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Your single biggest problem with Season 3 (if you have one)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by DoubleDevil
    If one can not hold a constructive dialog with somebody then sometimes one must redirect the anger back towards the person so that when he/she sits and contemplates what was said they recognize they themselves aren't exactly purely the victim but also had an active part in what occurred. Let them recognize themselves the lightbulb their anger has been hiding from them that'll then light up and show them more of the picture. It's called "a wake up call". Admitted it doesn't always work. I'm sure Quentin knows deep down he is in part to blame for everything that has happened his anger is simply looking for somebody other than himself to blame for it (much like an addict looks for fault everywhere else but themselves and Quentin is an addict). As for ineptitude, difference is Oliver is a rookie of 2+ years at his hobby of crimefighting while Quentin is a paid professional with 20+ years. Ineptitude among rookies is a given even if it's their job, ineptitude at a hobby even more so. Even taking into account Oliver's 5 years of "training" prior to returning to Starling City crimefighting is nothing more than a passtime activity (which he happens to do fulltime) for Oliver. It's once again an acceptance of differing standards for people, I don't expect somebody who does something for s**** and giggles to be nearly as good at it as somebody actually trained and paid to do it, let alone the veteran statis vs a rookie.
    Qualifications have nothing to do with it. Nonsensical actions and decisions do.

    And that kind of attitude isn't the way to approach something. I don't see why Quentin would blame himself in any way. Beyond him not taking in Arrow/Oliver sooner and helping him.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Dagenspear
      Qualifications have nothing to do with it. Nonsensical actions and decisions do.

      And that kind of attitude isn't the way to approach something. I don't see why Quentin would blame himself in any way. Beyond him not taking in Arrow/Oliver sooner and helping him.
      And why should Oliver blame himself for Tommy's Death? Or Sara's? Or Moira's? They all died because I'm still breathing? Actually all three are much more Laurel's fault than Oliver's, Tommy was in the wrong place trying to save Laurel, Sara was distracted by talking to Laurel to notice somebody sneaking up on her, and Laurel getting Sara grounded to "steal" Oliver is what put Sara on the "Queen's Gambit" with Oliver which lead to the Sara/Shado decision that messed up Slade. Sometimes people feel guilt for things that happen far beyond their control and that's what Quentin is throwing at Oliver, why isn't Oliver allowed to throw it back at Quentin? Is the real reason for the high crime rate in Starling City because of corruption far beyond Quentin's control or has his ineptitude as a police officer aided in the increase? The only reason Quentin is Captain, and actually has a chance to correct things, is because of what he has done while working with the Arrow.

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      • #48
        One of the things that I don't like about this season is Diggle can tell Oliver something and it doesn't get through. However if Felicity tells him the same exact thing its like a light has been turned on inside of Oliver and he understands it prefectly because Felicity told him.

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        • #49
          When I look back at this season -- and there are things to love about it -- it'll be the OOC melodrama-driven moments with Ollie and Felicity that will count as a season-long beef for me in S3. How many times has Diggle saved Ollie's bacon and steered him out of trouble, this should have bought him a level of trust that Ollie can count on. If anything, if Diggle and Felicity gave identical advice it should be Diggle's that holds more weight. When it doesn't, esp. when it's the exact same advice, and Ollie opts to listen to Felicity (the only motivation being to fuel/spark more Olicity) all it does is make Ollie look ... clueless. Like, SV Clark clueless. What might have been excusable in S1 is not in S3. Where would S3 Ollie be without Diggle's common sense and Felicity's undying faith/love in him -- if this sounds ridiculous, it should. Sure, no man is an island and Ollie should be open to advice but after three seasons, it would be nice if Ollie had more of his crap together without needing Felicity to set him straight. Ollie and Felicity are fine as separate, unattached characters. As a couple? I'm tempted to cast my lot with Ra's and the LOA if it means breaking them up for good.

          I like the big picture idea of broadening the DC TV universe and the need to provide newer heroes (ATOM, Firestorm etc.) a platform to launch from. But I always get nervous when the idea of "more is merrier" becomes trendy in these shows. I may be in the minority in contrast to the fanbase that thinks throwing a barrelful of superheroes into the mix is by default "good", but more is merrier should also mean better re: character development, not just as fan easter eggs The latter seasons of SV were all about shout-outs to DC superheroes -- never mind that Clark was still not ready to accept the Superman mantle -- and it wasn't all to Clark's own benefit re: development. I think they're handling it better in Arrow, and Routh seems up to the task, but I'd still want them to tread carefully here.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Tabularasa
            The show is too dark and overly serious now with just about every character brooding. Felicity used to be a quirky and funny character and now it feels like all she does is cry.

            A lot of shows bounce back after a bad season, so I have no doubt they'll get their act together for season 4. Season 3 is just so disappointing considering I loved season 2.
            Agree. Every time I see Felicity come on screen now I cringe. Her voice always sounds "warbly" and she looks like she's about to cry. All the time. I miss S1 Felicity. I wish they would send Felicity over to either the Flash or to the new spinoff. Permanently.

            There have been other problems too but at least they're not always on the screen every episode, like Felicity (the other problems kind of take turns rotating in and out of the show). It feels very much like the writers have decided to shove (as others have described it) Felicity melodrama into every episode. Problem is, there's usually not really any need for Felicity melodrama. I feel like the writers have been distracted by Olicity and given it way too much time.

            On a more pleasant note, though, I'm surprised by how much I've started to like Laurel. Really disliked her S1 & S2 and thought her character was irredeemable. But I give the writers credit for turning her around. She's now one of my favorite characters (tho' they did make her screw up the part about telling Quentin about Sarah....)

            I too hope that S4 will be better. Kind of given up on S3.....

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Shelby Kent
              On a more pleasant note, though, I'm surprised by how much I've started to like Laurel. Really disliked her S1 & S2 and thought her character was irredeemable. But I give the writers credit for turning her around. She's now one of my favorite characters (tho' they did make her screw up the part about telling Quentin about Sarah....)
              I agree with you that Laurel's story arc is one of the best things in overall the weakest of all three seasons. I can't say I disliked Laurel before (except maybe for that short time in S2 with her crazy vendetta against the Arrow) but for most of time I didn't care much about her. There were some good subplots and episodes with her in the previous seasons, I liked her with Tommy and definitely started to like her more after she found out Oliver's secret and gave him her full support when he needed it the most, but her best time is in season 3. The Black Canary's story arc was handled pretty well - not perfect, but I think that she has proved that she fully deserves her sister's mantle and I really like her relationship with Oliver right now.

              As for Felicity - I think she is like salt - without salt every dish tastes bland. But when there is too much salt a dish becames inedible... I miss season 1 Felicity as well.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Amarice
                As for Felicity - I think she is like salt - without salt every dish tastes bland. But when there is too much salt a dish becames inedible... I miss season 1 Felicity as well.
                I see her as a Sauce, not Salt. Not everyone likes the same Sauce, and some like a little, some like a load, but almost everyone can agree that the sauce on it's own isn't nice.

                Brown Sauce, Tomato Sauce, Barbecue Sauce... whatever. the writers are plating more sauce than chips, here...


                and now I'm hungry.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Felicity....and Oliciy

                  Season 1 and 2, I didn't care one way or another about Felicity and in Sara's words, she was kinda cute. She would say or do something stupid. I would chuckle and be like 'Bless your heart Felicity.' (Not a compliment in the South.) Season 3 Felicity drives me up the wall with her 'Hoiler than thou' attitude and her general bratty behavior.
                  But what really gets me is that every single Olicity moment in this season, except for the episode 1 date, jars the pacing of each episode and comes at the cost of being able to see another characters development on screen. On the first first issue, its like I'm watching two separate shows: the urban crime drama (the show I want to watch) and then the Olcity fanfiction show. Unforutnately these two shows don't seemlessly flow the arc of the season along. Second issue: Arrow only is only a 42-43 minute show outside of commercials and the intro and credits so there's already very little time to devote to other characters while hunting down the villian of the week or dealing with the big bad. So much of Laurel's, Roy's, Thea's, Malcom's, Ray's and even Oliver's development has been quickly glossed over or happens off screen so an Olicity moment can happen on screen. The lack of on screen development for both Laurel and Malcome just kills me. These are two huge characters that are an integral part of the Green Arrow mythos in both the comics and Arrow and to have them, especially Laurel, constantly sidelined to fan pandering hurts.
                  Hopefully the showrunners will see that not everyone is an Olicity fan and it hasn't done anything for the arc of season 3 and will recalibrate for Season 4.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Shelby Kent
                    On a more pleasant note, though, I'm surprised by how much I've started to like Laurel. Really disliked her S1 & S2 and thought her character was irredeemable. But I give the writers credit for turning her around. She's now one of my favorite characters (tho' they did make her screw up the part about telling Quentin about Sarah....)
                    Laurel's rushed transition into Black Canary is the worst part of Season 3
                    ror me. Wholly unbelievable. Maybe if Ted Grant had stuck around to train her...

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by tua33915
                      Laurel's rushed transition into Black Canary is the worst part of Season 3
                      ror me. Wholly unbelievable. Maybe if Ted Grant had stuck around to train her...
                      It was rushed like most subplots in season 3. I also think that she had put on the costume too early, but overall her transition to Black Canary is still IMO one of few things which works in this season.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by DoubleDevil
                        And why should Oliver blame himself for Tommy's Death? Or Sara's? Or Moira's? They all died because I'm still breathing? Actually all three are much more Laurel's fault than Oliver's, Tommy was in the wrong place trying to save Laurel, Sara was distracted by talking to Laurel to notice somebody sneaking up on her, and Laurel getting Sara grounded to "steal" Oliver is what put Sara on the "Queen's Gambit" with Oliver which lead to the Sara/Shado decision that messed up Slade. Sometimes people feel guilt for things that happen far beyond their control and that's what Quentin is throwing at Oliver, why isn't Oliver allowed to throw it back at Quentin? Is the real reason for the high crime rate in Starling City because of corruption far beyond Quentin's control or has his ineptitude as a police officer aided in the increase? The only reason Quentin is Captain, and actually has a chance to correct things, is because of what he has done while working with the Arrow.
                        Aw poor Sara, her sister got her into trouble, so that gives her an excuse to engage in an affair with her sister's boyfriend. No wait, that's the opposite of the true. Sara chose her actions. And nothing Laurel did justifies them. Especially considering people aren't objects.

                        The difference is Oliver actually did real bad things.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I see that the posters here, just like on most other forums, have major problems with season three, both when it comes to the general plotting/characterization, and when it comes to Olicity (or at least to how it has been written in S3). My problem (or fear!) is that the critique from the non-shipper fandom is irrelevant to the showrunners and that they have become so beholden to the Felicity/Olicity fandom that they will continue their choosen path, especially since the ratings this season have been good, in fact, even better than last seasons. So, since Guggenheim mostly chooses to interact with the Olicity fans on twitter and tumblr, and since Felicity has become his Lana, I have a feeling that season four will continue the season three formula, probably without a love triangle, but with lots of Olicity angst to keep the shippers happy and for the free PR that they bring to the show/network.

                          So, I predict that this will be the formula from now on: focus on Oliver/Felicity and their epic love saga, scenes that subtly reinforce the idea what Oliciters call "The Original Team Arrow" (because these two things are what Guggenheim's favorite demographic wants), some Laurel/BC action to satisfy her fans (and at least stay somewhat true to comic book canon), but not too much REAL interaction with Oliver/TA because we don't want to disturb the Olicity illusion/the idea that TA is an exclusive F/D/O club. For example, I very much doubt that we will see Black Canary and Green Arrow fighting together as THE team, although this is comic book canon. As many Olicity shippers like to point out, the TV version is a totally different thing from the comics, and Black Canary is not an important part of the current TV version, which is OLIVER's story (and HIS story is now irrevocably tied to Felicity's and Diggle's, while BC is at best a free agent with her own storylines).I don't know where Thea/Speedy fits into all this, but since the Olicity demographic seems to find her more acceptable, she might be allowed some more interaction with the OTA club.


                          If we add melodramatic, illogical pots, with plot premises that are never really followed up, "game changers" that don't feel like game changers because they are too easily resolved (Ollie's stabbing-miraculous recovery), poor handling of the Big Bads, gratitious shots/scenes that are only there to please a certain fanbase (reaction shots of Felicity looking sadly at the fallen FERN), I'm not too optimistic about season four.


                          This is a highly exaggerated prediction, but if season four is going to follow the formula of season three, I don't think it is THAT far from the truth. If you rewatch season one episodes, or watch old interviews, you'll realize that "Arrow" has morphed into something very different than it was probably intended to be. Unless Guggenheim undergoes a major transformation as a showrunner, I think he will continue the present course, especially since ratings are good and he gets praise from both fans (at least from the fans that he interacts the most with) and reviewers.


                          This new version of "Arrow" is not an improvement in my eyes, so if the show doesn't pick up, I'll probably find another show to obsess about. Fortunately there are other superhero shows that are much more promising right now, so I can still get my fix of comic book action.


                          Now, this may seem a little butthurt, especially for those members who know that I am a Laurel fan, and that I enjoyed the season one Lauriver romance. On the other hand, I have accepted that Laurel and Oliver won't be romantically involved, and I actually think she is better off alone at this stage of her hero journey. What I find a little harder to accept is the exclusion of Laurel from most important Team Arrow scenes: she didn't get to say goodbye to Roy, and she wasn't even informed about such a pivotal event as Thea's near-death condition, or that Oliver would join the League. How could she, when she only got about two minutes screen time in the last two episodes?

                          Even if Laurel long ceased to be Oliver's beloved, she still IS an important person in his and Theas life, and the writers'/producers treatment of one of their main characters and their lead actress in these last two episodes does not bode well for season four. I have accepted Olicity, but I don't want to see other characters sacrificed at the altar of Olicity, especially since very few fans apart from the hardcore oliciters are very happy about the season three Felicity/Olicity focus (which inevitably impacts on the other characters' storylines and screen time) anyway. There was apparently a goodbye scene between Oliver and Laurel in "The Fallen" that was deleted, although it showed an important development of their relationship...but I guess the director really needed to spend the extra seconds on that O/F sex scene! Sorry about the sarcasm, but when I feel that the producers/writers are constructing their stories/scenes/episodes with the aim of pleasing a specific fanbase, the storytelling doesn't feel organic anymore. My predictions may be too bleak, but this is my worst-case scenario!

                          Part of this post is a cross-post, hope that's OK!
                          Last edited by evaba; 04-28-2015, 08:03 AM.

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                          • #58
                            personally, I hope that The Flash does a time-trip thing that screws with events of season 3 so that, well, stuff happened but... as Oliver finds out in the aftermath, he's supposedly with Laurel, not Felicity, who is with the Atom, and she's angsting about choosing to stay with team arrow and having a long distance relationship, instead of moving, and still supporting Team Arrow, but just at a distance... and around that, supporting her boyfriend, *Ray Palmer*...
                            and this oliver doesn't remember that one, this oliver remembers the events that we've watched... yet by all accounts, he was supposedly happier with Laurel, closer with his sister after he trained her, glad for the league to have captured Merlin, and sara still be alive...

                            I would honestly by surprised, if this was the crossover event's time twister... (so basically, the takedowns, the 'fall from grace' etc, but with different spins: Captain Lance looses his job over his support of the Arrow instead of running the show against him, Roy gave himself up before oliver did, so there's never that niggle that Oliver is the Arrow, Sara is the one who talked Oliver into accepting the position... and there never was a member of the league called Sarab.... Laurel's transformation into Black Canary is from Sara training her, instead of dying and her loss driving Laurel to it... etc etc.)

                            ... I'll be gutted if it wasn't that big.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Haggard01
                              One of the things that I don't like about this season is Diggle can tell Oliver something and it doesn't get through. However if Felicity tells him the same exact thing its like a light has been turned on inside of Oliver and he understands it prefectly because Felicity told him.
                              i was going to post this too! Olicity is so so contrived!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                My biggest problem with season three is - what just happened?

                                Let's see. Sara got killed, then a valentine archer bugged Ollie for a minute. Thea decided to break from Malcolm. RAG wanted Ollie to be RAG. Nyssa was mad cause Sara was dead. Dig is mad at Ollie cause stuff. No Helena. Suicide Squad was fun. Some Damien Dark did some things behind the scenes and stuff happened. Oliver doesn't know who he is but now he's happy. Ollie should be dead, but he isn't. Why was the US army running around in HK, wouldn't that be some kind of international situation? Is Ted Grant dead? Where is Roy?

                                How does this all tie together? I don't really know.

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