View Poll Results: Rate This Episode

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  • 10 - CANary

    13 32.50%
  • 9

    15 37.50%
  • 8

    6 15.00%
  • 7

    2 5.00%
  • 6

    1 2.50%
  • 5

    1 2.50%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - CANNOTary

    2 5.00%
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  1. #31
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    Someone above mentioned the amount of times Sara says a certain b-word in this episode. The writers and showrunners have always shown they have the fanbase well-surveyed. i can't count the amount of times I've seen fans (especially those on social media) call Laurel this.
    THIS! I don't have the time to post anything of my own, so I'm just going to quote a post I found online:

    Everything Vertigo!Sara said to Laurel is something that Anti-Laurel “fans” have spewed all over forums, all over twitter, and facebook, and tumblr, and even to the writers and to Katie Cassidy. Every last word about being selfish, or a *****, or a fraud, or that she can never be black canary, or a hero… all of that abuse was thrown into Laurel’s face in this one episode and she didn’t let any of it get to her. She fought back even harder. As a viewer, growing hurt or pissed off by all the things Anti-Laurel “fans” say, and becoming defensive and feeling attacked suddenly doesn’t feel necessary anymore because Laurel has heard ALL of it, and not a single ****ing word of it could break her. Anti-Laurel fans were the antagonist of this episode and they just got their ass handed to them. That is why I love this episode so much..
    I wonder if the writers did that on purpose…as if they wanted to say that we know about all the fandom misconstruals and misinterpretations of Laurel’s character, actions and behavior, but we’re standing behind her and this is our response? Even if it is not true, it is a lovely thought…

  2. #32
    Custom Title Exedore's Avatar
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    Anti-Laurel fans were the antagonist of this episode. Say what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Speaking of Felicity, predictably once again she's the one to give a hero a pep talk. Come on show.
    She was only doing her job as the Chloe Sullivan of this universe.

  3. #33
    Super Moderator savingpeoplething's Avatar
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    Laurel-Centric. Laurel having a friend who supported her. Roy standing up to Oliver. Laurel standing up to Oliver. Oliver being honest with Thea. Lance Family Feelings. Black Canary's first round with Vertigo. Black Canary and Green Arrow's first team up (even though I couldn't really enjoy it because Oliver's crappiness pretty much ruined it).

    The things I really loved about this episode surpassed everything I hated about this episode. 10!

  4. #34
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    All the good comments above, i'll try and bring something different.

    It bugs me that Maseo is still somehow working for RAG. Because in the flashbacks, he is an awesome guy. He gets himself captured to help Ollie? I wonder what is really going on with Maseo.

    And I have to agree with practically everyone posting before, I'm glad DJ is gone. Don't care how, don't care why, don't care, just glad he is gone. Every time I saw that guy I couldn't stand him. And I think his hair was more irritating than Ollies HK wig.

    The early scene where Ollie and Roy were chasing some thug through some metal stairs reminded me of early Arrow. It was great, everything clicked nicely and then Laurel clobbering that guy was a suprise. She is improving, and they are improving her slowly. It's actually being handled quite well, because she loses more often than not.

    Malcolm waltzing into the Arrow HQ without warning. Ollie really needs to address that. This guy may be a sort of ally for now, but he is still in the top 5 of public enemies. It would be great if next time Malcolm waltzes into the Arrow HQ that they kick his booty.

    Count Vertigo has actually grown on me. The first incarnation was pretty good, and this new one is actually good as well. But, he has a very odd accent. Not sure where he gets that from? And it would be nice to have some backstory for this guy, because he apparently has some level of hand to hand skills, as well as great aim with his vertigo darts. And I loved the KO shot Laurel delivered to the drugged guard.

    I was really worried for Ollie and Maseo as they plotted to somehow escape Waller. I knew they would somehow prevent Ollie from getting a message to his mother. Waller has once again lost any sympathy I had for her, as she comes across as straight up cold blooded evil sometimes. Why the big attack on Ollie when it's Maseo who she wanted? And I don't see getting Maseo fitting into her theory of extreme measures to prevent extreme outcomes. Maseo isn't threatening the world here, but Waller seems like she could if she really applied herself to that end. And the whole waterboarding thing is silly. I know it's politically correct to act as if its one of the most inhuman forms of torture ever. But come on, really? After Wintergreen taking a knife to Ollie, Ollie himself using arrows to torture, it came across as weak sauce. Of course Ollie didn't break under that. And I really like Maseo more each time he's on. I did miss Tatsu, and I'm sure she will be back. Oh, and Ollie's escape attempt in HK was awesome!

    Ollie letting Thea into the Arrow secret was really good. I always like these scenes with Ollie and Thea. I loved her reaction. I liked how they can now sit around and talk about these things while on the couch chilling lol. My favorite part of all of it - Thea said, "I kicked yer ass!" and Ollie says "No, you didn't" Now they can really help her become Super Thea

    I thought of this thing with Olllie and Thea going to Lian Yu for further training in a different post. What I find puzzling was Team Arrow worrying that Ollie was leaving again, so soon after his return. Hello People, didn't you just a few minutes earlier act like Ollie and his decisions are no longer necessary for you? Didn't you all elaborate on how you've "moved on"? If Ollie's input is so little valued by Felicity then what does she care if he goes off again for a week or two? He doesn't get to come back and question their choices, but they can question his. Very convenient.

    I like Laurel standing up to Ollie, as she has come a ways since he was missing. It seemed a little odd at first, when Roy stood up against Ollie, but then I remembered, he didn't used to get any kind of scenes, much less speaking in them. So it's no big deal, and I also think he still has strong feelings for Thea.

    Loved Thea beginning to awaken to the fact Malcolm is evil. Loved Laurel finally telling Dad about Sara. Loved Lance knew BC was Laurel.

    I await the return of Slade, and can't imagine what will happen on that island. I expect Thea to attempt some kind of revenge against Mr. Wilson for her mothers murder.

  5. #35
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    I think the accent might be an exaggeration of Peter Stormares natural accent but I'm not sure because I'm not that familiar with Swedish accents.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    I think the accent might be an exaggeration of Peter Stormares natural accent but I'm not sure because I'm not that familiar with Swedish accents.
    it is slightly exaggerated. I've seen him on "Prison Break" and it wasn't as strong as it is in "Arrow".

  7. #37
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Well the Canary Arc is now over, so what affect did it have on the show? The overnight ratings are in, and they are bad. Canary received a 1.0 in the key demos and 2.5 million viewers. Ratings for the other two parts were a bit better in key demos, but not much. So what does this tell us? Well, sadly arrow has been struggling with ratings all season, but the decision to focus the show on anyone but Oliver was a ratings mistake. The writers had best return to writing good scripts with an actual season long villain to root against, or season 4 could end rather quickly. I don't think Arrow has jumped the shark just yet, but Oliver is definitely on skis and diggle is circling the shark tank in a speedboat.

  8. #38
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    The rating are affected by the fact some cities have basketball game on and The mentalist draws in more viewers due to ending next week....it will go back up next week since Slade Wilson is back.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by screamthepoetry View Post
    See and i agree with this. the producers have already said they are trying to get back to the comic roots, in the comics oliver ends up with dinah(laurel) but with a fanbase screaming for olicity the only way to make that happen is to get the olicity fans to hate felicity first...i believe this is a slow start to this, i could honestly see felicity shifting to "The Flash" or if it becomes a standalone "Firestorm" simply because her roots are with firestorm in the comics.
    I don't give them that much credit. I don't think they know how to write female characters who are in the love interest roswithout injecting melodrama at the expense of the character.

    That aside, I don't think that Felicity was completely in the wrong about Malcolm or about the fact that Oliver coming back to boss everyone around isn't exactly fair. I could have done without the childish sarcasm, but it is what it is.

    Laurel finally telling Quentin about Sara was the best thing to come out of this episode. It was a well done scene and I felt so bad for him, but it should have been handled months ago.

    I really do feel like there's a deleted scene somewhere that has Diggle telling the team that he doesn't want to go out in the field anymore. Because it's weird to have him stay in the Arrow cave all the time. Though they were sort of leading into Diggle taking a step back from the action at the beginning of the season. So maybe they're picking that thread back up?

    Thea's reaction to Oliver's secret was wonderful, but I felt like her anger over Malcolm knowing was very misplaced. There are much better reasons for her to be angry at Malcolm (though, granted, she doesn't know the biggest reason)

    All in all, not a bad episode, but not the best.

  10. #40
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    I haven't seen the show since the holiday hiatus and I saw all four new episodes today. I won't comment the first three here - I was very disappointed anyway to comment anything good - so I'll just stick to this one. Which I really, really enjoyed mainly because of Laurel whom I like even more with every episode. I think she is fantastic this season. The only thing I didn't like was her getting those vertigo darts twice!!! I mean, come on!!!
    Other than that I'm so glad that she is with the team now and of course that she told her father the truth about Sara. And I really liked her interaction and co-operation with Oliver. The chemistry between the two of them that there wasn't so much there in seasons 1 & 2 finally is starting to emerge! At least to my eyes.
    What else did I like? Hmm, I would like to say the fact that Thea found out about the real identity of Arrow but...as someone else already said above and I think I agree with him...I am a little worried about that. She accepted the news way too nice, at least for her and recalling all those other times when she found out that someone has told her a lie or just by suspecting that someone was lying to her... I don't know, if anything else I didn't expect that cool and easygoing behaviour. Plus, her change of heart against Malcolm seemed also very abrupt and hurried. And Malcolm is coming out too good and handy to be true!
    And of course the Olicity moments because there weren't any!!!! Yeah!!!! Please God, let it continue this way!! The show is so much better without it! Oliver is so much better!

  11. #41
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    Thea's reaction to Oliver's secret was wonderful, but I felt like her anger over Malcolm knowing was very misplaced. There are much better reasons for her to be angry at Malcolm (though, granted, she doesn't know the biggest reason)
    I think the reason Thea was mad at Malcolm was because he was the only person in her life that didn't lie to her. Once she found out Malcolm knew Ollie was the Arrow than she knew he wasn't honest with her so that ended her trust of him.

  12. #42
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    Nothing against David Ramsey but I think the showrunners may have miscast him as Diggle, I'm thinking they should've gone with an older, near retirement bodyguard that could've worked the streets with Oliver in season 1 and a little in season 2 then beginning season 3 he'd sit in the Foundry giving advice and strategic assistance with the simple excuse that he's getting to old to fight instead of holding him back without any explaination and letting us all assume it has to do with Layla and Sara. They knew they'd be bringing in Arsenal or Speedy as Oliver's sidekick at some point so they also knew Diggle would be loosing that role sooner or later.

  13. #43
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    I think the reason Thea was mad at Malcolm was because he was the only person in her life that didn't lie to her. Once she found out Malcolm knew Ollie was the Arrow than she knew he wasn't honest with her so that ended her trust of him.
    That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

  14. #44
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    This was one of the best episodes I've seen this season. Several subplots were completed - Chase is gone and Lance finally knows about Sara (good scene, well-acted). There were some things that slightly bothered me, but there's no need to go into them. I will, however, say the scene where Laurel takes down the Count could have been executed better.

    I foresee another death in the Queen family looming. This is the first time I have even considered it; however for some reason when Oliver revealed his secret to Thea, the possibility of her death crept into my mind and lingered there the entire episode. Oliver might have been right to not tell her after all. It would also create a rift between Malcolm & Oliver again, which is bound to happen eventually. Now if they were to use the Lazarus Pit (an idea with positives and negatives), it would be on her. This is just a theory. I'm not saying it'll actually take place. Should this go on the Speculation board?

  15. #45
    Incurable Postaholic Genny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choiceofluthien View Post
    Yes! That was one of the few things I didn't like. For the third episode in a row we see Diggle staying in the Foundry while a less experienced Laurel goes into the field. Although I can see 'why' the writers wanted this, it's getting ridiculous. Surely tonight they could have added a few more bad guys so Diggle could go too?

    I loved Thea's reaction to learning the secret. I didn't find it out of character. She's grown up a lot and it was a wonderful moment between the two of them. And she's remembering why she hated Malcolm initially...although she has no idea of the level of manipulation it's a start.

    Felicity doesn't have to be so sarcastic, etc... about Malcolm.

    As much as I loved Thea in that scene with her and Oliver, she seemed to regress when she immediately went off with Chase later. Although that apartment fight scene was not what I expected it was awesome. Roy arriving to save her life but then he was getting his ass kicked and then being happy to see Malcolm again (why cannot I just completely hate him?).

    Loved having Sara back even though it was short.I loved seeing Laurel get her ass kicked as it keeps her 'hero' storyline a bit more realistic.
    And yay for her finally telling Lance the truth. Paul Blackthorne completely broke my heart in that scene as he broke down. "My baby girl...not again". I felt so bad for him...When is something good going to happen to him??

    Not sure I completely get why Oliver and Thea are back on the Island but it's going to make next week epic.

    I think the best part of this episode was the emotional rollercoaster I was on the entire time.
    This. Completely agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Ok this episode is very 10 out 10 for me. Probably the most I've enjoyed watching Arrow this year period. I could find tiny faults but I really don't feel like nit picking what is a amazing episode.

    First the stuff with Sara being dead and lying to daddy ends and second Thea is brought in. Also DJ is dead. Even better Thea takes it very well and was enjoyable character for this entire episode.

    The action was great as always and as well as the flashbacks. Also I don't really care if Felicity did a 180 and is now back on track to being much more enjoyable than what ever that mess of a character was for these past three episodes. So not only has Oliver's returned helped but we have also brought back a much better show with it YES!!!

    Only if they can keep it this level of being good and for the first time this season I didn't feel like I was watching CW drama. it's amazing how mostly everything out in the open for the characters and the show can do.
    You're right.

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    At long last, a solid episode. It was certainly a game changer with some secrets finally being revealed.

    The good:

    - Thea finding out. I loved that it was Oliver who told her and she didn't hear it from someone else. As a bonus, her reaction was very mature. From that point on the Oliver/Thea scenes had a new dynamic and they were probably the most fun they've ever been.

    - Quentin finding out. Boy, I'm actually more relieved by this than I'm about Thea finding out. Again, it was nice to see Laurel figuring out Quentin has to know and telling her on her own. After last week, I was afraid Sin would have prompted Quentin to look for himself and find out the truth. The scene was perfectly acted by both Cassidy and Blackthorne and it tore at your heart strings. What worries me now is how Quentin will handle it. I can see him reverting back to his season 1 "darker" self, so to speak.

    - Less Felicity. It feels weird that it's come to this, but this was actually one of the reasons I liked this episode. I mean lets face it, Felicity hardly offers any moments of comedy nowdays. The scenes she's on tend to be the more dramatic. So here's hoping she features just as little in the the following episodes.

    - The Sara cameo. It was great to see Caity Lotz back. And for once, a guest star actually returned to make a meaningful impact. Laurel's character has progressed nicely in recent weeks and confronting her Sara ghost was probably the tip of the iceberg. Hopefully it's not the last we've seen of Caity Lotz.

    - Chase getting killed off. God I hated him, lol. Never bought him as a League member.

    - The cliffhangers. This is what the show is often pretty good at: Reversing roles. Seeing present Ollie return to Lian Yu whereas flashback Ollie returns to Starling was really cool. And I'm certain next week's episode will be just that. Slade Wilson and all...

    The not so good:

    - Thea losing her trust in Malcolm. That felt kind of forced and awkward. But if she was pissed about that, imagine what will happen when she finally finds out about Sara...

    - "And you do not have the right to come back here and question everyone's choices". This is exactly why the Felicity character no longer works for me. Put that piece of dialogue right next to last week's closing scene and it doesn't paint her in a particulary good light. Quite honestly, she comes across as a vengeful ex girlfriend.

    - Speaking of Felicity, predictably once again she's the one to give a hero a pep talk. Come on show.

    - Roy taking exception to Oliver's treatment of Thea felt ott. But the show can't do without its drama...

    - Laurel still doesn't know who killed Sara?

    7.5 out of 10.
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    "Holier-than-thou" Felicity downers: "You've got company or, as I like to call him, your new bff." and her rant, not so much her statement that the argument needed to happen, letting Oliver know the team has changed. Diggle was much more civilized in talking to Oliver and getting the point across while Felicity seemed to just want to attack Oliver everytime she had anything to say to him. Even her interupting him to verify she needed to find an address came over as biting his head off. What was good was the bonding moment with Laurel, actually I've been enjoying Felicity most during her interactions with Laurel this season (moreso than her interactions with Ray even).

    Roy was struggling with the decision of accepting Malcolm's help last episode and Thea helped him make his decision, I found it very appropriate that he was the one to help Thea make her decision, even though at face value it seemed he was flipping on his own take of Malcolm. Roy wasn't fully comfortable accepting his help. In some ways Roy is surpassing his mentor Oliver in the hero business (definately isn't the fighting skills yet)

    I understand Laurel getting beat up and needing to confront her ghosts but it felt like they could've done it somewhat better than her laying against a container pleading for help like some weak damsel in distress to keep Oliver from catching Zytle right after saving her from getting beat to a pulp. Loved how Laurel stood her ground against Oliver and her revealing Sara's death to Quentin, both powerful moments showing Laurel's strength as well as her compasion.

    Oliver dredging up Laurel's addiction means that'll be an everlasting crutch throughout the show that's always going to get thrown back into her face... Sad the show thinks it needs something like that to repremand Laurel with.

    The reveal to Thea was refreshingly without drama which made it enjoyable to see. Good to see her finally noticing she's not the big badass she thinks she is after her training with Malcolm and understanding she can't stand on her own against the LoA. I was disappointed of Oliver's lack of argument (not that I wanted or needed the mock drama it would've brought with it) that Thea had to help in the fight against Ra's, he's been so overly protective of her and trying to keep her out of everything that he just seemed to cave to easily there.

    Definately one of the stronger episodes of the season for me but brought over a bit weak for my taste. 7
    Quote Originally Posted by NightHawk777 View Post
    All the good comments above, i'll try and bring something different.

    It bugs me that Maseo is still somehow working for RAG. Because in the flashbacks, he is an awesome guy. He gets himself captured to help Ollie? I wonder what is really going on with Maseo.

    And I have to agree with practically everyone posting before, I'm glad DJ is gone. Don't care how, don't care why, don't care, just glad he is gone. Every time I saw that guy I couldn't stand him. And I think his hair was more irritating than Ollies HK wig.

    The early scene where Ollie and Roy were chasing some thug through some metal stairs reminded me of early Arrow. It was great, everything clicked nicely and then Laurel clobbering that guy was a suprise. She is improving, and they are improving her slowly. It's actually being handled quite well, because she loses more often than not.

    Malcolm waltzing into the Arrow HQ without warning. Ollie really needs to address that. This guy may be a sort of ally for now, but he is still in the top 5 of public enemies. It would be great if next time Malcolm waltzes into the Arrow HQ that they kick his booty.

    Count Vertigo has actually grown on me. The first incarnation was pretty good, and this new one is actually good as well. But, he has a very odd accent. Not sure where he gets that from? And it would be nice to have some backstory for this guy, because he apparently has some level of hand to hand skills, as well as great aim with his vertigo darts. And I loved the KO shot Laurel delivered to the drugged guard.

    I was really worried for Ollie and Maseo as they plotted to somehow escape Waller. I knew they would somehow prevent Ollie from getting a message to his mother. Waller has once again lost any sympathy I had for her, as she comes across as straight up cold blooded evil sometimes. Why the big attack on Ollie when it's Maseo who she wanted? And I don't see getting Maseo fitting into her theory of extreme measures to prevent extreme outcomes. Maseo isn't threatening the world here, but Waller seems like she could if she really applied herself to that end. And the whole waterboarding thing is silly. I know it's politically correct to act as if its one of the most inhuman forms of torture ever. But come on, really? After Wintergreen taking a knife to Ollie, Ollie himself using arrows to torture, it came across as weak sauce. Of course Ollie didn't break under that. And I really like Maseo more each time he's on. I did miss Tatsu, and I'm sure she will be back. Oh, and Ollie's escape attempt in HK was awesome!

    Ollie letting Thea into the Arrow secret was really good. I always like these scenes with Ollie and Thea. I loved her reaction. I liked how they can now sit around and talk about these things while on the couch chilling lol. My favorite part of all of it - Thea said, "I kicked yer ass!" and Ollie says "No, you didn't" Now they can really help her become Super Thea

    I thought of this thing with Olllie and Thea going to Lian Yu for further training in a different post. What I find puzzling was Team Arrow worrying that Ollie was leaving again, so soon after his return. Hello People, didn't you just a few minutes earlier act like Ollie and his decisions are no longer necessary for you? Didn't you all elaborate on how you've "moved on"? If Ollie's input is so little valued by Felicity then what does she care if he goes off again for a week or two? He doesn't get to come back and question their choices, but they can question his. Very convenient.

    I like Laurel standing up to Ollie, as she has come a ways since he was missing. It seemed a little odd at first, when Roy stood up against Ollie, but then I remembered, he didn't used to get any kind of scenes, much less speaking in them. So it's no big deal, and I also think he still has strong feelings for Thea.

    Loved Thea beginning to awaken to the fact Malcolm is evil. Loved Laurel finally telling Dad about Sara. Loved Lance knew BC was Laurel.

    I await the return of Slade, and can't imagine what will happen on that island. I expect Thea to attempt some kind of revenge against Mr. Wilson for her mothers murder.
    Lots of good comments.

    My thoughts on the episode was that this was a pretty well done episode. I'd give it an 8 or 9 out of 10. I really enjoyed the hour, and I noticed a couple of complaints about the similarity of Black Canary vs. Canary to Green Arrow vs. Oliver Queen, but I think the similarity was necessary. Oliver and Laurel are both on a very similar journey, especially in regards to the comics and them being heroes. They both needed to face their demons in order to move forward.

    I loved the scene between Laurel and Quentin, so moving, Paul Blackthorne was amazing. It was a really good moment between them and I'm glad Laurel has told him the truth. It also fit well with the theme of Oliver and Thea and their newfound honesty. Thea was pretty interesting this episode.

    Thank God they killed off the DJ character, whom I never bothered to learn the name of because he annoyed me.

    Wish they had used Diggle more as seems to be the case these days, but love Green Arrow, Black Canary and Arsenal out in the field together.

    I think I really enjoyed this episode because Felicity was toned back way more than she has been lately and there was no Olicity drama. Proof that they need to let that ship sail or sink. She did have a bit of an attitude, but it was dialed back a bit so it didn't bother me as much. I did really like her scene with Laurel, I honestly love the friendship that's forming between the two of them. I think Katie and Emily Bett play really well of each other.

    I liked that Oliver was concerned about Laurel, what I didn't like about that scene though was the way Oliver threw her addiction problem back at her. She's dealt with it and is dealing with it, but I loved the fact that she along with Diggle are the only two who have been brutally honest with Oliver about him putting himself at risk and she can because they are really open with each other. I love that Oliver and Laurel have that connection with each other, although he was a little out of line.

    The episode did a good job of showing Oliver not feeling in control of the team anymore and him being annoyed with that.

    The flashbacks were well done this episode and I liked the way they tied the last bit together with Oliver going back to Star City in the flashbacks and go back to the island in present day.

    Seeing Caity Lotz was great, I miss her, but am loving Laurel as Black Canary.

    Oliver was 'okay' this episode. Not horrible, not great, just okay.

    The Lauriver part of me, don't kill me for admitting this, is hoping that Ollie tries to at least see Laurel next week during the flashbacks when he's in Starling City. It would tie in well with how they set them up in season 1 and 2 and how he wanted to see her when he got back, etc.

    I love that show is aligning more with the comics. I loved the first BC/GA team up and look forward to more.

    I think I'm settled on 9/10 for the episode.

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