View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - I want to go back in time and watch this all over again

    19 55.88%
  • 9

    7 20.59%
  • 8

    5 14.71%
  • 7

    1 2.94%
  • 6

    1 2.94%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    1 2.94%
  • 2

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  • 1 - This is so bad I wish I could erase my memory of seeing it

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  1. #31
    1000 More To Go!! Welling_is_pretty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemix View Post
    the thing I disliked most about this episode is the large amount of bold steps the authors took, only because there will be a change of time line.
    This, for me. I was so impressed with some Carlos and Tom Cavanaugh's acting but knowing that it will all be erased soon/retconned? Makes me kind of shrug and go "well, that was pointless. Impressively acted but pointless." Yeah, Cisco died but he'll be back soon so the emotional impact was lessened for me (reminds me of comics, when characters die now and you just shrug and go "they'll be back"). It was still there, mostly due to those two actors being so amazing, but as I said, much lessened.

    The Barry/Iris romance. I have an intense dislike for any character who doesn't have any romantic interest in someone until they find out that said person is interested in them. I know Barry and Iris are endgame and canon and whatnot but...the idea that she finally likes him because she found out he likes her? Ugh.

    Did not care for Mardon as a villain at all. And when, oh when oh when, will the cops learn that they need to start keeping some sort of tech or the like at the station? I mean, this is what, the 3rd time a supervillain has attacked? They need to borrow some Star Labs stuff or something.

    Time travel hints are fun but, as I said, robbed it of some impact since we know it can now all be erased.

    So yeah, aside from truly impressive acting by several cast members, I didn't much care for this episode (I know, puts me in the minority).

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward Galaxy View Post
    This is the example I find curious. Is the Felicity Smoak from the comics that important? If they can revamp her and turn her into someone important to the mythos, why not? It's not like the Felicity on the show is a throwaway character.
    You are correct, sir. TV-Felicity matters less because comic-Felicity was much less central to the Firestorm story than Stagg and Jean were in their respective stories. That said, if she isn't going to be a similar character, why not just give her a new name? There isn't a shortage of women's names out there.

    Here's a Smallville example. In addition to Lana Lang & Pete Ross, TPTB wanted to give Clark a female friend. I'm glad they called her Chloe Sullivan rather than Felicity Smoak or Jean Loring, because then there's no assumption that she may somehow develop into Firestorm's step-mother or Atom's wife at a later date. Chloe became a character in her own right who eventually moved over to the comic side. Success!

  3. #33
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    I think because Felicity was going to be a throw away character. They didn't intend on make her the character she is, but fans had such a strong reaction the EBR that they felt she deserved a larger role- making her a regular and giving her more of a backstory and so forth. It was a little more organic- and once she was already named Felicity Smoak- they had to keep going with it.

  4. #34
    Forum Regular cybernetix's Avatar
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    Time Travel ...interesting!
    I was a bit shocked to see Cisco die, then Barry goes back in time. It's a shame that he did not see the Wells/Cisco moment to fix that later. Overall one of the best ending of the show. Cant wait to see the next episode!

  5. #35
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    If Well is really Thawn who is the real Dr. Well

  6. #36
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acer15 View Post
    If Well is really Thawn who is the real Dr. Well
    One of the questions that the series has to answer is whether or not there ever was a real Dr. Wells or if the persona is completely made up. Unless I am missing a clue from the show, it could go either way at this point.

  7. #37
    Complete SV Nerd skully's Avatar
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    Cracking episode. Like everyone I was like "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...????" when Wells killed Cisco, but when Barry revealed himself to Iris, it was "hang on a minute...". Barry then blasted, presumably, back in time, so we essential saw an AU episode. [SPOILER]So presumably Barry gets to undo Cisco's death AND his reveal to Iris in the next ep.[/SPOILER]. Awesome.

  8. #38
    Posting Pro Aurora Moon's Avatar
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    I hated what the writers did with the Iris character. I thought she was finally becoming her own character last episode, and now this? They turned her into a Lana Lang clone... you know, the "I only exist to generate endless melodrama and pointless romance plots that never go anywhere satisfying!" type.

    Lana Lang did a very job of making me hate her every time she teased both Clark and the viewer about her interest in him, only to run off to be with the random boyfriend of the season. And she would throw hissy fits too if Clark even showed interest in other girls out there besides her, even if she was already with a boyfriend of the season at the time.

    Now Iris west is having a very similar effect on me, even though she took a different path than Lana Lang did to get there. She made such a big deal in the plot over how she only ever saw Barry Allen as a brother, and how he was the best platonic friend she ever had! And for at least three episodes after that, she acted like a big sister... while slowly degrading into the "Jealous because male friend has a hot girl friend, unsure if she's actually in love with male friend!" cliche.
    The whole thing still feels so gross to me... and I wish that they hadn't reached for this romantic plot-line until after Barry Allen had altered the time-line. Then her reactions here would actually make sense, since how then their relationship wouldn't had that icky "sibling vibe" that they had in the start. And what about poor EDDIE?? Is he just basically doomed to be like Lana Lang's Whitney, the season 1 boyfriend for Lana?

    God, the CW writers can't seem to write a good romantic couple that we can actually root for!

    Okay, my main griping over the worst plot points of the ep over with.... let's move on to the BEST stuff in the Ep!
    I really loved the scenes with Joe West and the Weather Wizard.... it was a excellent bit of character-building for not only Joe West, but Weather Wizard's back-story too.
    But the award goes to both Crisco and Welles' scene. Man, that scene was so intense and emotional.

  9. #39
    Somewhere in Time Who's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora Moon View Post
    But the award goes to both Crisco and Welles' scene. Man, that scene was so intense and emotional.
    Makes me cry every time I watch it.

    Well done Carlos and Tom.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora Moon View Post
    I hated what the writers did with the Iris character. I thought she was finally becoming her own character last episode, and now this? They turned her into a Lana Lang clone... you know, the "I only exist to generate endless melodrama and pointless romance plots that never go anywhere satisfying!" type.
    What? So, to you, Iris can't be her own character if she has a romance? Like, one negates the other somehow? I also don't see how this generated endless melodrama. And speak for yourself with romance plots being pointless and never going anywhere satisfying.
    Lana Lang did a very job of making me hate her every time she teased both Clark and the viewer about her interest in him, only to run off to be with the random boyfriend of the season. And she would throw hissy fits too if Clark even showed interest in other girls out there besides her, even if she was already with a boyfriend of the season at the time.
    That's not even remotely true. Clark was always the one cutting it off, so Lana, as she should, would go and find someone else to be with. While Clark would be the one who usually would get up in arms about whoever she was dating. I don't think it was Lana who was doing a good job of making you hate her. I think you were carrying most of the weight of that job.
    Now Iris west is having a very similar effect on me,
    I think you're having an effect on you.
    even though she took a different path than Lana Lang did to get there. She made such a big deal in the plot over how she only ever saw Barry Allen as a brother, and how he was the best platonic friend she ever had! And for at least three episodes after that, she acted like a big sister... while slowly degrading into the "Jealous because male friend has a hot girl friend, unsure if she's actually in love with male friend!" cliche.
    The whole thing still feels so gross to me... and I wish that they hadn't reached for this romantic plot-line until after Barry Allen had altered the time-line. Then her reactions here would actually make sense, since how then their relationship wouldn't had that icky "sibling vibe" that they had in the start. And what about poor EDDIE?? Is he just basically doomed to be like Lana Lang's Whitney, the season 1 boyfriend for Lana?
    Eh, whatever to the cliche part. You may call it a downgrade, but it's more like a sidegrade. The altered time-line thing would've been kinda lame and just kinda empty. Whatever vibe there may be, it seems pretty clear that they don't really see each other as brother and sister. Honestly, I've seen a few romances where someone literally says someone is like their brother, only to show very unsisterly feelings toward them.
    God, the CW writers can't seem to write a good romantic couple that we can actually root for!

    Okay, my main griping over the worst plot points of the ep over with.... let's move on to the BEST stuff in the Ep!
    I really loved the scenes with Joe West and the Weather Wizard.... it was a excellent bit of character-building for not only Joe West, but Weather Wizard's back-story too.
    But the award goes to both Crisco and Welles' scene. Man, that scene was so intense and emotional.
    Eh.

  11. #41
    Posting Pro Aurora Moon's Avatar
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    Heh, looks like somebody got pissy because I didn't like how their favortive smallville character was portrayed. And took some of my words out of context too!! Whee!!

    What? So, to you, Iris can't be her own character if she has a romance? Like, one negates the other somehow? I also don't see how this generated endless melodrama. And speak for yourself with romance plots being pointless and never going anywhere satisfying.
    No, I found iris to be an awesome character in the start even when she was and still is going out with EDDIE. She still can have a romance and be her own character. I'm talking about how they're literally turning this newbie-yet-hardboiled reporter into nothing but a plot device to create conflict between Eddie and Barry Allen... which let's be honest here, is something everyone can see coming from miles away.

    Just like how the writers, when they didn't know what to write, used Lana Lang as a plot puppet to create conflict between Clark and the boyfriend of the season, whenever it be Whitney, Jason, Lex, etc. Even though there was literally no reason for the conflict, if Lana was supposed to be the strongly faithful girlfriend to each one of them at the time.
    But of course the writers would show us that Lana always had feelings for Clark no matter how closed off clark was to her.... and the boyfriends were made to be completely aware of this. Lana may not physically cheat on anybody, but she did have a lot of Emotional Infidelity going on. She couldn't be emotionally faithful to any of her seasonal boyfriends 100%. All for what? Melodrama..... and creating all those love triangles all over the place.

    It was like the CW writers couldn't let go of the love triangles that they're SO fond of even if their life depended on it. every single season always had to have a love triangle in it, no matter what!

    That's not even remotely true. Clark was always the one cutting it off, so Lana, as she should, would go and find someone else to be with. While Clark would be the one who usually would get up in arms about whoever she was dating. I don't think it was Lana who was doing a good job of making you hate her. I think you were carrying most of the weight of that job.
    You might want to re-watch a few episodes.... especially the ones in season 3 to season 4 where Lana tells Clark that she simply cannot trust Clark at all if he doesn't tell her EVERYTHING... when Clark was telling her how he would love to be with Lana. She leaves, and then comes back with a new boyfriend afterwards. You put all of the blame on Clark 100%..... but let's be real here, it was more like half and half. But mostly I just blame the CW writers for creating such a pointless emotional tug-of-war that never really went anywhere.

    I hated how CW writers kept on insisting this was true love and everything, yet dragged things out for so long. To me, there was never an resolution to the CLANA drama, all they did was fill her up with kryptonite and turned her into an super-powered commando...then blam, it was "We can't be together anymore because of Kryptonite! woe is us!"
    I actually would had preferred that Lana didn't have any seasonal boyfriends standing in the way... and for Clark and Lana to be boyfriend/girlfriend for at least three seasons, before naturally growing out of their romance. Have Lana just be this girl who craves a quiet normal life, and have her realize that Clark just can't give that to her. She goes off into the sunset to find herself, and also find somebody MUCH BETTER FOR HER than Clark.

    But no, the CW writers MUST HAVE LOVE TRIANGLES NO MATTER WHAT. surely you see the problem with that?
    Last edited by Aurora Moon; 03-22-2015 at 11:32 AM.

  12. #42
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora Moon View Post
    Heh, looks like somebody got pissy because I didn't like how their favortive smallville character was portrayed. And took some of my words out of context too!! Whee!!



    No, I found iris to be an awesome character in the start even when she was and still is going out with EDDIE. She still can have a romance and be her own character. I'm talking about how they're literally turning this newbie-yet-hardboiled reporter into nothing but a plot device to create conflict between Eddie and Barry Allen... which let's be honest here, is something everyone can see coming from miles away.

    Just like how the writers, when they didn't know what to write, used Lana Lang as a plot puppet to create conflict between Clark and the boyfriend of the season, whenever it be Whitney, Jason, Lex, etc. Even though there was literally no reason for the conflict, if Lana was supposed to be the strongly faithful girlfriend to each one of them at the time.
    But of course the writers would show us that Lana always had feelings for Clark no matter how closed off clark was to her.... and the boyfriends were made to be completely aware of this. Lana may not physically cheat on anybody, but she did have a lot of Emotional Infidelity going on. She couldn't be emotionally faithful to any of her seasonal boyfriends 100%. All for what? Melodrama..... and creating all those love triangles all over the place.

    It was like the CW writers couldn't let go of the love triangles that they're SO fond of even if their life depended on it. every single season always had to have a love triangle in it, no matter what!



    You might want to re-watch a few episodes.... especially the ones in season 3 to season 4 where Lana tells Clark that she simply cannot trust Clark at all if he doesn't tell her EVERYTHING... when Clark was telling her how he would love to be with Lana. She leaves, and then comes back with a new boyfriend afterwards. You put all of the blame on Clark 100%..... but let's be real here, it was more like half and half. But mostly I just blame the CW writers for creating such a pointless emotional tug-of-war that never really went anywhere.

    I hated how CW writers kept on insisting this was true love and everything, yet dragged things out for so long. To me, there was never an resolution to the CLANA drama, all they did was fill her up with kryptonite and turned her into an super-powered commando...then blam, it was "We can't be together anymore because of Kryptonite! woe is us!"
    I actually would had preferred that Lana didn't have any seasonal boyfriends standing in the way... and for Clark and Lana to be boyfriend/girlfriend for at least three seasons, before naturally growing out of their romance. Have Lana just be this girl who craves a quiet normal life, and have her realize that Clark just can't give that to her. She goes off into the sunset to find herself, and also find somebody MUCH BETTER FOR HER than Clark.

    But no, the CW writers MUST HAVE LOVE TRIANGLES NO MATTER WHAT. surely you see the problem with that?
    Nice try. My favorite character isn't, never was, and never will be Lana, but please, keep assuming that this isn't just about what's right and nothing else, please, I want you to. Iris isn't being used to cause drama between Eddie and Barry, in fact, from the Pilot Eddie's been used to create drama between Barry and Iris. I don't see you flying off the handle about that. But whatever drama is actually coming between Barry and Eddie I'm interested. The writers used every character as a plot puppet to created conflict with other characters. At random, Clark, Chloe, or Clark's parents would freak out about something and blame someone who wasn't at fault. I'm sorry, but the only time that actually comes to mind with any emotional infidelity was with Whitney, and even then Lana was going to break with him, but his father passed away. With Jason, she had actually moved on, but still has some lingering feelings, which is understandable, Lana's not a robot, she can't just turn her feelings off at will, it wasn't until Jason started freaking on her that there was even some hint of real drama between him and Clark. With Lex, he was the one who made the moves on her knowing she had just gone through a very rough break-up with Clark, but he wanted the trophy to lord over Clark, in this instance, there was already massive drama between Clark and Lex and that was all about Clark and Lex, even Lex admitted that getting Lana wasn't about Lana in the slightest, it was all about Clark. All the blame was on Clark. He was the one who simply refused to be with her in Pheonix and then backtracked. You keep saying Lana coming back with a boyfriend, as if that's awful somehow? Oh, how dare she start dating, she has feelings for Clark, so therefore she should be 100% devoted to him even when he's being completely ineffectual and refuses to actually come out and say anything! Of course there wasn't resolution. Souders and Peterson dropped the ball immensely. Eh. I don't really have that much of a problem with it.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by acer15 View Post
    If Well is really Thawn who is the real Dr. Well
    I'm going to theorize that there really is a Wells and when Thawne time traveled, he took the identity of Wells. If he really was Eddie's descendent, he'd probably be blonde.

  14. #44
    Posting Pro Aurora Moon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Iris isn't being used to cause drama between Eddie and Barry, in fact, from the Pilot Eddie's been used to create drama between Barry and Iris. I don't see you flying off the handle about that.
    I will agree that Eddie is easily used as an plot device for pointless melodrama TOO, that it's not only Iris who's being used as a plot device. However, I tolerated it because:
    1)I thought he was related to the yellow flash in some way. Which he turns out to be, somewhat.
    2) Iris kept on insisting that there was really nothing between her and Barry Allen. that they were like siblings. so like a fool I believed her and thought that Eddie and Iris would be the typical couple who were completely faithful to each other. (until Barry Allen changed the timeline anyway).

    So it was easier for me to accept Eddie more because at least things from his viewpoint seems far more understandable than it is from Iris's end. His girlfriend says that her supposedly platonic friend is like a little brother to her or something like that. Okay, fine.... But then all of a sudden she starts flirting with Barry in front of him and Barry's date? NOT COOL.

    You keep saying Lana coming back with a boyfriend, as if that's awful somehow? Oh, how dare she start dating, she has feelings for Clark, so therefore she should be 100% devoted to him even when he's being completely ineffectual and refuses to actually come out and say anything! Of course there wasn't resolution. Souders and Peterson dropped the ball immensely. Eh. I don't really have that much of a problem with it.
    I have no problems with Lana dating... I just hated how the writers went about it. You had Clark waiting for her and pining away... and she comes back with a boyfriend.... which of course creates drama and angst for our hero! it was always so soap opera-ish.... it made me feel like I was watching a soap instead of a TV show about a young man on his way to becoming a superhero. And, you seriously need to re-watch all the episodes with Lana's boyfriends in them. Trust me, Lana didn't exactly make it subtle that she had feelings for Clark in front them. Watch Jason's face when Lana went to the dance with Clark in this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm0jmV5eZj0 he had this look like his heart was being stomped all over on. It was shortly after that he started to freak out over the littlest things. I will agree that Lex never really had feelings for Lana. All he wanted was a family, he didn't really care who it was with as long as they were able to give him children. and yes, it was always all about Clark for Lex, never Lana.

    But you don't seem to understand why I object to people being used as plot devices... you see, I object to this kind of thing when it causes people to be "out of character" and makes their actions seem completely irrational in comparison to what they were like before. Espeically when the writers pop them back into their places and makes them act like they didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

    Example: Let's say it was canon on the TV show that a character is scared of being on airplanes, because she was once in a traumatic airplane crash. It would have to take a VERY GOOD reason to make that character come onto an airplane willingly, and even then she would need to be doped up on xanax so that she doesn't freak out while on there.
    Yet, some ****** writer completely ignores this fact about the character and decides that she should be on an airplane JUST BECAUSE! She's now literally no longer a character, but rather a plot device now. The writer is ignoring all character development in favor of having the female character do and say things that makes zero sense character-wise in favor of drama. The writers doesn't even realize that the viewers would be asking questions, such as: "how is it that this female character is on an airplane AND NOT FREAKING OUT? After all, everyone knows she's scared of airplanes!"
    Last edited by Aurora Moon; 03-22-2015 at 04:21 PM.

  15. #45
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora Moon View Post
    I will agree that Eddie is easily used as an plot device for pointless melodrama TOO, that it's not only Iris who's being used as a plot device. However, I tolerated it because:
    1)I thought he was related to the yellow flash in some way. Which he turns out to be, somewhat.
    2) Iris kept on insisting that there was really nothing between her and Barry Allen. that they were like siblings. so like a fool I believed her and thought that Eddie and Iris would be the typical couple who were completely faithful to each other. (until Barry Allen changed the timeline anyway).

    So it was easier for me to accept Eddie more because at least things from his viewpoint seems far more understandable than it is from Iris's end. His girlfriend says that her supposedly platonic friend is like a little brother to her or something like that. Okay, fine.... But then all of a sudden she starts flirting with Barry in front of him and Barry's date? NOT COOL.



    I have no problems with Lana dating... I just hated how the writers went about it. You had Clark waiting for her and pining away... and she comes back with a boyfriend.... which of course creates drama and angst for our hero! it was always so soap opera-ish.... it made me feel like I was watching a soap instead of a TV show about a young man on his way to becoming a superhero. And, you seriously need to re-watch all the episodes with Lana's boyfriends in them. Trust me, Lana didn't exactly make it subtle that she had feelings for Clark in front them. Watch Jason's face when Lana went to the dance with Clark in this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm0jmV5eZj0 he had this look like his heart was being stomped all over on. It was shortly after that he started to freak out over the littlest things. I will agree that Lex never really had feelings for Lana. All he wanted was a family, he didn't really care who it was with as long as they were able to give him children. and yes, it was always all about Clark for Lex, never Lana.

    But you don't seem to understand why I object to people being used as plot devices... you see, I object to this kind of thing when it causes people to be "out of character" and makes their actions seem completely irrational in comparison to what they were like before. Espeically when the writers pop them back into their places and makes them act like they didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

    Example: Let's say it was canon on the TV show that a character is scared of being on airplanes, because she was once in a traumatic airplane crash. It would have to take a VERY GOOD reason to make that character come onto an airplane willingly, and even then she would need to be doped up on xanax so that she doesn't freak out while on there.
    Yet, some ****** writer completely ignores this fact about the character and decides that she should be on an airplane JUST BECAUSE! She's now literally no longer a character, but rather a plot device now. The writer is ignoring all character development in favor of having the female character do and say things that makes zero sense character-wise in favor of drama. The writers doesn't even realize that the viewers would be asking questions, such as: "how is it that this female character is on an airplane AND NOT FREAKING OUT? After all, everyone knows she's scared of airplanes!"
    This entire statement ignores the very concept of character development. Iris didn't just randomly develop feelings, there was a time when she didn't think she felt that way about Barry. But Barry's confession made her reevaluate her feelings. It's a common trope. You don't have to like it. But that doesn't automatically make it bad.

    Clark's piney mopey attitude is NOT Lana's responsibility and never will be. Clark's feelings belong to him. No woman is to blame for any man's feelings. Blame Clark for what he does. Like I said, Lana's not a robot, she can't magically turn off her feelings. One off boyfriend's not knowing that she still feels something isn't some awful thing, neither is her being obvious. Cry me a river for poor wittle accomplice to murder Jason. And two episodes prior to that, Lucy, Lana found Jason attacking Lionel over the stone. So, don't tell me that he hadn't started freaking.

    Eddie being related to the Reverse-Flash doesn't excuse a character being a plot device. There's no reason to tolerate Eddie and not Iris.

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