Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)

[Backward Galaxy]

I guess they just wanted to add to the character's tragedy. Maybe the Emperor had him stay there because the bad memories would fuel the hate inside him further.

I found it a bit odd that he even lived on a planet. Haven't read any of the extended universe books but I thought he lived on his Star Destroyer at the time.

The entire OT, he worked from either a ship or the Death Star, but there was a draft of Empire where he lived in a castle.

[DA_Champion]

I think I read the castle was added in as a tie in to episode VIII, where Kylo Ren will go visit the castle.

[darkphoenix21]

Garth Edwards admits that there was another version of the ending to the film...

[SPOILER]"I think there was an early version [of the screenplay] — the very first version they didn't [die] in," he explained. "It was just assumed by us that we couldn't [kill the cast] and they're not gonna let us do that. So we're trying to figure out how this ends where that doesn't happen. And then everyone read that [first screenplay], and there was just this feeling of like, 'They gotta die, right?' And everyone was like, 'Yeah, can we?' And we thought we weren't gonna be allowed to, but Kathy [Kennedy, Lucasfilm president] and everyone at Disney were like, 'Yeah, makes sense.'"[/SPOILER]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...-ending-958057

[Backward Galaxy]

Had to happen. The film would have been meaningless otherwise.

[HalJordan4184]

Warm memories, I guess?

That was kind of stupid. It's where he was maimed, where he lost to Obi-Wan, and where he thinks Padme died. Why would he stay there?

One of the speculative ideas I read, was because he absolutely hates the place. He built his castle overlooking the spot he was maimed and lost his duel with Obi-Wan. He lives on Mustafar to continually fuel his hatred. It's a place he can't relax, unwind, or otherwise become unfocused. As a Sith, it keeps him at the heights of his power.

[Backward Galaxy]

Eh. I mean, from a dark poetic sense, that's fine, I guess. The Sith do draw their power from anger and hate. So even if he didn't want to be there, the Emperor could have even commanded him to build a base there to fuel that.

It's a good enough answer for me to acknowledge it as legit even if I don't personally buy it, I suppose.

[President_Luthor]

I was only spoiled by some minor details in the weeks leading up to it, but I don't think it would have affected my enjoyment of it either way. It is essentially the opening scroll of Episode IV.

I really enjoyed this movie, and while I agree it didn't have the "epic" scale of TFA I don't feel it ever intended to or needed to. It is a war movie, where people's allegiances, loyalties and truths they cling to are shifting in a galaxy rapidly descending into civil war. I expected the Rebellion to be a hodge-podge mix of militants and moderates, true believers and allies of convenience. Since it is a war, I was glad that the Rebels acknowledged that they have had to do some unscrupulous and morally grey things to achieve the Rebellion's objectives. Cassian was probably the most un-Disneylike lead hero in this regard, which is refreshing. I also found it believable that there would be conflict and tension within the Council around how the Rebels should proceed against such formidable odds.

It was bold of them to [SPOILER]wipe out the Rogue One crew, with no survivors.[/SPOILER] They could have done the typical Disney thing, wrapped a happy shiny bow around the ending aka their version of partying in the Ewok village, with Lando grooving to the rhythm -- but I agree this route would have made the story meaningless. The way they ended it was more than appropriate, it made their efforts matter. There are always going to be setbacks in war, even for the good guys (which is why I found it increasingly harder to digest some of the later expanded universe SW books ... it got repetitive to read stories about the Alliance winning the day again and again ). This movie brought home that there are going to be losses, sacrifices, difficult choices where you may be asked to compromise or sell your soul and the inevitable fallout: what they used to call the "butcher's bill" of dead and wounded at the end of a battle. To see the Rebels actually face the music against an Empire at the height of its power was more than fitting and realistic at this stage of the civil war. The Rebels got more than a slap on the wrist here.

I also liked the political tensions between Krennic and Tarkin(!). There's a whole Imperial game of thrones-like undercurrent going on -- they all serve the Emperor but each of them have personal agendas, rivalries and power plays going on. Vader let Krennic know who held all the aces in the hierarchy.

Darth Vader: If there was any doubt Vader was still the SW alpha villain, he put it to rest here. His picking Mustafar as the place he chose to hang his hat, er, helmet was surprising -- but I'm ok with the explanation that it's something he uses to fuel his Sith powers, even though he was fine fueling it aboard TIE fighters and star destroyers in the OT, but I'll roll with it.

Vader was a BMF. As it should be. That scene where he was this close to getting the plans -- awesome. (Kylo will have to bring it in Ep.VIII, if he hopes to get even a taste of some of that alpha villain Vader thunder.)

I didn't mind the cameos, I think there were enough to placate both old school OT fans like myself and those who grew up with the prequels. It leaned heavier towards OT tributes, but this was to be expected considering where the film lands in the timeline. Seeing a Leia cameo was bittersweet, considering today's news.

TFA is the standard bearer of the post-Ep.VI franchise, we expect it to be a spectacle that might not dwell on some of the smaller stories or minor characters. Rogue One is but one story in SW's grand saga. It had more grit and also a bit of a reality check -- it's still about a war, people are going to die ... and not only Imperials.

They probably could have fleshed out some of the Rogue One characters a bit more, but I was fine with how the movie turned out. Great fun.

[Glove]

Great writing, Luthor.

[President_Luthor]

What I also liked was that, by focusing on characters not directly linked to Han, Leia or Luke it played a part in enlarging the SW universe. It showed that you can tell a SW story just as interesting without having it revolve around the OT main characters.

There are factions within either side of the war: zealots, idealists, pragmatists, opportunists, etc.. Some had bigger roles to play in the larger good vs evil struggle, some were mere cogs in the system caught up in the crossfire with luck, choice or circumstance forcing their hand. They are all part of the saga too. Kinda like that Lower Decks ep on ST:TNG.

I was impressed they told a story we might have only expected to see in the novels a few years back, and that they were bold enough to take it to its tragic but ultimately hopeful conclusion.

And if Vader wanted his whole back inked with the phrase 'Rebellion's Worst Nightmare' or 'Number One Imperial O.G' no one could refuse him after this flick. He earned it, like a boss.

It's funny to think that the Rebel troops who escaped with the plans were only delaying their own deaths for awhile. Lucky is the dude who didn't volunteer to escort a princess and astromech droid.

"Rebel #1 : I'll pass on the consular ship duty. Bad indigestion. Off world Bantha milk was a bad idea.

Rebel #2: You sure? It'll be an easy gig. The Imperials won't dare attack a diplomatic vessel ..."

[DA_Champion]

The mixed reaction to this movie is interesting. A number of people hated it.

[President_Luthor]

I've read a number of reviews now that I've seen it, both from traditional media and fan sites and some blogs. They seem to be mostly positive. Rogue One is coming in at 85% fresh in RT.

If there were elements that didn't sit as well with them, it was that they wanted the cast of characters to be better fleshed out. In general terms, sure, they could have developed some of them better. It may have been a bigger issue had the Rogue One crew been expected to bear the weight of the franchise over several films. They're not, so I think they handled their place in the saga well enough.

Another alleged beef that some of the naysayers had was that it, like TFA, relied heavily on Episode IV nostalgia, influences, etc. This is the beef that holds less weight with me. They are telling the story that originally only covered a couple of lines in A New Hope's opening scroll. I was expecting them to make allusions to ANH and they largely worked, whereas TFA was at times too on the nose with their own ANH allusions ... and they could have used the long passage of time to maybe done something much less derivative. But this too would be a risk for the film expected to be the franchise's flag bearer.

TFA didn't veer too far from ANH out of a sense of caution, it was simply safer to stick with ANH's familiar themes, not knowing how audiences would receive it. With its success, maybe now they will be bolder and less reliant on OT allusions.

Rogue One couldn't veer far from ANH because the whole premise of the movie depends on an association with ANH. If Rogue One was a generic film, the movie would be a downer because the Empire kicked the Rebels' keesters despite Jyn and Co. achieving their goals. Knowing what we know of ANH, we know their mission was but one important stage in a much larger story with ramifications across the galaxy that Jyn and crew wouldn't have conceived. What they accomplished was that much sweeter because we know the effort will pay big dividends the moment Luke finds Leia's message in R2-D2.

The derivative charge RE: relying on ANH is far more applicable to TFA that it is to Rogue One, which actually takes place around ANH's era.

While I've read reviews where they had some issues with the above, I haven't read any where these were seen as deal-breakers that ruined the movie and made them hate it.

If there are reviews out there that despise it, they appear to be in the minority.

[DA_Champion]

The Plinkett review for Rogue One said that it had no redeeming qualities other than pretty explosions. They gave it a failing grade on all counts.

[President_Luthor]

No redeeming qualities and a failing grade on all counts? That'll be one review I'll take with a grain of salt.

Were there flaws in it? Sure, there were. Enough so that it ruined the whole movie? Not in my books. For many SW fans, this was the prequel to the OT that in many ways the Lucas prequels weren't.

Maybe some SW fans didn't like that it was less "hopeful" (out of the context of ANH, maybe it looks that way ... but within the context of ANH - it was hopeful or at least, hope on deferral til Ep.IV), or a war movie where they didn't gloss over the casualty rates on both sides, or that the Rebels didn't win the day. Maybe some SW fans want the Rebels to prevail all the time or don't like seeing them do things like shoot informants in the back to effect an escape.

I was fine with this film introducing a bit more grit and shades of grey in SW and portraying the Galactic Civil War as more than some conflict that happens in the background while Luke figures out his hero's journey. A bill (which the ANH opening scroll alluded to) had to be paid for Luke and friends to take that destiny-defining journey in ANH and this film showed that the Rogue One crew paid a heavy one.

Judging it as a standalone sci-fi flick and subtracting any SW context from it, some people might make the case that it was merely a serviceable movie by itself. Within the context of the original trilogy, however, it was a pretty solid SW story -- a chapter or subplot in a much grander saga. I would say that this film has to be viewed within this context, and not as just a film that happens in a bubble or vacuum without any ANH connection.

[DA_Champion]

I agree with everything you wrote, nevertheless I'm perplexed by the moderately-sized backlash to this movie. Many smart people are hating it or dismissing it.

[President_Luthor]

It is perplexing.

Maybe they feel Rogue One doesn't have the "flavour" of a SW movie that TFA or even the prequels had, or it was unpalatable that Cassian was hardly the icon of honour they want their Rebel heroes to be, etc. Han may have shot Greedo first, but Cassian shot a dude in the back. We could say both kills were out of self-preservation. It's cool when Han does it, but it's bad for Cassian in their eyes. I don't know, maybe they genuinely don't like a SW story that isn't a full-fledged sequel.

A case could be made that this flick is for dyed-in-the-wool fans and not newbies. I wouldn't introduce the franchise to a SW neophyte with Rogue One, but I would totally recommend it to the already converted.