View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Guilty of being GREAT!

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  1. #16
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    What a wonderful episode with some great humour which I often find lacking in Arrow. Loved Oliver's lines about his base being bigger and the dinosaur. Liked Felicity's "You just did" line (I do that all the the time). My favourite line though was Laurel's "We used to date" line to explain how she knew the Arrow.

    Was also nice to see Roy in his own little stunt scene.

    I don't like how someone is being accused of Sara's murder every couple of episodes. It's a bit tedious.

    Also, I must say except for the fourth episode of the season, all of the other episodes including this one seem very standalone, which I like but I do prefer it when they progress the overall story.

    The final thing, although Arrow isn't the only show guilty of this (pardon the pun), why do foreign people who can speak their home language, in this case Japanese, speak in English to each other alone? Is it that difficult to use subtitles?

    I have a feeling that I am going to fall completely in love with Cupid.

    Also from what Felicity said about the force of the arrows which penetrated Sara, are we to assume that the person who did it had Mirakuru or can the Lazarus Pit also give people super-human strength? Because that would severely narrow down the potential killers for Sara...
    Last edited by Quark; 11-13-2014 at 03:01 AM.

  2. #17
    >>>THE FLASH<<< super_j_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClarkyBoy14 View Post
    Then finally, the end where he revealed to Roy that it wasn't he who killed Sara, but that it was the officer from last season. Like that was supposed to make everything okay? Oh, don't worry, it was just Random Extra you killed. He doesn't matter.
    The fact that they brought the killing of the police office back showed they aren't just brushing it over and they way Roy reacted showed that it wasn't just some random extra to him. Ollie was willing to look past it because a) Roy wasn't in control over his own actions, and b) he wasn't just going to give up on him. I'm sure we'll see Roy dealing with his grief over killing the officer and it's not going away.

  3. #18
    >>>THE FLASH<<< super_j_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    - Something about Oliver being so touchy about Ted being a murderer just didn't feel right. Especially after his killing spree in season 1.
    - The flashbacks, like the Sara murder case, are also progressing very slowly. Pains me to say, but Arrow has really gone backwards in that area (remember in seasons past we had Oliver hanging out with Yao Fei, Shado, Sara or Slade).
    I think Ollie's concern is just Ted being around Laurel. Ollie came around on Ted at the end but still didn't like the idea of him training Laurel to keep her from harm.

    The problem with the flashbacks is that we're getting them about every other episode. Granted I don't mind seeing other people's flashbacks but yes I agree it keeps the Hong Kong story from progressing. I'm sure we'll get more from it though.

    This season is progressing a slowly but one thing I've noticed about Arrow is that it does a better job with the serialized stories than the "filler" stuff. Or at least I tend to enjoy the serialized stuff better.

  4. #19
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    GOOD:
    - Laurel was actually written well and i actually rooted for her character (which is a first)
    - more Ted Grant/Wildcat which was awesome.
    - less Felicity for a change
    - Cupid was AWESOME!! AND I FEEL I AM GOING TO LOVE HER CHARACTER!!
    - Roy was also written well and i actually felt for him when he said "don't loose faith in me" and it was cool how Oliver called Roy ARSENAL !
    -BOXING GLOVE ARROW!!!!

    BAD:
    - this was another horrible 'villain of the week', as these villains are weak in story and not menacing enough.
    - not necessarily a bad thing, but why does Tastsu hate Oliver in hong kong island flashbacks soo much!?
    - Oliver was a little annoying as he was trying to control Laurel's life and he stepped the boundaries in his own concern for Laurel. Laurel is a grown woman who can make her own decisions, if Oliver thinks it is wrong, he can talk to her, but it is ultimately her decision and he stepped over the line in today's episode IMO, but i guess he wants to steer laurel away from fighting as he was on a hellish island for 5 years and he doesn't want laurel to go down that road...

    I give this episode a solid 8/10. it just needs to work on the villain of the week and the slow progression/pace of the island scenes, but it was an awesome episode!

  5. #20
    John 3:16 ClarkyBoy14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by super_j_man View Post
    The fact that they brought the killing of the police office back showed they aren't just brushing it over and they way Roy reacted showed that it wasn't just some random extra to him. Ollie was willing to look past it because a) Roy wasn't in control over his own actions, and b) he wasn't just going to give up on him. I'm sure we'll see Roy dealing with his grief over killing the officer and it's not going away.
    Oh, I agree. I'm glad that Roy is feeling remorse over it (although this now makes the cliffhanger ending from last episode completely pointless and irrelevant), and I hope it leads to further development for him. I was just annoyed with Ollie's attitude, like, "Oh, don't worry Roy. It wasn't Sara you killed, it was Random Police Extra." Idk, I just didn't like how Ollie was written in this episode. I'm looking forward to next week's though; Cupid seems like a lot of fun.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    The no so good:
    - The Sara mystery. They just keep recycling it at the moment. No signs of progress apart from ruling out a couple of suspects. Also, the thing about the arrows not being shot by a bow feels like a retcon. You can hear the snap of the bowstring when Sara gets murdered.
    - Something about Oliver being so touchy about Ted being a murderer just didn't feel right. Especially after his killing spree in season 1.
    - Quentin again has very little screentime.
    - No Thea and Malcolm.
    - The flashbacks, like the Sara murder case, are also progressing very slowly. Pains me to say, but Arrow has really gone backwards in that area (remember in seasons past we had Oliver hanging out with Yao Fei, Shado, Sara or Slade).
    - Another weak villain of the week. That's one of the problems with this season. I get they're taking their time with Ra's, but they could at least find better occasional bad guys. The ones we've gotten until now (Vertigo, Komodo, the rogue ARGUS agent, Felicity's old bf and now Ted's old protege) just didn't com across as threatening enough. No surprise that the best episode of the season until now was one where Malcolm was the main antagonist...

    6/5/10. I was going with 6, but the boxing glove arrow earned it an extra half point.
    I gave a 6, and most of the things you pointed out in your "bad" section are the reason why. After a nice reveal last week that Roy might have killed Sara, this episode was kinda of a letdown in that department. I was hoping they would drag this a bit a longer, but just a bit of meditating and "Oh Roy you're not responsible". I also thought the place in the episode when he told Oliver and co. was a bit weird, like I think it should have waited til the end, but then the parallels between him and Oliver, and Ted and Isaac wouldn't have worked.

    However, the positives: Boxing glove arrow, Laurel's "We used to date" line, Oliver's "Mine is bigger" and "Isn't that a dinosaur?" line all had be laughing.

    The Hong Kong flashbacks really don't seem to have a whole lot of overall narrative direction right now, but I did like the way that this week's flashback events did ultimately end up tying into the present-day events with the use of the 'memory candle', even if I didn't like the outcome of that particular plot point.
    I find the flashbacks to be kinda boring and I'm not as engaged with them as I was in season 1-2. Oliver you have to this. Oliver do that. I felt that this one was just made up to use the memory candle in the present day.

    On another site someone poited out that Cupid appeared twice befor the end of the episode. I have to see the episode again.
    I missed her two cameos at the gym and walking behind Diggle's truck.
    I saw her outside the gym when Laurel was walking past. Although I didn't know it was her, only that they person seemed familiar. I did see someone walk behind Diggle's truck, but I didn't know it was her, I thought it was Laurel. However, when Laurel didn't come around to Diggle, I then wondered why they some random person walking by, and now I know. I don't know what to think of her yet, if anything, she reminds me of someone who would be Smallville rather than Arrow.

  7. #22
    Forum Regular Majin Wilson's Avatar
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    yeah seriously agreeing with everyone here, Ollie getting on Ted's case about one murder (compared to how many he did in Season 1?) was bloody hypocritical....
    also, what about Roy telling everyone he killed Sara? him and Felicity had no definitive proof....thought that part was really bad writing.

  8. #23
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    The red herring of Roy killing Sara was poorly done, even the last episode cliffhanger didn't have me believing it in the least. What really upset me was the continued red herring they inserted this episode with Felicity suddenly claiming that the angle of entry of the arrows didn't seem to have originated from a bow in order to support "Roy killed Sara"... WTF?! Why is that just now being announced and why have they been chasing an archer up until now if that's true?

    One of the highlights was Arrow not meddling with the police arresting Ted even though they were the reason he wasn't able to chase the now known criminal Isaac. Nice to see somebody not throwing their weight around just because they think they can. I do agree that Oliver is getting a bit annoying with his attempt to steer Laurel away from becoming a vigilante but tonight it seemed to fit if we disregard some of his previous objections (it's overkill considering that's all Laurel and Oliver talk about now when the two are together on screen).

    The timing of Roy's confession was a bit questionable but none the less perfect while showing his own sense of honor and truthfulness by disregarding Felicity's attempt to stop him. How often do we see Oliver, Laurel and Roy together all at the same time? Even if Arrow and Ted did most of the chasing for Isaac I felt this episode was a Roy centered episode and was thrilled that he actually took down Isaac, it made the "weak" villian of the week plausible.

    I loved Laurel contacting Felicity again when she and Ted were in trouble instead of playing the damsel in distress by contacting Oliver. It not only shows her ability to stand on her own but also gives her a valid reason on her own merits to join the others in the arrowcave.

    I liked Ted's backstory and role in the episode, I wouldn't mind seeing him put on his mask again as Wildcat but I think the best we can hope for there is when Laurel takes on the Black Canary role he might be her backup for 1-2 episodes.

    Looking back I enjoyed everyones role in this episode but Felicity's, not all of it was bad (I enjoyed her interaction with Roy figuring out IF he killed Sara and her helping Laurel) but her attempts to retcon the "who killed Sara" and hiding Roy's confession from Oliver and Laurel didn't sit well with me.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 11-13-2014 at 07:56 AM.

  9. #24
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    the fact they tried to fabricate roy throwing those arrows making it sound like a bow kind of irked me and the way they tried to make it seem like he may have killed sara wasnt done that great at all but i do love the angle of teacher and apprentice in this episode. I've been reading Red hood and the outlaws lately and im glad that the writers are taking the Arsenal path in the show. I have a feeling Sara's killer will be someone from Oli's past (flashback in china)but ill save that deduction for another thread.

    Pumped to see Cupid, Loved Amy Gumenick since she was in Supernatural After watching that 80 sec trailer im just patiently anticipating Captain Boomerang. I give this episode a 7/10 wasn't a fan of the Roy being the "potential killer part" but having the antagonist of this episode a former apprentice and link it with both Roy and Laurel with their respective teachers was a great plot.

  10. #25
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    I really liked this episode because for the first time (in 2+ seasons) for me, an episode felt like a story with Green Arrow and Black Canary.

    One of my favorite JLU episodes is "The Cat and The Canary" so it was fun to see another scenario where Oliver and [Dinah] Laurel Lance butt heads over Ted Grant. It was nice that just like in that story, the Black Canary stood up for Wildcat even if Green Arrow had reservations about him.

    Really loved Laurel's interactions with Oliver as the Arrow, too. The "we used to date" moment actually got a laugh out of me. I've been wanting to see something of a lighter side to Amell's Green Arrow and having Laurel sort of snark at him brought that out for me.

    Nice to see some back story for Ted Grant and loved the perfect use of the Boxing Glove Arrow in his fight with the Arrow!

    Heck, I even liked all the stuff with Roy trying to work out his memories and the moments between him and Oliver.

    Great episode! My favorite of the season so far. 9.

  11. #26
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    I am a bit disappointed we're not seeing Laurel in the courtroom, I hope they don't make this mistake with Matt Murdock. Seeing how long Law & Order's been running I think inserting vigilantes for cops could run at least close to the same.

  12. #27
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    Now that they brought in cupid will she be a villain or one of the good guys.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by acer15 View Post
    Now that they brought in cupid will she be a villain or one of the good guys.
    She is usually a villain she is obsessed with Ollie she usually kills other villains.

  14. #29
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    The boxing glove arrow was cool--a perfect very clever nod to us comic book nerds, lol. Oliver is often priggish and self-righteous, soapy qualities disagreeably on display in this ep. More 90210 / Dr. Phil speeches this time than I can stand--it's not so much what they say, it's the relative dearth of believable motivation. Every ep has at least one or two scenes in which someone says they were doing [insert annoying behavior here] only in order to "keep you safe" or "to protect you." At least Dig didn't get beaten up this time, so that's a plus.

    No matter who Roy killed, it was the drug so he should get a pass. I don't see why they'd even have to devote more than a couple of lines to it. It's not a reasonable motive for any major action, even on Roy's own part.

    I realize my opinions about eye-candy are inappropriate and somewhat obnoxious, but I was pleased to see Laurel looking a bit more fetching in her nice tight blue sweater, which showed off her abs to advantage :-) Somehow the costumers managed to make Felicity look a tad frumpy--the black skirt didn't flatter her figure--and OFC I missed Thea who is typically quite hot. The jury is still out on Cupid--in the comics she's a great example of provocative bad-girl sensuality, so I hope they progress in that direction as we go forward.
    Last edited by Jeff0253; 11-13-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  15. #30
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    This was a good episode, esp. in giving Ted a proper Arrow-universe backstory. This was sorely needed not only to boost his credibility, but Laurel's down the road. Mission accomplished on this front.

    They handled the twist to Roy's memory of Sara's death well, but I'd have to agree with what many have already said: the impression left with me is that, while Roy responsible for Sara's death would have been a grave matter for Ollie, Roy being responsible for no-name cop's death is somehow less so for him. We can say that Ollie wants to keep faith in Roy, wants to protect him ... but at the end of the day, Roy knows he killed someone. It will weigh on his conscience, even if it wasn't Sara. Roy's reactions throughout this was spot-on, Ollie's not so much.

    I also had a beef with Ollie's controlling reactions to Laurel training, being trained by Ted, trying to dissuade Ted from training her. Laurel called him on it, and rightly so: she is not on his team in the 'Team Arrow' sense. It's more than Ollie expressing an opinion as a friend or even as an ex. He came off as essentially trying to forbid all involved in proceeding.

    To use a hockey analogy, if Felicity and Diggle (and now, Roy) are on his first line of offence, the Lances aren't. Quentin may be on the third line or waiting on the bench, but Laurel is still in the minors. She hasn't been called up to the majors (yet). Therefore, she doesn't have to abide by whatever codes or rules Ollie wishes to impose on his "official" team members. And it was Ollie who chose not to train her (for some good reasons, granted), but it also means he does not have a say in how Laurel wishes to train, who she trains with. Ollie gave that up the moment he told her he wasn't going to train her. Ted's expression was priceless when he learned Laurel and the Arrow were an item.

    Considering Ollie's blood-soaked murderous S1, it's pretty rich to hear him hold a moral grudge over Ted committing one murder years ago, while doing vigilante work no less. While it was a bit quick for Ted to simply say he has felt remorse about it and we take it on face value, Ollie just seemed to be meddling unnecessarily this ep. -- just like a certain CW superhero cousin of his from Smallville.

    Ted's apprentice was also a bit heavy-handed in spoon-feeding Roy the whole 'he's only using you as a weapon' warning. Okay, he spelled out what we knew is going to be a theme this season: Ollie's confidence in Roy as a partner and the trust required to make it work

    The ep was a win the moment Ollie used a boxing glove arrow -- and it was pulled off credibly in the episode. Cupid next week may turn out to be a light-hearted filler ep to give us a break from the dramatics of past eps.

    8/10 - Boxing glove arrow bonus ensures that it can't dip below 8.

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