View Poll Results: Rate This Episode

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  • 10 - Climbed to the top of the greatest episodes ever.

    29 56.86%
  • 9

    13 25.49%
  • 8

    4 7.84%
  • 7

    2 3.92%
  • 6

    1 1.96%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    1 1.96%
  • 3

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  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Well Arrow is dead in more ways than one.

    1 1.96%
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  1. #31
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Just thinking out loud here, but what if Ra's was behind Sara's death. Most people think Malcolm tricked Oliver into fighting Ra's, but maybe Ra's told Malcolm he would forgive his transgressions if he arranged Sara's death and pinned it on Oliver. Ra's wanted Sara gone because she left the league, but he would want it done in away that his daughter wouldn't blame him for it. Blaming it on Oliver and killing him for it would maintain the league's honor without losing his daughter. The whole thing seems more like Ra's then it does Malcolm.

  2. #32
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    Amazing episode!

    I wonder if the next one will start with a voice over from Diggle instead of Oliver. "My name is John Diggle. For the past 3 years, my friend and I have been trying to make this city a better place. Now, my friend is gone..."
    Last edited by Thailog; 12-11-2014 at 10:17 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Quark: I think Oliver didn't want Thea to know. He still struggles with the whole secrets and lies aspect. I don't know why Ra's didn't care, but it might be connected to the whole, "Ra's doesn't necessarily disagree with Oliver, but thinks his view is too narrow" description they gave for the casting call.

    The one detraction I have for this episode? Same as others, it had too much going on. Before the episode began, I told the person I was watching with, "I hope they don't bother with flashbacks this episode."

    January 21st is gonna be a hell of a long wait....
    The Oliver/Thea thing makes sense I guess but if Ra's thinks Oliver's view is too narrow how is killing him going to help?

  4. #34
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    beyond saying this was an amazing episode and I enjoyed every second of it. I'll just say I find it amusing how people keep looking at perfectly survivable injuries without the laz pit and predicting that that will be what is used to heal said person.

    also it's clear that Ra's knew oliver was lying about who killed sara he couldn't not accept oliver's challenge of combat. but I wonder if he'll let it go at that and accept oliver's sacrifice or if he'll keep looking now with the knowledge that it had to be someone that oliver was willing to die for. honor is a funny thing and different people seem to have a different view of what the honorable course would be is it honorable to let someone innocent die for another's crimes or would it be honorable to ignore a persons dying wish to go after someone after going through an actual trial by combat which the results of it should be binding.
    Last edited by magicallypuzzled; 12-11-2014 at 10:49 AM.

  5. #35
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    A right lung punctured could be survivable, not sure how far the drop was. My bet is Oliver's alive but badly wounded and that's why he'll be out for 2-3 episodes while Laurel tries to fill Arrows shoes during her arc.

    I still see Ra's actual hunt was for Malcolm and Sara was a convient way for Ra's to get him. He wasn't really after Sara's killer, he wants Malcolm so I think Oliver actually taking up swords against Ra's to save Thea will take her off of Ra's hit list.

  6. #36
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    Hated it

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    So, when Oliver climbs out of the Lazarus Pit will Sara be standing there to hand him a towel???
    Good one
    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    So, when Oliver climbs out of the Lazarus Pit will Sara be standing there to hand him a towel???

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    I loved it. I liked that Ray told Felicity about his plans with the O.M.A.C./A.T.O.M. suit. Liked that they revealed who killed Sara. China White was in the flashbacks and she took Tatsu. Maseo joined the League of Assassins. Seems that everyone but Quentin knows Sara is dead. The fight between Ra's al Ghul and Oliver was awesome.
    The main character died and you loved it??

  9. #39
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    This was a really good episode.

    There were a couple of things I didn't like. One is the weird brain twisting logic that Malcolm apparently applied by mind controlling Thea into killing Sara. First, I don't understand why? Beyond the fact that I don't think Thea would have been capable, the logic here is too fuzzy for me to grasp any benefit for Malcolm. In having Thea kill Sara, they have dumbed down Sara, not promoted Thea up. There is no way Sara should have been killed by Thea, but i'll let it go. How does this benefit Malcolm? He said something about it removing his blood debt if Ollie were to win the trial by combat. Was this all so he could remove Ollie from the equation entirely? He hasn't had any trouble hiding out from the league so far, so i'm sure he can continue doing so.

    Second thing I didn't like, was the fight between Ollie and RAG. Having watched 2 1/2 seasons of this show, Ollie was fighting incredibly sloppy, making mistakes in almost 100% of his overly aggressive attacks against Ras. And he all of a sudden lost all ability to block or counter Ras attacks. I know some people are saying Greatest Fight Ever, but it really wasn't. It was one sided because of Ollie and the way he was fighting. It was a pitiful showing by someone I know can do 100 times better than what we saw. So I am puzzled by this, and can only surmise it was Ollies intent to lose that fight. Maybe he was thinking that if the loa believes he is dead, they will move on.

    And, finally, Palmer following Felicity to Verdant. Can they possible make this guy more of a stalker? Enough is enough already.

    The meeting with Thea and Laurel in the graveyard was nice. But it was peculiar in that Laurel asked Thea not to tell Oliver about Sara. Laurel already knows Ollie is aware of Sara's death, so i am guessing Laurel was just trying in some way to keep the Arrows secret. Not sure how this really helped in that. But it was also peculiar that Thea reacted so strongly to finding out, when we also find out she was the one who killed Sara. I recall Sara and Thea being friends at Verdant, so I don't think Thea will be happy to find out she killed Sara. She should also be fairly pissed at Malcolm to find out he mind controlled her

    Laurels mom showing up was interesting. She somehow sees right through Laurel, but Quentin can't? Poor Quentin, they are really setting him up for a major heart attack.

    Diggle has Roy leave the room so Ollie can say goodbye to Felicity. But before that, Diggle said something like he would rather die then let Ollie go to this thing alone. I wonder, if Diggle and Roy were somehow nearby in that final scene after Ollies fight with RAG? Who's to say they didn't follow Ollie out there? I dont know that they climbed a mountain, but maybe they were somehow nearby as best they were able.

    The flashback fight between China White and Maseos wife was excellent. Compare this against the fight Oliver had with Ras and you will see counters, blocks, smart attacks. I'm also enjoying the flashback scenes with HK Oliver and Maseo.

    Seeing Maseo there with the LOA was surprising. I wonder if he is an ARGUS plant into the LOA organization?

    And seeing Arrow get stabbed to receive a serious injury, not necessarily fatal. Probably wish he was dead from it tho. But then to see him go over the side of the cliff, that was shocking. Another moment where I had to yell at my poor TV screen lol. What a cliff hanger. I wish he was hanging, but he went over the cliff.

    So now we have several weeks to try and figure a way Ollie may have survived this battle.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRF View Post
    The sword thrust was not an instant kill shot... mid-right side, punctured a lung for sure, maybe nothing else critical. Ollie could survive that. The fall is another thing entirely. I could not reasonably estimate the distance, and even recently people have survived parachutes not opening and falling 1000s of feet without killing themselves. So, I estimate if someone finds him before the injuries or temperature kill him, he will survive without the Pit everyone is hoping for.
    Maybe you are right about that. Almost zero chance but anything can happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by MRF View Post
    Not sure how they ever top Ra's as a villain in the next seasons.
    I'm not sure either. Personally I fell in love!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MRF View Post
    Merlyn had to know Ollie was NO MATCH for Ra's.
    Maybe that was his plan all along. To send Oliver to his death and save himself at the same time. That's why he chose Thea in the first place. He knew that Oliver would never hunt down his own sister and that he would rather sacrifice his own life instead of hers.

  11. #41
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    I think Oliver knew he was going to fail. He knew he was sacrificing himself for Thea, and that he and she were both pawns for Malcolm. The only way to stop a blood feud with Ra's and prevent future payback against Thea was to sacrifice himself. maseo said to Oliver that he had no desire to see him die. On the mountain when Maseo toldOllie to take off his shirt, and choose a weapon, was there opportunity to give Ollie something to help him survive?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightHawk777 View Post
    Second thing I didn't like, was the fight between Ollie and RAG. Having watched 2 1/2 seasons of this show, Ollie was fighting incredibly sloppy, making mistakes in almost 100% of his overly aggressive attacks against Ras. And he all of a sudden lost all ability to block or counter Ras attacks. I know some people are saying Greatest Fight Ever, but it really wasn't. It was one sided because of Ollie and the way he was fighting. It was a pitiful showing by someone I know can do 100 times better than what we saw. So I am puzzled by this, and can only surmise it was Ollies intent to lose that fight. Maybe he was thinking that if the loa believes he is dead, they will move on.
    Well you need to remember that he did just climb his way up an entire mountain with no help at all. I don't care how fit you are but that is going to take a toll on your physically. Also Ra's is a vastly superior fighter to Oliver, with centuries of training behind him so he should be able to mop the floor with Oliver.
    If you see an exhibition boxing match between a retired (or almost retired) boxer and an up and coming boxer, the retired boxer will usually clean up without much of a problem given his experience. This isn't to say that the up and coming boxer can't fight as he most certainly can but he is not match against his opponent.

    Also when you think about it, he struggled to defeat Malcolm who was trained by one of Ra's underlings. Ra's is the leader of the league, the most talented fighter of them all and probably trained most of the current trainers himself. If Oliver managed to stand toe-to-toe against the Malcolm's master's master then there would be a clear problem there.

  13. #43
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    As much as I enjoyed the unexpected and surprising WTF cliffhanger (or rather clifffall), it made me miss times when the show was somehow grounded in reality (well, mostly). The main idea was good, but as some of you wrote already - it would work better as a double episodes. There is actually no time to build up the suspense which makes some part of the episode a bit rushed. Arrow is not a psychological drama but there used to be scenes/moments in the show, when one could really sympathize or feel sorry for the characters. Here, in some of the parts, like with Ray's backstory, I couldn't really care about it, not in the way it was delivered. Actually Ray's subplot starts to bore me.

    However, overall it was still quite good to watch. I liked Arrow version of Ra's, brother-sister relationship (those two snowman with Ollie and Thea names, it was sweet, also, Moira's photography on the christmas tree) and the final fight in the scenery which reminds Batman Begins setting. Dinah supporting Laurel in getting the revenge for Sara's death - that's was something unexpected. I'm really worried how Quentin is going to react when he finds out the truth about what happened to his daughter. Liked Laurel's scenes (despite the talking to the grave cliché), but I miss her interactions with Oliver. Seems that Maseo didn't die in the past after all. That's something I didn't see coming! Also, it's always nice to see Quentin - Arrow scene, even if it lasts no more than 30 seconds nowadays (I like their idea of gift exchange ).

    Not sure about that thing with brainwashed Thea killing Sara. Although it makes Malcolm really annoying and shows the manipulative side of daddy Merlyn. Olicity moment... Do I even have to write why it was out of place, not necessary, put just for the sake of some of the fans and totally without any chemistry between the characters? And please, stop reducing Dig's role to be a match-maker.

    Now I wonder how Olliver is going to come back. I really hope they will do it without Lazarus Pit or resurrection... (lung puncture, falling from the cliff, yup, most of the heroes can survive that without anything supernatural, sureeee ;p). I guess during the hiatus I'm going to watch some episodes of the first season to remind myself how the atmosphere of the show was back then and what got me hooked on Arrow in the first place. Lately I feel as if there was some consistency in the show missing, no main, strong plot line ruinning through all of the episodes...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipzo View Post
    Well you need to remember that he did just climb his way up an entire mountain with no help at all. I don't care how fit you are but that is going to take a toll on your physically. Also Ra's is a vastly superior fighter to Oliver, with centuries of training behind him so he should be able to mop the floor with Oliver.
    If you see an exhibition boxing match between a retired (or almost retired) boxer and an up and coming boxer, the retired boxer will usually clean up without much of a problem given his experience. This isn't to say that the up and coming boxer can't fight as he most certainly can but he is not match against his opponent.

    Also when you think about it, he struggled to defeat Malcolm who was trained by one of Ra's underlings. Ra's is the leader of the league, the most talented fighter of them all and probably trained most of the current trainers himself. If Oliver managed to stand toe-to-toe against the Malcolm's master's master then there would be a clear problem there.
    except for the majority of the fight Ra's wasn't showing him self to be a better fighter than oliver usually is rather oliver for what ever reason took 2 steps back in his fighting abilities. particularly the first few strikes oliver made against the unarmed Ra's he was slow and clumsy in a way the arrow never is.

    I am going to explain it in my head as oliver not being ready to murder an unarmed opponent despite his motivation to do so as well as possibly the unusual altitude slowing him down more than he thought it would.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicallypuzzled View Post
    except for the majority of the fight Ra's wasn't showing him self to be a better fighter than oliver usually is rather oliver for what ever reason took 2 steps back in his fighting abilities. particularly the first few strikes oliver made against the unarmed Ra's he was slow and clumsy in a way the arrow never is.

    I am going to explain it in my head as oliver not being ready to murder an unarmed opponent despite his motivation to do so as well as possibly the unusual altitude slowing him down more than he thought it would.
    I'm going to have to watch the fight again tonight as I didn't think that was the case at all. Granted he probably could have tried to just stab Ra's straight away but other then that I didn't see much wrong with the way Oliver fought.

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