12 Monkeys (Syfy)

[Aries83]

Ok. So, I usually wait until the next day to dissect, but since I went a little lite on what I thought about last night's episodes, I thought I'd chime in now.

I LOVED it! Here are my thoughts on the major plots:

• Creation of "The Word of the Witness" - I thought it was really cool to see Athan channel all his visions into the document. On semi-related note, I totally forgot to give Alisen Down (Olivia) MAJOR props for her impersonation of Jennifer during the "Word of the Witness" montage (where Jennifer hatched her plan). It was SPOT-ON! I thought it was HILARIOUS!
• Eliza and her fate - OMG, this whole arc was SO sad. However, I thought James Callis (and the actress who played Eliza) did a FANTASTIC job bringing so much depth to their characters with so little time. It was amazing how much I felt for BOTH of them towards the end of the first episode.
• Cole/Cassie meet their son - This was pretty cool, even though it was sort of spoiled in some of the promos for this season.
• Olivia, The true Witness - My mouth was literally on the FLOOR when Athan confirmed this. I can't say I fully understand what they did in this moment—mainly because I don't think they knew she was the real Witness from the start back in the first two seasons. In my opinion, there were too many red herrings for that to be the case. When Cassie and Cole both drank the Red Tea, each of them saw themselves as The Witness. So did Olivia, if I'm not mistaken. So, I think it was up in the air until the decision was made to have her be the true Witness. I have to give Olivia credit. She is very cunning, and as much as I LOVE a strong female character, I truly want her DEAD! () I guess I was right to suspect Mallick (the bald guy) was working with her, too. Oh, and: Who else GASPED when Olivia stabbed Jones? I hope she gets her back for that!
• Athan's death - I am SO not accepting this! () The character is just too damn good to be dead! I'm ok with Olivia being The Witness, but only because that lets Athan off the hook for being the bad guy (I LOVED that he showed up and did the right thing at the end). There's so much they could do with this character, it'd be a shame for it to be the end. However, I think his final line to Cassie, "I'll see you soon," is very telling My hope is that he'll have A LOT more scenes with Jennifer. Girl really needs to learn how to map/graph her visions. He could teach her! Also, I really LOVED that Jones thanked Jennifer for saving Hannah!
• The final flashback - It was cool seeing Cole's dad again (when they flashbacked to 2015). I think it's safe to say that Mama Cole is on her way—unless she's already crossed paths with her son? To that end, I've seen some people theorizing that Jennifer could be Cole's mother since she drew the Ouroboros (Snake/serpent) symbol early on in the season. I don't think so! Remember, Matthew (James' father) told him that his mother's name was Marion. Besides, if it were Jennifer, that would mean that she had the hots for (and tried to make out with) her own son, which is gross. Here's a thought, though. Matthew said that when he met Marion, she already knew about TAot12M. If she has absolutely NO ties to Leland Goines or Markridge, then the only way she must've known about TAot12M was if she were primary and had visions of her son's doomed future. I can't wait to meet her. I wonder who they'll cast?

My biggest wish for the Final Season is that they get Madeleine Stowe back for just ONE, final cameo! Bring back Lillian! Please!

Anyway, it was a GREAT season. I loved it. It sucks that we have to wait 9+ months for it to come back, though, but based on how well-written this season was, I'm willing to wait!

[Aries83]

Entertainment Weekly is reporting that Season 4 of 12 Monkeys premieres on Friday, June 15, at 8/7c.

Read the article for the full schedule of episodes, as SyFy is making the final season a four-week event (They're airing 3 episodes every Friday [for 3 weeks] until the 2-hour Series Finale airs on Friday, July 6.

I like this schedule compared to last season's 3 episodes per day format. That was a bit much.

I think I can handle 3 episodes a week.

I will post the airtimes [in Central time] as the premiere grows closer. I CANNOT wait!

[Aries83]

Ok. So, The Final Season of 12 Monkeys officially kicks off tomorrow night!

It starts at 8/7c!

Remember, SyFy is airing 3 episodes EVERY Friday until the 2-Hour Series Finale on July 6, 2018.

My guide (I'm in central time) says the first 3 eps are airing from 7:00 PM - 9:53 PM.

I can't wait! How about you?

[Aries83]

Ok. I thought the first 3 episodes were a really good start. The first episode had a really cinematic feel to it.

Instead of picking each episode apart (like I normally do), I'm just going to talk about the issues/questions that stuck out the most.

Here goes:

• Deacon's "bad" turn - This bothers me. When he got left behind, I was thinking to myself, "Oh, please don't let this cause problems..." The writers have done so much over the past two seasons to redeem him, and—as a character—he was really starting to feel like an important part of the crew. Now, in the blink of an eye, he's Olivia's lap dog? The biggest gripe about it is that: A). He was warned not to be outside of the perimeter of the relay beams and B). He decided to take the risk to buy them time. Then, after the fact, he's pissed off at everybody for a choice he made of his own free will? It just felt so contrived. Granted, I understand the ambiguity they're going for with the character (Is he good? Is he bad? Is he in between?), but it just wasn't needed. Of course, part of me thinks he'll serve Olivia as long as he survives (which I think makes the most sense), but—for now—it irritates me.
• Who or where is Olivia's child? - Do I even need to say more than that? It was definitely the head-scratcher of the night. Why was it abandoned? What role will/has it played? I'm at a loss to even begin to understand, although I thought it was hinted that the child was connected to "The Djinn" (or the endless timeline) everyone was stuck in?

Anyway, that's all I've got. Out of the 3 episodes, two was my favorite—because it was essentially a paradox (confirmed when Cole mentioned the power drain on the machine the first time around). Everything we saw basically already happened. Kind of a fun episode when you factor that in. Plus, it brought back Ramse and gave Cole (and others) closure on past events.

It was a good start. Can't wait for the next 3!

[Aries83]

Just wanted to update the thread with listings from my guide:

Part 2 of the 4-week event for the show is airing this Friday from 7:00 PM - 9:59 PM!

[Aries83]

Well, Part 2—for me—was just as good as Part 1. I didn't expect so much character development for the Jones family, which was a nice surprise.

My unanswered questions after last night:

• Where or when did Jones send Hannah?
• Will Cassie join TAot12M? - Question of the night, right? Here's another: Was it future Cassie or past Cassie that Shaw (Pallid Man's father) was talking to? Either way, something will go down there. Otherwise, that scene wouldn't have even been shown. What will Cassie do?
• What is Jones/Deacon's plan? - Jones giving herself up makes sense since she's on "borrowed" time, but what could Olivia possibly do with her? Also, has Jones figured out a way to save herself? There has to be more to it!

That's all I've got. I was happy they resolved the matter with Deacon. Dragging that out any further would've just prompted lots of eyerolls. Was it just me, or was Jennifer really excited to see Deacon in Germany? I have no idea what the endgame is for ANY of these characters, but: I wouldn't mind if something romantic happened between them.

Oh, and: Who knew Emma was Olivia's daughter?! Thank God they put that on the table because—last we saw—she was abandoned by a tree... My guess, based on her accent, was that she was sent to London and grew up protected by TAot12M (like Athan).

Anyway, I really enjoyed it. This is totally beside the point, but: I made a VERY strong Screwdriver cocktail (2 ounces vodka, 1 ounce sweetened, store-bought orange juice, 1 maraschino cherry) during the first commercial break of the last episode. It hit me shortly before Madame Magnifique smashed the J.H. Bond record. I could NOT stop laughing at Jennifer's reaction (or her performance of the Pink song at the end)...

I can't wait for next week, though. Hopefully, the questions they posed will be answered!

[Aries83]

T-minus 2 hours to the penultimate installment, Part 3, airing from 7:00 PM - 10:00 PM.

I'm ready!

[Aries83]

Surprisingly, my only unanswered question from last night was/is:

• Is Deacon really dead? - He gave his knife to Jennifer and said he'd take it back one day. I have to believe that he will, which could mean something happens (that we haven't seen yet) to make it possible.

Now, to major elephant in room - The reveal that it was actually Hannah (not Emma) that was Cole's mother - This blew my mind! The second Jones uttered Hannah's name, I gasped and screamed, "No!," at the TV! That's when it all fit together (and I knew they would flashback and show Hannah with Matthew instead of Emma (like in the previous episode). I almost cried like a baby during the reveal monologue. It was just CRAZY! Part of me suspected Emma was a red herring, but I NEVER suspected it would be Hannah.

It makes all the interactions they've had in previous episodes (like when she walked with Cole so he "wouldn't be alone") all the more special. The same goes for Jones, too. I wanted to see more of the 3 of them together, but I understand why it was so short. It was interesting that they went back a year prior and told her what she would do. I hope there are more scenes from that jump back.

I could write a book about all the other things that were revealed, like how it was James/Cassie who released the plague, but: I'll keep it short and just say that even that made sense because the whole season has been about how everyone is stuck in the endless cycle. They have been chasing themselves from the very beginning. It's interesting how every moment from the entire series can basically be called a paradox since all of it has already happened (probably more than once, too).

Anyway, I was blown away by the end of the third episode and can't wait to see how it will all end next week. I'm off to read the first post mortem article I can find...

[InactiveUserID]

Monkey Head Paradox Key unlocks a paradox,
I'm not here for your entertainment,
Daughters gotta stick together cuz moms are weird,
So...it was necessary for them to cause the plague , the idea being that Titan was already built and exists beyond causality as of 5 minutes ago, so now the splinter team's only option is to live to fight on and let humanity die, because stopping the plague no longer stops Olivia from destroying time.
Primary night fires are the best. That's the ep I'll hold on to.
Removing Cole from time by attacking all the moments he touched reminds me of my theory for how to defeat Legacy of Kain's timelord villain, the ELder God, a giant squid entity who's infested the Wheel of Fate with his numerous tentacles and eyeballs. You've got to find a way to fatally paradox him so he's cut out from the entire timeline simultaneously, or else he'd totally see it coming. That's the problem with the Witness. How to beat her without her seeing it coming.

[Aries83]

was necessary for them to cause the plague , the idea being that Titan was already built and exists beyond causality as of 5 minutes ago, so now the splinter team's only option is to live to fight on and let humanity die, because stopping the plague no longer stops Olivia from destroying time.

I can't recall exactly what was said, but they implied that the creation of time travel would be erased once the ultimate paradox occurred. So, if they were stuck in the future timeline, they'd have no way to go back to try and stop her (or something like that).

They also said that the plague had to occur in order for time travel to be created. I'm assuming it has the most to do with Katarina. Losing Hannah spurred her to finish the time machine so she could send someone back to try to reverse the plague and, at some point, save her daughter.

They also realized, although I can't remember exactly what was said, that Olivia was stuck in a Jinn/Djinn cycle of her own, which I assumed meant that they'd run into her over and over again no matter what. So, maybe they just felt that they had to do what they could with the time they had?

However, I'm not sure why they were so concerned about time travel being undone once she used Titan given that there's a future version of Cole (and maybe Cassie) using Athan's power suit, but whatever...

You've got to find a way to fatally paradox him so he's cut out from the entire timeline simultaneously, or else he'd totally see it coming. That's the problem with the Witness. How to beat her without her seeing it coming.

One of the things that irks me about her is: If she's "witnessed" so much, why didn't she just eliminate Hannah from the original timeline? That way, he would've never been born, which would've saved everybody from being stuck in the time loop, Great Cycle (or Jinn/Djinn)—whatever you want to call it. If she (Olivia) didn't know that after "witnessing" so much, she's a dullard!

[InactiveUserID]

the plague had to occur in order for time travel to be created. Olivia was stuck in a Jinn/Djinn cycle of her own.
One of the things that irks me about her is: If she's "witnessed" so much, why didn't she just eliminate Hannah from the original timeline? That way, he would've never been born

She needed his bumbling mistakes during the loops to remain intact, that's what sets up her victory. He's the demon who jacks time around. It's the primaries who want to erase Cole's history so Titan comes down like a house of cards no longer supported by Cole as a load bearing "member." I want to see what kind of moose they pull out of their hat for the finale so he still gets to live AND win. (maybe). It's been a better ride than average.

[Aries83]

She needed his bumbling mistakes during the loops to remain intact, that's what sets up her victory. He's the demon who jacks time around. It's the primaries who want to erase Cole's history so Titan comes down like a house of cards no longer supported by Cole as a load bearing "member."

I get what you're saying. I never thought about it like that, but it really shows how never-ending the cycle they're all caught up in is.

I want to see what kind of moose they pull out of their hat for the finale so he still gets to live AND win. (maybe).

I think I'll be satisfied no matter what they go with. However, my feeling is that it will probably be a "bittersweet" ending.

It's been a better ride than average.

So true! I just checked my guide: The Series Finale airs from 8:00 PM - 10:05 PM.

I'm going to miss the show terribly, but I'm excited!

[Aries83]

Well, here is my biggest unanswered question from last night's Series Finale:

• Why were there seemingly two versions of Jennifer? - If the purpose of completing Cole's cycle (and erasure) was to reset time so that everybody would have the life they were supposed to have minus the plague (or some version of it), why did they show future (?) Jennifer sitting in a bar (owned by Deacon [and I assume his brother]) AFTER they showed present-day Jennifer unveiling her bio-engineered unicorn? How does that work, especially when Jones confirmed that everybody was sent back to their respective timelines so the causality of everything they did up to that point would stay intact once/if time was reset?

It leads to more questions, too, like:

• Is she possibly a twin present-day Jennifer doesn't know about yet?
• Is she just a doppelganger? - Deacon had no interaction with her, so that lead me to think that her presence there was totally random. In other words, was Jennifer always supposed to have a doppelganger out there that she was never meant to cross paths with?
• Does she recognize present-day Jennifer when she sees her on TV?

I could go on and on, but I won't. Was it even the same timeline? What am I missing here, or am I just thinking too hard?

Anyway, my thoughts on the rest of it:

• Rame's fate - Is it just me or did this spoil the final showdown slightly? Since he already died the first time around, it basically sealed Olivia's fate and guaranteed that they would succeed in the end. I wouldn't call it anticlimactic, but still...
• Patient Zero revealed - I was so happy when they confirmed that it was Olivia who was the centuries-old corpse in The Night Room. For the longest time, I thought it was a future version of Cole that somehow got sent back in time, mainly because—when he first encountered the corpse—you saw the paradox effect take hold when he got close to it. I'm glad they resolved that! Also, this is just a guess, but: I assume Olivia ended up in 894 because she was so close to "the end of time" itself near the end.
• Cassie's full message revealed - I always wondered what her full message she left for Cole said. Now, I know

Well, that's it. I can't believe it's over, but it was such a JOY to watch every week for the past 3-4 years. I think it will go down as one of the best time travel shows ever made.

Oh, yeah: I cried like a baby when time basically caught up to itself and he showed up outside the house. They deserved that ending, and I'm glad it was a happy one!

Anyway, I'm off to read my first post mortem article. Maybe some of my questions will be answered

[InactiveUserID]

It was stiff! So they just grabbed everyone from the entire timeline cuz there was nothing to lose anymore. I've also been an advocate of doing that in other time travel stories!

The older Jennifer has been part of the gang for a while, popping in every so often. I think they introduced the older Goines to use the Wandering Jew motif of living on and on without a proper home (timeframe). I didn't see that episode, or forgot it, so I don't know if she's semi-paradox-ish or legit by timeline standards, but she's been around, last week too, so basically there's 2 Jenns on their roster. She's been working on things behind the scenes, tying up loose ends to keep the timeline going good for the good guys, as she alluded to the knife-ally-guy as they walked off together ("we still have a lot of work to do" in order to keep continuity from being a problem). If she's always lived to see the end of this, and has access to the Red Tea, that may be how she's been whispering the voices to herself this whole time?? That I don't know. Haven't watched the whole series.

[Aries83]

The older Jennifer has been part of the gang for a while, popping in every so often. I think they introduced the older Goines to use the Wandering Jew motif of living on and on without a proper home (timeframe). I didn't see that episode, or forgot it, so I don't know if she's semi-paradox-ish or legit by timeline standards, but she's been around, last week too, so basically there's 2 Jenns on their roster.

Rght. I can't remember when she met her future (older) self, but they did have to keep their distance from each other so a paradox didn't occur. "Which came first?" has always been a question. Like, when old Jennifer said, "Hello, egg, I'm chicken."

She's been working on things behind the scenes, tying up loose ends to keep the timeline going good for the good guys, as she alluded to the knife-ally-guy as they walked off together ("we still have a lot of work to do" in order to keep continuity from being a problem).

Yeah, I just don't get how she ended up with Deacon after the reset, especially when it seemed like Cassie was talking about ONE single timeline (2013-2018) when the fate of the others was being shown.

The only way it makes sense to me is if she and Deacon exist in a divergent timeline that's similar to the one Cassie and the others ended up in once time was reset. Otherwise, how do you explain an aged Jennifer from 2043 existing between 2013-2018—the same time frame young Jennifer takes over the Markridge group and unveils her bio-engineered unicorn? How can two versions of the same person exist in the same timeline like that? It makes no sense.

I wish I could watch that montage again, but it's not on YouTube yet.

It's driving me nuts, and—so far—no one has brought up Old Jennifer in any of the post mortem write-ups I've seen.

Oh well. We'll probably never know...