feeding Oliver is crazy and stupid. Since Oliver can't come to that realization on his own reasons for doing this without her help it's like Smallville. What I mean by that is Clark could even blow his nose with out some one and that was usually Chloe telling him it was ok to blow his nose. Because of spoon feeding crap like that I'm almost ready to start doing what I did with Lana Lang and Laurel (In season 2) by pressing the fast forward button. Also I actually missed the first part about Murmur in Palmer Technologies since I didn't want to watch her or the stupid love triangle between Ray/ Felicity and Oliver.

    So there pandering to a fan base is for me seriously hurting the show and makes me enjoy it less. Now moving forward.

    The flashbacks were a low but I completely understand the filler of they were just waiting to get to that end with Shado. So I'm sure the Hong Kong flashbacks are about to pick up speed big time.

    I'm enjoying the start of a friendship between Laurel and Nyssa.

    I was actually surprised to see Ras A Gul behind the fake Oliver hood.

    I'm also pleased that we had Oliver actually say I was an assassin once and the references that he was in fact a killer and a torturer. Because for something of making Oliver a "hero" writers can just very easily say ok he's no longer a killer or interrogates people anymore so we can just forget about it.

  7. #7
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    Also how sick is Malcolm Merlyn? Saying to Thea aim for my jugular and kill me because it would bring me joy if your happy. Plus he actually makes a joke about his fatherly love so I really hope Malcolm doesn't go. Even if's just a side character he makes all his scenes even if he is a bad guy very enjoyable.

  8. #8
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    One thing I actually did like- and I know people are saying that Felicity is "spoon-feeding" stuff to Oliver- but at LEAST she could have a conversation with him for once without coming across as hating him. It was uncomfortable- and I'll be happy when the love triangle stuff is over- but I've missed the friendship between them this season and tonight at least I felt a glimmer of hope that they may find a way through that.

    I thought that Nyssa would train Laurel- but I agree with the above poster. Broke my heart to see her so lonely and lost and reaching out to Laurel. That progression makes sense.

    First time Maseo has talked about Akio in the past tense....did anyone else hear that?

    Overall good episode- I was also surprised to see Ra's in the Arrow suit. Expected a league member, but not the Head of the Demon himself.

  9. #9
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    Yes I'm glad about that they can actually talk without ripping each other's heads off. I missed that friendship as well which I hope they can get back to that.

    Well for Ray apparently Felicity and Ray hit a rough patch so maybe that will be the last of that.

    Ah I think we all know what is going to happen to Akio now.

  10. #10
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    A couple points of clarification for my own review: my issue with Nyssa's storyline is more that it was basically 'teen dramafied'. The budding friendship between Nyssa and Laurel is actually one of the more interesting ones. Though, does this mean that Nyssa is basically Laurel's Lady Shiva?

    I didn't mention the Felicity thing because for the most part, I actually enjoyed their scenes for the first time in several episodes. My biggest problem, like with President Luthor, is the whole spoon-feeding thing. Especially since, once upon a time, Diggle's pep talk was enough. This has been an on-going theme this season on Arrow and in a single episode of "The Flash": the only one qualified to give heroes the pep talk and have it work is suddenly Felicity. Sorry, my BS scanner has detected the motherload.

    Finally.... I'll need to watch it again, but did 'Shado' have any expression of recognition towards Oliver?

  11. #11
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Pretty ok. Less eventful compared to the previous episodes and that's not necessarily a bad thing. When a series has reached the point of people acting o.o.c. at every turn, you need a slower paced episode to get some perspective about these characters. That said, the show is still a long way away from rediscovering its form.

    The good:

    - Nyssa. More Katrina Law please.
    - Nyssa and Laurel bonding.
    - In depth looks into what's going on with Oliver and Thea. This is something that was much needed. Especially after the last episode, where those two went from one WTF moment to the other without any character introspection.
    - Felicity was less melodramatic, hence more likeable this week.
    - The final twist. Granted, it's a mere repeat of what we've seen in the past (the Dark Archer trying to sully the Arrow's reputation), but it will be interesting to see how far Ra's goes with this.

    The not so good:

    - The main one: So Ra's has wiped the slate clean as far as Sara's death is concerned. Meaning her death really served no purpose. What a waste. And even worse, Malcolm is still walking around free. Why doesn't Oliver imprison him now? He really has no excuse anymore.
    - The Oliver/Felicity/Ray triangle. Nothing good is coming out of this. If you're headed toards Olicity, just do it and don't waste time on stuff that just tires the viewer and ruins the characters.
    - Felicity as the heroes' brain/conscience. Gee, where would Oliver and Ray be without her.
    - Lance being angry with the Arrow. I get the reasons, but as I said above about "Arrow Al Ghul", why recycle stuff we've seen in earlier seasons?
    - Finally, I guess this episode officially confirmed that Oliver survived the duel with Ra's on his own power. No Pit. Ugh. How can a show with supposed grounded realism get away with such a load of bs?

    6/10
    Last edited by costas22; 03-19-2015 at 04:15 AM.

  12. #12
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    I thought that was a wonderful episode with loads of character progression for Oliver, Thea, Laurel and Nyssa. It is a bit depressing though how Nyssa has had more character development this season than Roy who is supposed to be a main character. Would love to see Nyssa become a permanent fixture on the show.

    It did amuse me how Roy seemed able to beat Nyssa (albeit with a bit of luck) but Nyssa more than made up for it with the fight at the precinct.

    I really hope they get rid of Malcolm now, he serves no purpose anymore and I just find him so unlikeable.

    Was great seeing more Ra's and was cool seeing what the Lazarus Pit does. Interesting how he said it wasn't having the effect it used to have on him. Does the Pit lose its potency as time goes on or was that an Arrow thing?

    Strange how Oliver said that crime hadn't changed in the city. I thought it was established in the season premier by Lance that crime had gone down?

    I didn't really understand that last scene with Ra's dressed as the Arrow. It would have made much more sense if Ra's had a voice modifier because the last time I checked, the Arrow didn't have an Australian accent. If that guy had any brain cells he would know that the Arrow wasn't actually the Arrow.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular Lois_Lane_Fan's Avatar
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    I'm really enjoying the Nyssa/Laurel friendship a lot. Hopefully, Nyssa's training will put Laurel on the fast track to becoming closer to the Black Canary from the comics that we all know and love. I'm ready to see her become a bit more competent when it comes to fighting.

    Quentin Lance appears to be done with the Arrow at the moment, and he's still angry with his daughter. I wonder how long it will be before we see these issues resolved? Also, will he believe that the Arrow is responsible for the things Ra's al Ghul is framing him for now that he no longer trusts the Arrow? The next couple of episodes should be very interesting.

  14. #14
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Where the episode was solid, it was very good. The Laurel and Nyssa scene was handled well, since TPTB had the wisdom to establish in a previous ep. that they have a common bond in their affection for Sara. (Nyssa needs a friend, Laurel needs training. I don't think anyone could find fault with this end result.)

    And I'm glad Laurel essentially voiced what I'm sure many viewers may be thinking: it's getting old with Ollie's harping about what everyone knows -- that she needs more training. Yeah, yeah, she still needs training. We all get that by now. Ollie, you had reasons for not training her. You're not involved ... so this means you're not in the conversation about how she obtains this training. No doubt, Ollie will object to Nyssa's involvement. And again, he has no say in it. He's neither her bf nor her trainer. He'd be veering towards SV Clark-level meddling if he thinks being Laurel's ex means he has a meddle-at-will pass here.

    I didn't like S2 Roy/Thea, fueled as it was by melodrama and secrets/lies. S3 Roy/Thea is growing on me, mostly because both of them seem more mature and have evolved as characters. I'm less fond of the Thea and Malcolm stuff, it's more "classic" CW melodrama. No one should be trusting Malcolm. Spiriting Malcolm away from the League is about all Ollie should have done, then (ideally) exile far away from SC. Nursing him back to health, under Thea's roof(!), is a bit hard to swallow. It's not the brightest move, unless prolonging Thea angst and Malcolm's warped parenting was Ollie's plan all along.

    It's true that Quentin's (and the SCPD's) justified objection with vigilantism -- that it creates a murky no-man's-land code of justice -- is an old issue, one raised even back in S1. And the show does tend to rehash issues that have emerged in the past. But it looks like Ollie/the Arrow needed to hear it again, since it seems he's way too comfortable with getting the credit for his extrajudicial arrests without dealing with the consequences. I know Ollie doesn't intentionally seek the glory, never has -- it's the other consequences that don't make the papers that Quentin is concerned about. And keeping Quentin in the dark about Sara was breaking the trust he thought he had in the Arrow. The trust issue with Ollie was more than keeping secrets. It's more along the lines of the good guys being able to trust one another in the field. Quentin feels he can't do that with the Arrow, if Ollie is picking and choosing which truths to reveal.

    I think Ollie invoking this rift among his litany of "reasons" (the other being the Raylicity stuff ) for considering Ra's offer undercut the point they wanted to make with Quentin's dressing-down of the Arrow. It's unfortunate it got grouped with the melodrama re: Ollie thinking Ra's was right about being alienated from friends/family.

    Diggle was saying the same things that Felicity was saying -- the Ra's deal is nuts and not worth the price -- but because of Olicity, Felicity's advice somehow holds more weight? While the Ollie/Arrow identity crisis has been an on-going theme this season and could explain Ollie's (many) indecisive moments in S3, it's the fact that it seems he can't make many decisions this season without her input that rankles viewers in my mind. What other reason, except to fuel Olicity?

    He should listen to advice -- from Diggle, Felicity and increasingly, from Roy and Laurel -- but it seems he's either refusing to from others (eg. those not named Felicity) or is as dense as a block of lead when they do offer advice. This may have been more acceptable in S1 when Ollie was a "novice", but in S3 it's starting to wear thin, even with this season's identity crisis theme. If he's been at it for "8 years" (his words, as he's counting his pre-SC years), he should know by now that indecisiveness will get you killed.

    A very entertaining episode, melodrama and character issues aside.

  15. #15
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    This is probably one of the stronger episodes this season, in my opinion. I like that it focused on character development and I think that we've suffered from not seeing Oliver's point of view on things up until the previous episode and this one. Since he came back from being 'dead,' he's been harsh with just about everyone on the team, so it was nice to see him voicing his feelings and to actually SEE what he' struggling with. It was also nice to see him actually accepting advice and listening to input from someone. I minded the Olicity moments less because they actually served both characters well, imho. Even if I agree with some of the above posters that it's a little eyeroll-worthy that he refused to listen to Diggle but listened to Felicity when she made many of the same points.

    I continue to love Nyssa and the way Nyssa and Laurel have bonded over their grief for Sara. I'm also glad that Laurel will be getting proper training. While it's been realistic that she's not at the level in the comics, I would really like to get to a point where she's more competent and we're not hearing every episode that she needs more training.

    I am a little tired of the lengths that Oliver is going to protect Malcolm though. I can see his reasoning to some extent, but forcing Thea to care for the man who used her in a pretty awful way is just prolonging Thea's pain. And really, Malcolm is responsible for Tommy and Sara's deaths, as well as 500 some people who lived in the Glades. In my opinion, that makes him beyond redemption. And while I can see Oliver keeping Thea from feeling responsible for what happens to Malcolm, I don't get him continuing to watch out for Malcolm or help the man avoid the justice that is due to him. Especially now that he doesn't 'need' Malcolm to train him to fight Ra's.

    Overall, I was much more impressed with this episode than the last one. So that's a good thing.

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