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  • 10 - Uprising indeed.

    9 24.32%
  • 9

    10 27.03%
  • 8

    7 18.92%
  • 7

    5 13.51%
  • 6

    3 8.11%
  • 5

    2 5.41%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

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  • 1 - More like a Downfall.

    1 2.70%
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  1. #16
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    Pretty meh episode. There were quite a few things that bugged me.

    Firstly, even though Tatsu wanted Oliver to stay, she didn't put up much of a fight when he said he was leaving.

    The next thing, I thought it had been established that Malcolm's wife left him a voicemail asking for his help, yet when the police cam round, he didn't seem to know what had happened.

    Another thing, seeing as Felicity is back in the fold, why on earth is Diggle not back in the field?

    Where has this whole Malcolm redemption thing come from?

    The last thing, and this bugged me the most. What the hell is going through Oliver's brain? Unless it is explained how he was brought back to life so he lost his marbles, I just don't get this urge to train with Malcolm to protect him from Ra's. Malcolm is the person that was responsible for Olivers Fathers death, his best friends death and the murder of 502 other people, Sara's death and the fact that Malcolm made Olivers sister a killer. Yet Oliver still wants to train with him? I just don't buy it.

    Oliver, what you need to do, is beat the hell out of Malcolm and put him in Ra's al Ghuls lap.

  2. #17
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    I loved it and I think felicity is in the right and also in the wrong just like how a character should be. she's right that it's morally wrong to train with Malcom or accept help from him at all. at the same time she's wrong that the team can afford not to they have to or they will die and I think that's where oliver and felicity differ. oliver is a survivor if the only choice to continue surviving is to become a terrible person than he'll become that person. for felicity if that's the only choice than she will die fighting to find another one but she will die all the same. I guess it depends on what you feel is important if you feel living is the ultimate justification for anything you choose to do than arrow is correct if not than its hard to argue with felicity's argument and I love that.

  3. #18
    Settling In dark sister's Avatar
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    Okay, as much as it bugs me, it makes sense for Oliver to train with Malcom.

    Malcom was trained by the League, he knows Ra's, he knows how they work and how they think, so he is the best candidate to teach Oliver. Yes, he is the reason Thea is in danger in the first place, but there is nothing Oliver can do about it now except fight for her, and his best chance to defeat Ra's and make sure Thea is safe is to work with Malcom. Oliver is not happy about it, but he would do anything for Thea.

    Is not like he has invited him to join the team, he is just going to train with him.

    Is possible that the original plan was have Tatsu train Oliver, but maybe the actress couldn't or something like that, just like Wildcat was supposed to work with the team and have a romantic plot with Laurel that had to be dropped after the actor got cast in another show.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dark sister View Post
    Okay, as much as it bugs me, it makes sense for Oliver to train with Malcom.

    Malcom was trained by the League, he knows Ra's, he knows how they work and how they think, so he is the best candidate to teach Oliver. Yes, he is the reason Thea is in danger in the first place, but there is nothing Oliver can do about it now except fight for her, and his best chance to defeat Ra's and make sure Thea is safe is to work with Malcom. Oliver is not happy about it, but he would do anything for Thea.
    Except that Oliver doesn't need to be trained by Malcolm. The League are after Malcolm. All Oliver needs to do is give Malcolm to the League and everyone is happy.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    The last thing, and this bugged me the most. What the hell is going through Oliver's brain? Unless it is explained how he was brought back to life so he lost his marbles, I just don't get this urge to train with Malcolm to protect him from Ra's. Malcolm is the person that was responsible for Olivers Fathers death, his best friends death and the murder of 502 other people, Sara's death and the fact that Malcolm made Olivers sister a killer. Yet Oliver still wants to train with him? I just don't buy it.

    Oliver, what you need to do, is beat the hell out of Malcolm and put him in Ra's al Ghuls lap.
    From all your problems you list why Oliver shouldn't ask for Malcolm's help I only see Sara's death as being a possible reason against Malcolm in this situation. Killed his father and 502 people in the Glades, misguided. Tommy's death, accidental. Using Thea to kill Sara is exactly why Oliver can't serve Malcolm to Ra's and seeing Oliver already tried to save her on his own and failed he needs help from somebody who might be able to help him. That sure isn't Laurel nor is it Roy or Diggle and sure as hell ain't Felicity. After Oliver is able to defeat Ra's and save Thea he can still make Malcolm pay for his crimes but until he defeats Ra's he can't save his sister who is in grave danger of being killed. I don't always agree that the ends justifies the means but in an extreme scenario as this with the given circumstances we have I can see Oliver teaming up with Malcolm and have no issues with it, it's what happens afterward that I might question.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    From all your problems you list why Oliver shouldn't ask for Malcolm's help I only see Sara's death as being a possible reason against Malcolm in this situation. Killed his father and 502 people in the Glades, misguided. Tommy's death, accidental. Using Thea to kill Sara is exactly why Oliver can't serve Malcolm to Ra's and seeing Oliver already tried to save her on his own and failed he needs help from somebody who might be able to help him. That sure isn't Laurel nor is it Roy or Diggle and sure as hell ain't Felicity. After Oliver is able to defeat Ra's and save Thea he can still make Malcolm pay for his crimes but until he defeats Ra's he can't save his sister who is in grave danger of being killed. I don't always agree that the ends justifies the means but in an extreme scenario as this with the given circumstances we have I can see Oliver teaming up with Malcolm and have no issues with it, it's what happens afterward that I might question.
    What exactly do you mean by "misguided"?

    But the death wasn't Thea's fault. She was under Malcolm's control. I'm sure Oliver could find a way to show Ra's the proof of that.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    What exactly do you mean by "misguided"?

    But the death wasn't Thea's fault. She was under Malcolm's control. I'm sure Oliver could find a way to show Ra's the proof of that.
    Misguided in that Malcolm wanted to save Starling City but was going about it the wrong way. It's by no means an excuse for him not to pay for what he did but it does weigh favorably towards him to ask for his help.

    Ra's doesn't care that Thea was under Malcolm's control, Malcolm already said that and wasn't really worried that anybody knew he was controlling Thea because he knew Ra's wouldn't care. Thea shot Sara. Period. That's all that matters to Ra's. Ra's is after Malcolm because of the Undertaking, not for Sara's murder.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    Misguided in that Malcolm wanted to save Starling City but was going about it the wrong way. It's by no means an excuse for him not to pay for what he did but it does weigh favorably towards him to ask for his help.

    Ra's doesn't care that Thea was under Malcolm's control, Malcolm already said that and wasn't really worried that anybody knew he was controlling Thea because he knew Ra's wouldn't care. Thea shot Sara. Period. That's all that matters to Ra's. Ra's is after Malcolm because of the Undertaking, not for Sara's murder.
    Malcolm was going about it the wrong way? That is an understatement. I don't think it weighs favourably towards him at all either.

    I get very different vibes from both Ra's and Malcolm. Malcolm I see as all-out evil but Ra's I see as honourable in his own way. I think if he was told the whole story about Sara's death he wouldn't so quickly gun for Thea.

    It's strange in the first place that he wanted Saras killer to face justice seeing as he had said in a previous episode something about how Sara was never a true League of Assassins member...

    Plus I think there could easily be some sort of deal between Ra's and Oliver. Oliver could give Malcolm to Ra's if Ra's never goes after Thea.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Oliver, what you need to do, is beat the hell out of Malcolm and put him in Ra's al Ghuls lap.
    Yeah pretty much this. Malcom is the villian here. Felicity is spot on.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Who View Post
    Yeah pretty much this. Malcom is the villian here. Felicity is spot on.
    That wouldn't work though Ra's al Ghul is mad at Malcolm for the Undertaking. But if Ollie brought Malcolm to the League Malcolm would have said Thea killed Sara so Ollie can't do that without harming Thea.

    But I feel they should have let Malcolm help instead of using innocent civilians to help them take on Brick. Malcolm could have helped reduce casualties in the fight and if he happened to lose they will still have him out of the way so he wouldn't harm anyone again.

  11. #26
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    This was not a terrible episode, but not one of the best. I liked seeing the citizens of the Glades (especially Sin!) rise up to fight back against Brick and his gang. I liked seeing Ted again, but I really hate that we got all of three episodes for Ted this season before they killed him off. I get that the actor got a role on another TV show, but I would have rather seen Ted recast. Or seen him come back for guest spots every so often.

    I feel like there was some flip-flopping with everyone-wasn't Felicity the one who suggested serving up Brick to Malcolm earlier in the episode? And then she didn't want to work with him? I can understand both sides of the argument, and it's a slippery slope when you just use the ends to justify the means. That said, how many people died because the team chose to take the moral high road?

    And Oliver stopping Merlyn from killing Brick made little sense, considering that Oliver wants to/will have to kill R'as al Ghul. Again, there's just a lot of flip-flopping on moral issues. I get that the two villains are different and the reasoning behind the killing is different, but it's still a little hypocritical.

    The Olicity melodrama continues to grate on my nerves, and I really wish the writers would just drop that subplot already. Or let them get together and stop with putting up stupid obstacles.

    While I really enjoyed seeing Roy and Laurel kick butt side by side, I too didn't understand why Diggle was in the Arrowcave while the less experienced fighter was out on the streets. Unless Diggle wants to take a more hands-off approach to stay safe for his wife and daughter. Though if that was the case, it would have been nice to have a line covering that.

    Finally, I'm glad that someone clued Quentin into the fact that it's not Sara in the suit. Here's hoping that we'll be done with that particular secrets and lies subplot as of next week, because that was yet more forced melodrama on the part of the writers and honestly, the show has enough organic drama that they don't really need to pile on melodrama for the sake of melodrama.

  12. #27
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    I don't think Ted Grant is killed off I just think he is just seriously injured just so he would be in the hospital and out of action so the actor can move onto his other show and later if he has time he can come back for an episode.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    I don't think Ted Grant is killed off I just think he is just seriously injured just so he would be in the hospital and out of action so the actor can move onto his other show and later if he has time he can come back for an episode.
    I hope so. They were pretty unclear as to whether he was dead or not, and it wasn't much fanfare if he WAS dead. Which makes sense for a character who's had such little screen time, but it's just kind of a bummer to see a pretty cool comic character written off due to the actor being unavailable.

  14. #29
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    I enjoyed the episode but there is a tiny problem I have with it. I loved the action, character interactions and everything else. Laurel as Black Cannery is actually becoming enjoyable and we had real no major keeping Sara death thing from Lance. Yea two plusses. Oliver is back. He's teamed up with Malcolm well extreme times call for extreme measures. Which after all he learned that from Waller in Brave and the Bold. So that doesn't bother me which Oliver said he's going to kill Ras A Gul. Me personally I hope he does.


    I miss some of the season 1 Oliver. It was nice to see Ted grant as Wildcat briefly show up even after what happened to him. Ouch. Now Felicity was once again my main problem. The whole I hate Malcolm and don't want him onboard than yelling at Oliver. Seriously she does not take people's opinions that don't agree with her very well. The scene at the end is I hope means the Olicty romance is officially done with. They screwed that up since the Calm episode. So I agree with JDBentz, costas22 and DoubleDevil on her character.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Pretty meh episode. There were quite a few things that bugged me.

    Firstly, even though Tatsu wanted Oliver to stay, she didn't put up much of a fight when he said he was leaving.

    The next thing, I thought it had been established that Malcolm's wife left him a voicemail asking for his help, yet when the police cam round, he didn't seem to know what had happened.

    Another thing, seeing as Felicity is back in the fold, why on earth is Diggle not back in the field?

    Where has this whole Malcolm redemption thing come from?

    The last thing, and this bugged me the most. What the hell is going through Oliver's brain? Unless it is explained how he was brought back to life so he lost his marbles, I just don't get this urge to train with Malcolm to protect him from Ra's. Malcolm is the person that was responsible for Olivers Fathers death, his best friends death and the murder of 502 other people, Sara's death and the fact that Malcolm made Olivers sister a killer. Yet Oliver still wants to train with him? I just don't buy it.

    Oliver, what you need to do, is beat the hell out of Malcolm and put him in Ra's al Ghuls lap.
    lol i couldn't agree more with everything you said. But if Oliver handed Malcolm over to Ra's, then Ra's would kill Malcolm and i don't think Oliver could let himself do that for some reason... But as other people are saying, Malcom has done some really horrible stuff, but he is Oliver's only chance of defeating Ra's since Malcolm was trained by and knows alot about Ra's...

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