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  1. #31
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    I could be wrong but didn't Oliver use the herbs on Diggle when Diggle was shot be Deadshot? That would have been a physical wound.
    He used the herbs because Diggle was shot with bullet laced with curare, not because he suffered a physical wound. However, the "magic" herbs seems to help heal faster and also prevent wounds from festering. But I doubt they can be any help when a lung is punctured. However, it seems that in some circumstances collapsed lung is actually a survivable injury. But without fast treatment he would just suffocate eventually.

    Guess it's high time Batman appeared to save the Arrow and to kick Ra's ass to show how it's supposed to be done.

  2. #32
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    Bat Mite?

  3. #33
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    I really hope that they would come with sensible explanation and it's not going to be dying and being resurrected. Really, the death should be something final and irreversible - only then it has a proper emotional meanining. So far all of the characters, who came back, didn't actually die. In Merlyn case it's a far-fetched explanation, but let's just suppouse, that he was not stabbed through the heart (has dextrocardia perhaps? ). It's tv show based on comics, but it should be at least a bit grounded in the reality...
    Actually we don't really know what happened with Malcolm in the season 1 finale. Oliver shoved the arrow through his own shoulder into Malcolm behind him blindly, so Oliver may have never hit Malcolm in the heart but his left lung instead. We saw Malcolm collapsed on the rooftop as Oliver took off to rescue Laurel and Tommy but nothing afterward. A punctured lung is survivable and you only suffocate if both lungs are punctured or if the chest cavity isn't harmed to allow the air escaping the damaged lung to escape the chest cavity which would lead to the undamaged lung also collapsing. Aside from the fall from the cliff Oliver is similarly injured as was Malcolm and therefore I'm not so convinced he's dead.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipzo View Post
    That herb has been shown to clense the body of toxin's, not recover from physical injuries though so I don't see what good it will do here.
    Actually it does speed up recovery time, remember when Roy snapped olivers leg when he was raging out on the mirakuru, he used the herbs and a but load of pain killers and within an episode he was right as rain

  5. #35
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    I think Oliver is going to come back, probably within few epsiodes (a month or two). As mentioned the main questions are how, who will help him, how will it affect him going forward, and what will the others do while he is gone?

    I see a few possibilities for how Oliver comes back:
    1) The stab wound and fall werenít fatal. Oliver suffered a lung puncture that didnít kill him, he gets medical attention before hypothermia sets in and before he bleeds out. The problem with that scenario is that the wounds plus fall would be nearly impossible to survive, Oliver would need immediate high-caliber ER type-surgery to repair the damage and consider the remote location I donít think that is likely either. Not only so, if he didnít die, then the blood debt may not be paid off and Thea could still be on the hook.

    2) I think it is more likely that the writers go the Lazarus pit route. They have hinted that it exists since Raís says he hasnít been challenged in 67 years. Even if that challenge was when he first killed someone at age 11 that would make him 78 so he must have a way of renewing himself. In this case, Oliver would actually be dead (which is the most likely considering his wounds and fall) and would have fulfilled the blood debt for Thea.

    3) Mirakuru/herbs could be used. But I think the side effects of the mirakuru wouldn't be worth it to Oliver, unliess he ahs secretly revised the formula. Also, I don't think the herbs can heal a stab wound. They can help remove toxins and prevent infection and speed recovery but not heal majoy injuries lie Olivers.

    Who helps him? I have read a lot of theories- here is my take on them:

    1. Malcom Merlin- a) JB hinted in an interview earlier that MM would be on a mountain around this time. b) MM would know where and the when the fight was happening and would also know whereabouts of the Pit. So that is a good possibility BUT I question why bother to save Oliver and if he is going to save Oliver why set him up to fight Raís in the first place?
      1. JB has said in an interview that MM views Oliver like a son so maybe in his deranged way he is thinking he couldnít save Tommy but he can save Oliver. OR he could want to have Oliver around to manipulate into doing stuff for him like Thea- a junior league of assassins perhaps OR he may think the pit will make Oliver strong enough to beat Raís the next time.
      2. BUT I donít think he would really want to revive Oliver. His original intention all the way back in season 1 was to destroy the Glades and rebuild it/run it as he sees fit. He wasnít successful because Oliver got in his way and Black Canary in Season 2 was helping as well. By killing the BC and setting up Oliver to take the fall he clears out both problems. Not only that, he keeps Thea for himself without killing Oliver directly and now Thea has no family but him. She may even blame the LoA for Oliverís death putting her more firmly in his campl and under his control. I also think trying to control Oliver or change him via the Lazarus pit would be risky. There is no way of knowing how heíll be affected, he may become too strong and turn on Malcom, he may not be susceptible to Malcomís schemes. I would think Malcom would prefer to have him out of the way altogether

    2. Maseo- This seems the most likely to me. He would also know about the pit and is there on the mountain. He could save Oliver as a re-payment of a debt not yet shown- part of the ďitĒ that happened in the past. Would also tie into Oliverís challenge to not live by two names.
    3. Raís himself- I donít think itís likely but it could be that he thought Oliver showed potential. Had to kill him to pay debt, but wants him alive to join assassins.
    4. Nyssa- Also not likely IMO, but could be that she knows he didnít really kill Sara and she admires him for protecting those he loves.


    How does it affect him;
    I have not read the comics and had never heard of the Lazarus pit before reading the episode discussions. I have read some posts that say it can cause amnesia. Most seem to say that the lasting effect is that heíll come back angry/darker. I have no idea how heíll be affected. I just really, really hope it is not for the worst or that if it is, it doesnít last long. Weíve already seen the dark, angry, vengeful, ends-justify all means version of Oliver. He started out the show with Raís mentality- replace evil with death. But Oliver has made the choice not to kill and recently even started questioning the need/morality of torturing people to get info. He has been on a path to be a better, more typical hero and I really donít want to see him go back through all the dark stuff and end up no better than Raís.

    In the interim:

    I think weíll see Laurel try to step up as Canary. I donít think sheís ready. I donít think boxing lessons alone will give her the necessary skills. I agree with other posters that she needs another/better mentor (although I do like the Ted Grant character). Roy, Diggle, and Felicity will try to continue on. Perhaps they will help or work with Laurel as the BC? I think the of loss of Oliver will drive Felicity closer to Ray- she knows heís been through a similar loss, heís kind, compassionate, and will offer her support. Plus he needs her help and having something constructive do will help her cope. Not sure if the atom suit will be fully functional- maybe weíll see Ray/ Felicity testing some prototypes? If that happens it will set up some drama for the time when Oliver comes back. I can see him come back more clear about who he is and what he wants and proves to Felicity he can be both Oliver and the Arrow. Or, Oliver comes back darker and angry. Felcity doesnít like or recognize this new version of Oliver (who isnít really the Oliver she fell in love with) and decides she would rather be with Ray. The changed (angry) Oliver is more similar to Laurel now so they get back together. This would match the comic book ďcanonĒ but I for one donít want to see that version of Oliver. Iím rooting for Felicity to draw Oliver back and keep pushing him to be the best version of himself.

    I'm sorry this is so long. I've been thinking about it for a while and finally got it all out!

  6. #36
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    Go back and watch the show again and all thru the show pay close attention to the flash backs they are Oliver climbing back up the Mountain. So at the end of the show it has to be Maseo who brings him his bag. When Oliver is packing the bag in the Arrow cave you will notice he packed the Herbs in the bag.

  7. #37
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    I can't imagine he left without those herbs, knowing he was going to a life or death battle.

  8. #38
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    What If Oliver found a fountain just like the one that gave Ra's AlGul his "Immortality".... Long shot I know :P..

  9. #39
    I'm One In An Infinity amoretpax199's Avatar
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    He is dead but he will be resurrected eventually.

  10. #40
    I think that Oliver will come back. If he's really dead he will resurrect or someone will find him and heal him after. Oliver Queen is a character too much important to disapear from the tv show.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    He used the herbs because Diggle was shot with bullet laced with curare, not because he suffered a physical wound. However, the "magic" herbs seems to help heal faster and also prevent wounds from festering. But I doubt they can be any help when a lung is punctured. However, it seems that in some circumstances collapsed lung is actually a survivable injury. But without fast treatment he would just suffocate eventually.

    Guess it's high time Batman appeared to save the Arrow and to kick Ra's ass to show how it's supposed to be done.
    Going back thru this thread :P
    Ollie was using this herb to help heal his screwed up leg after Roy stomped it in a mirakuru rage last season. So it definitely speeds up regular healing as well.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by French Arrow View Post
    I think that Oliver will come back. If he's really dead he will resurrect or someone will find him and heal him after. Oliver Queen is a character too much important to disapear from the tv show.
    This is the bottom line. Can't have a show called Arrow without the Arrow in it.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightHawk777 View Post
    This is the bottom line. Can't have a show called Arrow without the Arrow in it.
    Not to mention the fact that Stephen posted on his facebook account that he couldn't make an up coming comic-con which he was scheduled to attend but had to cancel because he was shooting the finale that day.

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