View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - I will "Return" to watch this episode again and again!

    15 38.46%
  • 9

    8 20.51%
  • 8

    7 17.95%
  • 7

    3 7.69%
  • 6

    1 2.56%
  • 5

    1 2.56%
  • 4

    2 5.13%
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  • 1 - Return to Sender

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  1. #31
    Somewhere in Time Who's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    She could have been out of college because she graduated in 2009, The flashbacks were the beginning of 2010 because it was five years ago.
    How much time has passed since Ollie was lost? Some time has passed all ready by the time he gets back to Starling City at that point. Two years maybe? So it would have been 3 years instead of 5?

    Almost thought Diggle's brother running into Oliver would have been the reason he gets a hit put out on him but it didn't happen.

  2. #32
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Who View Post
    How much time has passed since Ollie was lost? Some time has passed all ready by the time he gets back to Starling City at that point. Two years maybe? So it would have been 3 years instead of 5?

    Almost thought Diggle's brother running into Oliver would have been the reason he gets a hit put out on him but it didn't happen.
    The "Island" flashbacks are always 5 years behind present day.

  3. #33
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    I thought this was a very character-driven episode, which was good. The flashbacks were interesting, though some of the retcons others have mentioned gave me pause and were a little strange and unnecessary. I'm so glad that Oliver told Thea about her killing Sara because it needed to come out. Not so happy that we are still getting the secrets and lies when he asks her not to tell Laurel. Have these people learned nothing from the last three seasons? Secrets come out eventually and the longer you wait, the worse it is.

    It definitely requires a suspension of disbelief that Oliver would wander around Starling unnoticed and that he would just happen to see that conversation between Thea and Tommy, but it packed enough emotional punch that I'm willing to roll with it.

    I thought that flashback!Quentin was pretty awful to Laurel though. I get that he is grieving and grappling with a drinking problem, but there was definitely some verbal abuse going on there. It's a wonder that they were as close as they were in season one. As for the last scene... well, my heart broke for Laurel, but it was honestly not undeserved based on how long she kept the secret about Sara and the lengths she went to to hide it. I hope that we get to see them working through their issues though.

    The flashbacks also made me really miss Tommy. And Moira. It's a shame that they could get Susanna Thompson back for this one.

    I also liked Oliver and Thea double-teaming Slade on the island.

    All in all, even with the flaws, this was one of the better episodes of the season in my opinion.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Even if it was dislocated and put back in place, would you still be able to fight like that?

    It reminded me of when Malcolm beat Oliver up in the penultimate episode of Season One but Oliver still managed to beat him in the season finale.
    It's certainly possible. I've popped my shoulder out before and then popped it back in then continued to play the sport I was playing at the time. It hurt like all hell but as shown early in this season, pain is something Thea can deal with now easily.

  5. #35
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    awful episode really.

    Slade got too little screentime and his confrontation with Oliver was a MAJOR letdown.
    Also as people have pointed out, so many plotholes. how did malcolm get to the super secret argus prison and free slade without anyone at argus realising... also when did this supposedly take place?

    i must mention the oliver and felicity fan pandering. It's one of the things that ruined the show for me.

  6. #36
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    Just writing to say I found the date for Oliver's infiltration of QC: February 1st, which is Tommy's birthday. This is, of course, assuming that his party was on his actual birthday.... one never knows.

    Another thing I liked was that Quentin called Laurel 'Black Canary' at Sara's grave.

  7. #37
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    it would hurt, i had a friend who dislocated his shoulder one time, i was there when it happened. But the thing is, in this context, the magic of adrenalin overrides a lot of the pain - but after the fight, they both probably collapsed for a week lol

  8. #38
    Settling In Fletching's Avatar
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    I think a better Felicity cameo would have been if she was down in the IT basement and she detected Oliver logging into the computer in the CEO's office. Then, she has to fast talk a security guard to convince him to check it out. The two of them find nothing and Felicity sulks back to the IT floor muttering something about how she loves dead people or [fill in classic Felicity quirky line of your own.]

  9. #39
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    This was a solid character development ep., one of the strongest this season. Plot-wise it was a bit light, but the character growth was worth the price in my books.

    Thea: this was her turning a corner. She is neither the whiny drug-addled teen from the past nor the blind Malcolm disciple any longer. She sensed Ollie was lying -- and fished the truth out of him. While it does suck that he managed to get her to keep the truth a secret from Laurel re: killing Sara, the fallout of this will be on Ollie. Thea's speech to Malcolm drove the point home that she is going to be her own person now. There was no way she could ever go back to being his daughter after learning she was the instrument of Sara's death. It's Malcolm and Ollie who are maintaining the illusion that the ends (cooperating to take down Ra's) justifies the means (killing, trusting a proven enemy).

    Quentin was understandably upset about Laurel keeping Sara's death a secret, but the melodrama and angst-o-rama in that scene wasn't to my taste. (TPTB let it drag on for far too long - this should have been resolved by the midseason finale at the latest.)

    I'd also agree that I don't want Quentin to regress and (re)start blaming the Arrow for all the calamities he's brought upon the House of Lance. He's in Jim Gordon turf - he's got to know Ollie = Arrow but for the greater good isn't letting on. Who'd have thought Quentin would bear the lion's share of the melodrama this ep.?

    Kudos to Laurel for emptying the bottle of liquor -- at this point bringing up her addiction issues is ancient baggage. I took that scene as putting an end to it as an (old) gripe. Like Ollie's really old issues as a fratboy lothario, it's stale news brought up only to be exploited for melodramatic reasons. 'The CW: Cliches at Work'

    It was good to see some familiar faces, including Tommy. Colin Donnell is easily one of the strongest performers in the Arrow cast. While is character's death was arguably a necessary catalyst, his absence is still a loss to the show. He could be saddled with some of the soapiest subplots (more so in S1) but he could sell it as an actor. I kind of wish he'd get a dip in the Lazarus Pit and be brought back to life.

    A couple of glitches in an otherwise really good ep.:

    -Ollie lurking about Starling City might not have been his choice, but what did he possibly think he was going to accomplish going to Tommy's house party, with the insanely likely odds someone could identify him? Tommy had it covered re: having Thea's back, there was really no need for Ollie to say I had Thea's back too (but can't tell her). His being back in town years before his official return is another big secret he is keeping from everyone. File that secret under 'big lies for future melodramatic use', right beside the 'Ollie has a baby out there' file. I had to wear my suspension of disbelief hat during this scene. It was funny Maseo called him out on his lame hoodie disguise. (Subtextually, I think Maseo was also calling out his ridiculous flashback hair.)

    -The "flashback" Olicity scene. Let's call a spade a spade. It was fan service, shipper pandering, call it what you will. They unnecessarily retconned their initial encounter, and for what reason other than to throw the shippers a bone.

    -Slade, while his reappearance was cool, seemed to be rusty on the combat front. I can accept that his skills might have dulled a bit during his time in prison, but this is Deathstroke. People forget his background (on the show anyway) was Australian SAS or other elite special forces. It may be fine that Ollie and Thea having a gun was an equalizer, it's just that I expected Ollie and/or Thea to get more of a beating.

    9/10 ... due mostly to the solid character progression. Point docked for the usual suspects: secrets-'n-lies melodrama and the retconned Olicity catering.

  10. #40
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Thank god a lot of people noticed the freshly hired IT girl that happens to be extremely talented is roaming the CEO's office after hours without security all over her with bells, whistles and sirens which would land her at the very least without a job at QC. Nobody mentioned the other Olicity service, for somebody that uses 90% of his brain it's hard to believe Slade Wilson wouldn't have figured out that Oliver tricked him into believing he had feelings for Felicity in order for her to get close enough to him to give him the mirakuru cure, I mean Oliver leaves her in the house Slade has cameras in to find out for the first time that Oliver "loves" Felicity only to get the cure injected to him once she gets close enough to him and he's distracted? Instead Slade is given lines to support Olicity and make him look like an idiot only using 2% of his brain, if that much.

    Thea was very strong this episode, haven't been a big fan of hers but this episode has got me rooting for her. She'll make for a very strong female on the show I'd be willing to tune in to watch (if they finally kill the Olicity pandering).

    Liked how they tied in Robert's message to Oliver, very well timed (not hard seeing it was the same episode) and compelling.

    Missed seeing Moira and Walter, liked the nod to Diggle and would've preferred to have seen something from Roy instead of the pandering with a retconned Felicity.

  11. #41
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    Overall, I enjoyed this episode. It was good to see Oliver opening up more to Thea as well as letting her know the truth about her role in Sara's death. However, if Oliver knew he had set booby-traps on the island, it didn't make sense he didn't mention it to her especially when he left her alone to check on Slade.

    Now, I have a better understanding why Laurel was so reluctant to tell her father about Sara’s death. Not only was she afraid the news might kill him literally but if he lived, it might kill him figuratively. The first time Sara “died”, she watched her father descend into an angry self destructive drunk who was a jerk to her. Sadly, her courage to finally tell her father the truth came a little too late. Now, she has lost his trust and must face his wrath.

    It was also sad to see she got the moniker Black Canary vs. Canary from her father and that name came from a place of anger not love. I just hope Quentin will see, as misguided as they were, Laurel's intentions were out of love for him and he can find it in his heart to forgive her. In the meantime, Laurel must accept the damage she has done and proactively work to rebuild the trust she lost.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Initial thoughts only:

    2. Slade's words about telling the truth about Shado seemed to indicate what some have speculated: that his hatred for Oliver stems not from the fact he saved Sara, but because he went along with Sara's lie and kept reinforcing it until Ivo twisted it around. Makes you wonder if he would have turned on Oliver regardless, or if it was simply a case of Oliver's trusting someone he knew/loved even when he knew they were in the wrong (this is a recurring theme for Oliver).
    I thought about that too. I think that it is both. That he "chose" Sara over Shado and that he lied about it. Last season in the flashbacks when Oliver explained to Slade what happened he replied with, "I don't care." Combine what happened with Oliver's lies and you get one crazy Slade Wilson, blaming Oliver and hell bent on revenge.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Ya know, I knew something was off about the flashbacks, but I couldn't put my finger on it. The above reviewers have managed to point it out, though: Felicity. Now, here's the timeline people:

    - The Gambit goes down between September and November of 2007.
    - Slade, Shado, and Oliver destroy Fyers' missile launcher and kill the mercs in May 2008.
    - Amazo arrives in October 2008.
    - Amazo sinks in May 2009.
    - At some point in 2009, Felicity graduates MIT, gets hired on at QC
    - February 2010, Oliver infiltrates QC and sees Felicity.

    The problem with the above timeline is Felicity would have been, at best, a new hire with a few months under her belt and therefore unlikely to be delivering anything to the boss' office, especially after-hours, unless you want to imply she's an ***-kisser. As others have also stated, Oliver himself stated THIS SEASON that the first time he saw her was the whole 'chewing the red pen' moment.

    This scene was nothing more than pandering to the Olicity fans, and I'm frankly getting tired of it. It's scenes like this that make me want them to write the character off the show, and I don't care if it's because she chooses to leave or dies. I liked the character in Season 1 and 2, and I love the fact the actress is a big nerd herself, but the forceful shoving of Olicity down everyone's throats to satisfy a loud and obnoxious minority has long lost its amusement factor.
    Well here's something I thought of. If they want to recon Oliver seeing Felicity for he first time and her mention "Ollie's" cute which means he was manipulating her emotionally from the start to get information.

  14. #44
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    Malcolm provided us with yet another example of what a jerk he can be by releasing Slade and endangering not only Oliver, but his own daughter as well. I'm glad that Thea seems to be done with her father.

  15. #45
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    I really enjoyed this episode. Enjoyed the sibling bonding. The only part I didn't like is at the beginning of the episode, where it showed Oliver & Thea "stick-fighting" you can clearly see it wasn't Willa. And the quick closeup shots of her, she looks almost scared she's going to get hit. Yes, it's a nitpick, but my brain tends to notice such details.

    Which is why it is forcing me to comment on what most are saying about the Felicity scene.

    Yes, it was a bone for the "Olicity" fans.

    No, it wasn't a retcon. As already stated, Felicity graduated in 09'. A year is plenty of time for her to get hired at QC. No, it isn't strange for her to be delivering something to a exec. office. A new hire would lend oneself to being seen as little more than a "gofer" by some. So, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that Felicity was asked or more likely told to drop some paperwork off.

    Some have said that Oliver has stated that the first time they met was in her office.

    He actually didn't. In the conversation, Oliver tells Felicity during the time he was missing, he was never able to trust anyone fully. So, after a while he started to seeing everyone as either a "threat" or a "target". He tells her that when he stepped into her office, it was the first time he saw a person as a "person", not a "threat or "target". He then says, that there was "just something about her". So, no retcon.

    It was also suggested that after Felicity's "cute" comment, Oliver was emotionally manipulating Felicity for info. Not necessarily, nothing was shown to suggest that Oliver knew her name. Years later when he was looking for help to get information off that bullet riddled laptop, he was told Felicity Smoak was the person to go to. When he saw who Felicity Smoak was, it could have just as easily been a pleasant surprise to him, remembering the woman who without knowing it, made him smile during a very trying time in his life.

    Oh, just for the record. It would have been cool to see Walter in the flashback.
    Last edited by historybuff77; 02-25-2015 at 12:19 AM.

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