View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - I will "Return" to watch this episode again and again!

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  • 7

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  • 6

    1 2.56%
  • 5

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  1. #16
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArrowFan1988 View Post
    Also, Felicity should not have been there, as she still was a student back then.
    She could have been out of college because she graduated in 2009, The flashbacks were the beginning of 2010 because it was five years ago.

  2. #17
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    For the love of Grodd, how could an episode with Deathstroke be so boring??? So, the Queen family goes camping and runs into uncle Slade, who instead of being a vicious killer quickly gets his hat handed to him , and is coward by a girl with a gun. NO!!!!! A total waste of Slade Wilson. The rest of the episode was just fan service, and was filled with plot holes as pointed out by several other posters.

  3. #18
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    Ya know, I knew something was off about the flashbacks, but I couldn't put my finger on it. The above reviewers have managed to point it out, though: Felicity. Now, here's the timeline people:

    - The Gambit goes down between September and November of 2007.
    - Slade, Shado, and Oliver destroy Fyers' missile launcher and kill the mercs in May 2008.
    - Amazo arrives in October 2008.
    - Amazo sinks in May 2009.
    - At some point in 2009, Felicity graduates MIT, gets hired on at QC
    - February 2010, Oliver infiltrates QC and sees Felicity.

    The problem with the above timeline is Felicity would have been, at best, a new hire with a few months under her belt and therefore unlikely to be delivering anything to the boss' office, especially after-hours, unless you want to imply she's an ***-kisser. As others have also stated, Oliver himself stated THIS SEASON that the first time he saw her was the whole 'chewing the red pen' moment.

    This scene was nothing more than pandering to the Olicity fans, and I'm frankly getting tired of it. It's scenes like this that make me want them to write the character off the show, and I don't care if it's because she chooses to leave or dies. I liked the character in Season 1 and 2, and I love the fact the actress is a big nerd herself, but the forceful shoving of Olicity down everyone's throats to satisfy a loud and obnoxious minority has long lost its amusement factor.

  4. #19
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    I don't watch Arrow regularly and I haven't followed it enough at all to know if the history of the show holds up. As such, if there was serious retconning going on in this episode, I have no way of knowing.

    That said, I thought this was some of the strongest character work in an episode of Arrow that I've ever seen (I've probably only watched about ~15% of the episodes). The characters were very dramatic, yes, but they all seemed to be doing things that made sense. For example, Laurel's father was vicious in his criticisms of everyone, but most of what he said felt like what a real person in his situation would feel. He's angry, hurt, disappointed, and also trying to help all at the same time, but because he's also so devastated, this all comes out in the worst way possible as an all out attack on even the one person in the world he loves most of all. It was remarkably solid.

    I also like that they didn't make Thea a complete moron in this episode. She wanted answers from Oliver and she kept at him over and over again until he finally relented. When Slade said that Oliver was keeping secrets from her, she knew Slade was right based on looking at Oliver and gauging his reaction. She didn't just make a decision to not believe Slade because he's a murdering psychopath and so the show could continue to pretend like it has secrets worth keeping. She also didn't make the decision to believe Slade just for no other reason than to form a wedge between her and Oliver. She actually made an observation, based on Amell's performance, that led her to her conclusion. It's a very subtle thing that moves the plot forward in the same exact way, BUT it's better writing and acting.

    I liked the episode.

  5. #20
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    Another thing that bugged me:

    How were Oliver and Thea able to fight so well against Slade when Oliver had a spike driven through his shoulder and Thea had her arm fractured?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Another thing that bugged me:

    How were Oliver and Thea able to fight so well against Slade when Oliver had a spike driven through his shoulder and Thea had her arm fractured?
    Why do you think Thea's arm was fractured? I thought it had been dislocated from the socket and then put back into place afterwards.

    Also, if this bothers you, never watch the animated "Son of Batman". If I'm recalling correctly, there's a scene where Damian pulls two swords completely through both of his arms and continues to fight.

  7. #22
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    Just another thing that popped in my head: anyone else curious as to what Robert's message for Thea was? We clearly saw he left not only a message for Oliver, but a message for Thea as well. Hopefully they just don't ignore that....

  8. #23
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Just another thing that popped in my head: anyone else curious as to what Robert's message for Thea was? We clearly saw he left not only a message for Oliver, but a message for Thea as well. Hopefully they just don't ignore that....
    It might be that he knows that Thea wasn't his daughter.

    I'm sure they might show it later.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward Galaxy View Post
    Why do you think Thea's arm was fractured? I thought it had been dislocated from the socket and then put back into place afterwards.

    Also, if this bothers you, never watch the animated "Son of Batman". If I'm recalling correctly, there's a scene where Damian pulls two swords completely through both of his arms and continues to fight.
    Even if it was dislocated and put back in place, would you still be able to fight like that?

    It reminded me of when Malcolm beat Oliver up in the penultimate episode of Season One but Oliver still managed to beat him in the season finale.

  10. #25
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    Too many flashbacks for me. What I did like is Thea is no really pissed at Malcolm. So I hope they don't have Thea and Oliver train with Malcolm for too long I would rather rather.
    I want to see Oliver and Thea fight Ra's and kill him so the writer can get on with other stories for the show.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Even if it was dislocated and put back in place, would you still be able to fight like that?
    Actually, I think you might. Not without pain, but if it was done right... I've seen football players gets limbs popped back into their socket and keep playing.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward Galaxy View Post
    Actually, I think you might. Not without pain, but if it was done right... I've seen football players gets limbs popped back into their socket and keep playing.
    Interesting, I didn't know that but what do you mean by if done right? Was the way that Thea fought done right?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by acer15 View Post
    Too many flashbacks for me. What I did like is Thea is no really pissed at Malcolm. So I hope they don't have Thea and Oliver train with Malcolm for too long I would rather rather.
    I want to see Oliver and Thea fight Ra's and kill him so the writer can get on with other stories for the show.
    What other stories? I thought this whole season was based on the threat of this off-screen antagonist.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Interesting, I didn't know that but what do you mean by if done right? Was the way that Thea fought done right?
    Limbs generally don't pop out of sockets because they are held together by various tissues. What I mean is, if Oliver was able to yank her limb out of the socket AND pop it back into place without tearing any of these tissues, she should be able to use it. If, however, he did it poorly, and it tore ligaments/tendons and muscles, she'd be in much more pain and would likely lose full range of motion.
    Last edited by Backward Galaxy; 02-19-2015 at 11:25 AM.

  15. #30
    Incurable Postaholic Genny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipzo View Post
    I liked it but it felt like a very short episode to me. Probably because not much really happened through the episode and unlike previous major flashback episode's it was a 50/50 combination of present day and flashback parts.

    I really like how Thea stood up to Malcolm at the end, she will be staying as a member of Team Arrow from now on and will surely take on the name Speedy unless god forbid the writers decide to be stupid and kill her off (touch wood).
    Malcolm did what I expected him to in this episode, there was no way he was purely sending Oliver to the island without a major test for him as Oliver already proved he could survive there easy enough. I do find it weird that he said he released Slade (or it was at least strongly implied) and yet Oliver said during the episode that Slade killed both the guards. Are we to believe that Malcolm went to the island, unlocked the door and told Slade to stay in his cell until the guards came along then kill them? Bit of a screw up there but nothing that can't be looked past.

    What I didn't like was the Felicity moment, it was nothing but pandering to the Olicity fandom and was completely pointless to the storyline. Not to mention the fact taht they screwed that up majorly as she is supposed to be 24 going on 25 in the present which means she would be 19 going on 20 in the flashbacks and she graduated from MIT in the class of '09. It just doesn't work and it made me hate that scene even more.
    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Second very good episode in a row. This season wouldn't actually start becoming good would it? It wasn't a great episode though, because the show just can't avoid making some mistakes over and over.

    The good:

    - Slade! Damn I've missed that lovable psycho. It's just a shame that he can only make sporadic appearances like this now. They ended his arcs (both present day and flashbacks) far too soon.

    - The Oliver and Thea scenes. They worked pretty well most of the time. I like how the show is trying a new dynamic with this relationship and Thea comes across more mature.

    - One more secret is revealed. At least now Thea knows she killed Sara. I think now the secrets on this show can be counted on one hand's fingers.

    - The flashbacks. It was nice to see what Starling was like in the middle of Oliver's 5 year absence. Almost everyone was where you expected them to be. Tommy keeping things together, Laurel trying to move on with her life, Quentin and Thea spiraling out of control... Pity Susanna Thompson declined the show offer's to return. Finally, I loved some homages to the show's history, like Andy Diggle and Robert's message to Oliver.

    - No Felicity in the present day storylines.

    The not so good:

    - The Quentin situation. This is where the show keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over. Why do we have to go back in a place where Quentin is angry at the world and (you know it's going to happen) starts blaming the Arrow again? From the moment Laurel started hiding the truth about Sara, it was clear as day this is where they were headed. They're really wasting Paul Blackthorne's talents with this recycled nonsense. Also, haven't we seen enough Lance family drama to last us a lifetime?

    - The secret keeping. I love how Oliver comes clean to Thea about Sara and the next thing he does is tell her "don't tell Laurel". Oh come on.

    - Some logistics don't add up. Like how Malcolm knew where Slade was, how he helped him escape or how he knew exactly when Oliver was going to find out in order to give him a call.

    - Felicity in the flashbacks. This felt like a blatant and lame retcon. According to the show's own timeline from this season, Felicity was still in college in November of 2009. So we're supposed to believe that she graduated (with a master's degree no less!), managed to find a job at QC and work close to the CEO's office all within 3 months? Quite honestly, that whole scene felt like another wink towards Olicity fans: "Look, Oliver and Felicity had some type of attraction for each other years before they met". Whatever...

    8/10. Mostly because of Slade and his badassery.
    Quote Originally Posted by dark sister View Post
    I give it an 8. Good episode overall, but a few things didn't work for me.

    Thea is betting better each week, the speech she gave Malcom was awesome, finally she sees that her father is still the monster that killed hundreds of people to avenge his wife, Malcom has not changed and as she said, he can't use Ra's and the League as an excuse for all the terrible things he has done. What he did to Thea was unforgivable, and Oliver was an idiot for not telling her sooner, not only because it was clear she wouldn't trust Malcom after discovering the truth, but because she needs to know why the League may go after her. Let's hope Oliver learns from the experience and stops with the "I didn't tell you to protect you" b***s***.

    Nice contrast between flashback Oliver and present Oliver, one is starting to act like the killing machine we met in season 1, the other is reclaiming his humanity and is way more connected to his emotions, he looked so desperate when Thea was on the brick of killing Slade, it's clear he doesn't want his sister to be a killer.

    Loved the Tommy scenes, the "hood and grease paint" comment, seeing Diggle with his brother, and Oliver wearing a green hoddie .

    The only two complaints I have about the episode are how little time they gave to Slade (I understand the episode was about Oliver and Thea's relationship, not Slade, but he is such a great character I always want to see more of him) and the Felicity cameo, it was pointless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    It was a great episode even if it was riddled with plot holes.

    Loved seeing Tommy and Slade again, particularly Slade. Didn't realise how much I missed him. He is a much better character than Malcolm who I just want to die a horrible death.

    Speaking of Malcolm, didn't he say to Oliver that we shouldn't keep any more secrets from Thea? Yet Malcolm wanted to keep the fact that Thea killed Sara from her. Talk about double standards.

    It is beyond ridiculous that no one except for a drug dealer recognised Oliver who Oliver then killed. Surely Oliver's fingerprints will be all over him? I must say though that the drug dealer's death was a nice callback to the series premier when Oliver killed that random guy for finding out his secret. They both died in the exact same way.

    Also, surely ARGUS would know if someone had broken out of their facility? From CCTV or something?

    I also thought they would explain how Oliver knew in Season One that Laurel and Tommy were seeing each other. Yet the scene at the end with Tommy and Laurel didn't have Oliver witnessing it.

    Also strange how Slade managed to do so well in his fight against Oliver and Thea considering he had been locked in a cage for over six months.

    Ridiculous how Oliver saw Felicity working at Queen Consolidated. Not only because of what others have posted here but because I'm sure Oliver mentioned in the season premier when talking about how much he cared about Felicity that the first time he saw Felicity was when she was chewing a red pen. There was no chewing in this episode...

    I absolutely loved Thea this episode. Her scene with Malcolm at the end, which inevitably was going to happen at some point, was brilliantly played.

    Amusing how Thea now thinks there are no more secrets between her and Oliver. Wait till she finds out he was in Starling...

    Also nice callback to see how Oliver got his message from his Father. But surely Walter would have seen that file on his computer whilst he was CEO? Yet Walter didn't know anything about The List.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArrowFan1988 View Post
    Also, Felicity should not have been there, as she still was a student back then.
    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Ya know, I knew something was off about the flashbacks, but I couldn't put my finger on it. The above reviewers have managed to point it out, though: Felicity. Now, here's the timeline people:

    - The Gambit goes down between September and November of 2007.
    - Slade, Shado, and Oliver destroy Fyers' missile launcher and kill the mercs in May 2008.
    - Amazo arrives in October 2008.
    - Amazo sinks in May 2009.
    - At some point in 2009, Felicity graduates MIT, gets hired on at QC
    - February 2010, Oliver infiltrates QC and sees Felicity.

    The problem with the above timeline is Felicity would have been, at best, a new hire with a few months under her belt and therefore unlikely to be delivering anything to the boss' office, especially after-hours, unless you want to imply she's an ***-kisser. As others have also stated, Oliver himself stated THIS SEASON that the first time he saw her was the whole 'chewing the red pen' moment.

    This scene was nothing more than pandering to the Olicity fans, and I'm frankly getting tired of it. It's scenes like this that make me want them to write the character off the show, and I don't care if it's because she chooses to leave or dies. I liked the character in Season 1 and 2, and I love the fact the actress is a big nerd herself, but the forceful shoving of Olicity down everyone's throats to satisfy a loud and obnoxious minority has long lost its amusement factor.
    Agreed. When I heard the premise of this episode I expected some fan pandering to the Olicity fandom, not going to lie, it annoyed me that they didn't show Oliver having much of a reaction to seeing Laurel at all in the flashbacks when season 1 set up that he missed her when he was gone and wanted to see her/talk to her, etc. Ugh, the continuity on this show. Felicity was clearly in there as Olicity fan service, she really had no purpose in this episode. I liked most of the episode just not the Felicity cameo.

    I really liked seeing Diggle and his brother, that was a good nod. I also like seeing Quentin in the state of mind he was in after Sara's death, and having Tommy in the episode was good. I miss having him around, he was a good character. I do wish Moira had been in the episode though, I understand they may not have been able to get the actress, but I was really hoping to see her even though I knew it was highly unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Just another thing that popped in my head: anyone else curious as to what Robert's message for Thea was? We clearly saw he left not only a message for Oliver, but a message for Thea as well. Hopefully they just don't ignore that....
    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    It might be that he knows that Thea wasn't his daughter.

    I'm sure they might show it later.
    Hope so, I really wanted to see the message as well. Hopefully she gets to watch it this season and it isn't forgotten...

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