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  • Ok series question over all.

    Ok lets all face facts Gotham is heading down Smallville's path. Of just being able to tease stuff but never get to it. So say your are put in charge of the series and have complete creative freedom how would you do the series.

    First not change a thing.

    Second have it be the relative same but Bruce in late teens early twenties is recently returned from traveling for like seven years and is struggling to find his place in a city on the brink of losing itself. It's basically Selina Kyle and Bruce are order teenagers like 19 but every one else stays the same. End the series like Smallville did but shorter number of seasons.

    Third option is do one season that at the end Gordon losses hope big time proving corruption is running the city and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it but enter season 2 where Bruce like early twenties having returned to Gotham last season now has an idea. Enter at the start of season 2 Batman emerges and were telling the first years of Bruce as Batman and Jim Gordon rising through the ranks.

    So guys get rid of the shackles of can't do this or that and just have a fun time imagining what you want Gotham to be.
    8
    Keep Gotham the same
    0%
    1
    Keep Gotham the same expect for Bruce and Selina as late teenagers
    0%
    5
    Gotham falls but 2nd season Batman rises. Folowing seasons Bruce early twenties learning.
    0%
    2

  • #2
    I would keep the same actors, but age Bruce just a little bit in the next season so the villains don't seem as older than him as they are now. it's pretty ridiculous that Riddler and Penguin are like 10 years older than him. (Well maybe Penguin is only 18 but Riddler must be older if he has a science degree and a lab job with the police.) Then I would make each villain reach their identity by the end of each season and then go underground until Batman comes around.

    Comment


    • #3
      I doubt you'll get many answers of "keep gotham the same", honestly.

      Sadly, I knew this show was destined to be a failure the moment they announced Bruce in his baby years. Prequels are normally a TERRIBLE idea when it comes to TV shows, and Gotham is a perfect point to illustrate this.

      Trying to cash in on Batman's popularity with out using Batman? Epic fail.

      The only way and ONLY way to salvage this show would be a complete 180 rewrite of season 2 after season 1 finishes airing. Do a time jump, have Bruce just finish his training with the League of Assassins, and he goes on his own as per usual.

      Hell, if they are THAT hell bent about keeping the focus on Gordon, they can. Keep the show from his point of view, keep him solving the B-grade murder of the week cases, and have him bring in the Bat for the over arching story lines ONLY.

      As it is to most hardcore Bat fans like me the show's an insult, and most of the general public is confused on if this even IS a show in Batman's world or not anyways.

      Comment


      • #4
        The show has had some amazing episodes, proving that their formula absolutely works. The problem is that they haven't been able to execute it properly on a consistent basis.

        I would cut out Bruce Wayne and Alfred entirely and turn it into a noir-style crime drama with regular bad guys and, every once in a while, throw in an over-the-top case. That would be half the show. The other half would be like the Godfather/Sopranos and would continue to chronicle Penguin's rise to prominence. I would further minimize the role of romance in the show as neither Leslie nor Barbara have added anything to the story whatsoever and are basically misogynistic wet dreams.

        Stop treating Riddler like he's comic relief.

        And stop forcing yourself to be beholden to a character who will likely never appear in the show (Batman).

        Comment


        • #5
          I pretty much agree with Backward Galaxy. Bruce was good for that one plot episode where his parents were killed off, and that was it. I suppose if they had to show Bruce, I think it should be only done in brief cameos... like maybe there's a gossip magazine going on about how Bruce's behavior greatly changed. Like gossiping about the fact that he's taking up Karate classes, etc. And then show a few scenes where the paparazzi was swarming the Wayne mansion.

          Then Gordon comments about how heartless the press is, to hound a young man who just lost his parents like that. And he remarks that if they kept that up, the poor boy was going to turn into a complete recluse. And sure enough, The young boy seems to have withdrawn from public while apparently increasing the amount of private classes that he was taking...

          Boom! Enough Batman foreshadowing to keep the viewers happy, and then the rest of the series is a noir-style police drama show featuring Gordon and no cameos from bruce unless the plot really, really needs it. And with enough time progression over a few seasons to age everyone up. And then have the final season tackle the appearance of the Batman and how the police is taking it. The finale ending is where Gordon and The batman finally come to an understanding about protecting Gotham.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think I'm in the minority in liking it the way it is, at least on this forum. When I saw the first preview, I thought, "great, Batman without Batman, so...it's CSI Gotham?" But I think if you're able to think of the show as only loosely inspired by Gotham City and Batman stories, and not a true-to-the-comics prequel to the Batman universe, it's pretty darn enjoyable. Batman has always been my favorite comic book, but in that universe, Batman/Bruce Wayne is my least favorite character. But I always found the villains the most colorful and Gotham City is, IMO, by far the most detailed, established, and unique cities across the comic universes.

            It's one thing to watch a comic movie and know which characters to expect. But watching a week-to-week series full of easter eggs, constantly wondering which character emerge, makes it really easy to ignore the actual stories taking place.

            I think this series has just enough of the essence of Batman and Gotham City to create a unique environment in which to tell stories. But I'm not thinking of it in terms of Batman, rather a unique story with new possibilities. In that regard it kind of is like CSI Gotham, but the city and its characters being larger-than-life sets it apart from mundane cop-dramas.

            I think if someone watches it as a prequel to one of the many Batman franchises, they'll be disappointed. It's not a retelling like The Flash or Arrow. It's a show about the GPD, organized crime, and political corruption. Maybe that's not true to the artistry that created the Batman franchise, maybe it's just profitable fan-fiction. But that doesn't mean it can't be a fun ride.

            I'm actually kind of wondering how Fox is getting away with their usage of these DC characters since Warner Brothers owns the rights. I'm not sure how far the network is even allowed to go with them. They might be setting up entirely unique story lines just to keep from being sued.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stardelphia
              I think I'm in the minority in liking it the way it is, at least on this forum. When I saw the first preview, I thought, "great, Batman without Batman, so...it's CSI Gotham?" But I think if you're able to think of the show as only loosely inspired by Gotham City and Batman stories, and not a true-to-the-comics prequel to the Batman universe, it's pretty darn enjoyable. Batman has always been my favorite comic book, but in that universe, Batman/Bruce Wayne is my least favorite character. But I always found the villains the most colorful and Gotham City is, IMO, by far the most detailed, established, and unique cities across the comic universes.

              It's one thing to watch a comic movie and know which characters to expect. But watching a week-to-week series full of easter eggs, constantly wondering which character emerge, makes it really easy to ignore the actual stories taking place.

              I think this series has just enough of the essence of Batman and Gotham City to create a unique environment in which to tell stories. But I'm not thinking of it in terms of Batman, rather a unique story with new possibilities. In that regard it kind of is like CSI Gotham, but the city and its characters being larger-than-life sets it apart from mundane cop-dramas.

              I think if someone watches it as a prequel to one of the many Batman franchises, they'll be disappointed. It's not a retelling like The Flash or Arrow. It's a show about the GPD, organized crime, and political corruption. Maybe that's not true to the artistry that created the Batman franchise, maybe it's just profitable fan-fiction. But that doesn't mean it can't be a fun ride.

              I'm actually kind of wondering how Fox is getting away with their usage of these DC characters since Warner Brothers owns the rights. I'm not sure how far the network is even allowed to go with them. They might be setting up entirely unique story lines just to keep from being sued.
              Well I would not exactly say minority. I guess a part of me is being the writer and wondering ok would work if it was different? Also if Fox is trying to create something unique so they don't get sued and if they want to not have to worry about the whole prequel stuff. How about they kill off Bruce Wayne? That would be a shocker for sure and it would also allow for a lot more creativity in is universe. Imagine a world that Batman at least by Bruce Wayne will not be around.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Haggard01
                Well I would not exactly say minority. I guess a part of me is being the writer and wondering ok would work if it was different? Also if Fox is trying to create something unique so they don't get sued and if they want to not have to worry about the whole prequel stuff. How about they kill off Bruce Wayne? That would be a shocker for sure and it would also allow for a lot more creativity in is universe. Imagine a world that Batman at least by Bruce Wayne will not be around.
                That would definitely create an interesting situation! I don't see that happening though. At the same time, it's hard to see Bruce Wayne going through the "playboy party phase" created for the Batman franchises. In fact, that might be one way to create a unique Bruce Wayne character in Fox''s Gotham. The comics (as far as I know) never really bridged the gap between the Bruce Wayne who saw his parents killed and the Bruce Wayne who became Batman. Maybe they did and I never saw it. But it seems like they're setting up a character who's being groomed for vengeance much earlier than in the movies I've seen.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stardelphia
                  That would definitely create an interesting situation! I don't see that happening though. At the same time, it's hard to see Bruce Wayne going through the "playboy party phase" created for the Batman franchises. In fact, that might be one way to create a unique Bruce Wayne character in Fox''s Gotham. The comics (as far as I know) never really bridged the gap between the Bruce Wayne who saw his parents killed and the Bruce Wayne who became Batman. Maybe they did and I never saw it. But it seems like they're setting up a character who's being groomed for vengeance much earlier than in the movies I've seen.
                  From the comics standpoint no they never di bridge the gap entirely between Bruce Wayne seeing parents get killed and Batman.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Haggard01
                    From the comics standpoint no they never di bridge the gap entirely between Bruce Wayne seeing parents get killed and Batman.
                    I didn't think so. In that regard it might have been a smarter move to put the murder in a flashback, and make Gotham's Bruce Wayne in his late teens. As it is, the show will need to last for a good ten years if they even want Bruce to suit up. Even then, it won't satisfy the Batman purists. Batman has always been one of the older superheroes, usually played by someone in his 30s or 40s.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think if they called the series 'Wayne' or 'Wayne Manor' I would expect Bruce to be front and centre, with most of the main plots and story arcs revolving around him. They wisely chose not to do this. The expectations are already high enough when you invoke the name Wayne -- to name the show after him would have created (fair or not) expectations that it was nothing but Batman. By calling it Gotham, it covers Batman's universe: the cops, the villains, the politics, the average citizens, the elites -- and yes, Bruce himself. He is an important part of the puzzle, but he doesn't have to be in every single plot in every single episode. He's not, thankfully, in the series but I would probably side with those who believe less is more re: Bruce and Batman shout-outs.

                      SV went easter egg crazy throughout its run, especially in the later seasons. "See? Look at Clark hang out with other future JLAers. He really is going to be Superman!" Some worked, others only made him look like he was still not ready yet to be the first of all superheroes. I like easter eggs too, but there's a way they can handle it without this sort of hammer-on-anvil approach. A little subtlety goes a long way. And they shouldn't let the easter eggs overwhelm what's actually going on with show and its characters. Maybe that's why I find myself becoming intrigued by some of the secondary characters (Butch, Nygma, Kringle etc.) who aren't going to be as pigeon-holed by canon as say, Bruce, Alfred or Gordon. Penguin is killing it this season and while Fish may be a polarizing villain among the fandom, the unpredictability factor with her is keeping my interest so far.

                      Originally posted by Stardelphia
                      It's one thing to watch a comic movie and know which characters to expect. But watching a week-to-week series full of easter eggs, constantly wondering which character emerge, makes it really easy to ignore the actual stories taking place.

                      I think this series has just enough of the essence of Batman and Gotham City to create a unique environment in which to tell stories. But I'm not thinking of it in terms of Batman, rather a unique story with new possibilities. In that regard it kind of is like CSI Gotham, but the city and its characters being larger-than-life sets it apart from mundane cop-dramas.
                      I agree. I think the show could benefit from some tweaks and adjustments, but not an across-the-board overhaul. Bruce Wayne was always going to be a factor in the series, it's the degree to how much/little he is involved in the action that some viewers seem to object to. I'm fine with Bruce being more in the backdrop than he's been of late. It is uncharted territory in the sense that the era of Bruce's "school years" hasn't been explored at any length, even in the comics. And the era many Batman fans have at least heard of -- his "training years", mostly overseas -- hadn't been seen/explored unless it was a few stories here or there in the comics or in Batman Begins. One would think Bruce at his age in Gotham can't do much as a kid, but they've already challenged this notion by having Bruce challenge the board and investigate his parents' murders. This largely untapped era of Bruce is about as blank a slate as they could get with a superhero who's been portrayed and re-interpreted over several decades.

                      I would be uneasy with any idea of a "coming of age"-type Bruce (h.s. or college) where he's finding himself and could too easily slip into juvenile melodrama. And guess what would take backseat then -- Bruce actually doing the things that get him from being a mere student to a legendary superhero. The maelstrom re: the Adam Knight stuff on SV was enough, thanks. Once burned, twice shy -- at least for me.

                      Flash and Arrow are fine in their own right. For fans who always wanted to see "Batman" stories, as of this season Arrow is probably your best bet -- Bat influences aplenty in there, even though you'll have to settle for a hood instead of a cowl. While they are unabashedly superhero-focused tv shows, Gotham is a bit more than that. The shadow of Bruce Wayne will always be over the show, but it's not all about Bruce. Nor should it be. It's a bit of everything (including at times melodrama) and while some of the parts don't always mesh re: their execution, as a whole it's a series that does have a lot of potential even if Bruce, Alfred or Gordon are only part of an ensemble cast.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by President_Luthor
                        I agree. I think the show could benefit from some tweaks and adjustments, but not an across-the-board overhaul. Bruce Wayne was always going to be a factor in the series, it's the degree to how much/little he is involved in the action that some viewers seem to object to. I'm fine with Bruce being more in the backdrop than he's been of late. It is uncharted territory in the sense that the era of Bruce's "school years" hasn't been explored at any length, even in the comics. And the era many Batman fans have at least heard of -- his "training years", mostly overseas -- hadn't been seen/explored unless it was a few stories here or there in the comics or in Batman Begins. One would think Bruce at his age in Gotham can't do much as a kid, but they've already challenged this notion by having Bruce challenge the board and investigate his parents' murders. This largely untapped era of Bruce is about as blank a slate as they could get with a superhero who's been portrayed and re-interpreted over several decades.

                        I would be uneasy with any idea of a "coming of age"-type Bruce (h.s. or college) where he's finding himself and could too easily slip into juvenile melodrama. And guess what would take backseat then -- Bruce actually doing the things that get him from being a mere student to a legendary superhero. The maelstrom re: the Adam Knight stuff on SV was enough, thanks. Once burned, twice shy -- at least for me.

                        Flash and Arrow are fine in their own right. For fans who always wanted to see "Batman" stories, as of this season Arrow is probably your best bet -- Bat influences aplenty in there, even though you'll have to settle for a hood instead of a cowl. While they are unabashedly superhero-focused tv shows, Gotham is a bit more than that. The shadow of Bruce Wayne will always be over the show, but it's not all about Bruce. Nor should it be. It's a bit of everything (including at times melodrama) and while some of the parts don't always mesh re: their execution, as a whole it's a series that does have a lot of potential even if Bruce, Alfred or Gordon are only part of an ensemble cast.
                        Cop dramas have been a mainstay of entertainment since the 1950s, and they largely succeed because there is an endless supply of subject matter. Gotham took advantage of a unique opportunity to blend the cop drama with the comics. While cop dramas are large ensemble casts of cops and lawyers, Gotham has managed to take advantage of ensembles of both cops and criminals, heroes and villains, and that creates a continuous narrative.

                        In my opinion, Bruce is perhaps the least important character on Gotham. He was the catalyst for a storyline that continues to evolve. He may play a larger role later on, but only when it makes sense.

                        Comment

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