View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Guilty of being GREAT!

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  1. #31
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    i really liked the episode and the boxing glove arrow, blew me away. They managed to put this in without looking cheesy. Perhaps the Arrow can become Green Arrow one day ;-).
    Stephen Amell is already working on enough facial hair for a nice goatee.

  2. #32
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    10!

    Everything clicked for me. Even with a few flaws. I am not looking forward to Cupid though and she seemed cheesy sprinkled in this EP.

  3. #33
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    When I first started watching Arrow I said "first appearance of a boxing glove arrow and I am out of here". After the first year I realized that this Arrow was not that type of show at all, and I would watch the show as long as it was on the air.

    And then - last night - we see the boxing glove arrow, but not really. And it was done in a kind of funny way, with a bit of a wink to the fans. Needless to say, I am sticking around for the long haul.

    Oh, my rating for "Guilty"? A 10, all the way !!

  4. #34
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    I loved this episode. It had the same level of energy as the first few episodes of season 1. I like the fast pace of the story lines - people are complaining that the roy reveal of his dreams, and the quick resolution was too fast - but that is the aspect of the show that keeps me watching.
    My question is: is the writing on the wall for Diggle, and how much longer is he going to be on the show? Will Diggle's request to cut Roy lose create tension in the arrow cave?
    I loved how easy it was for Ollie to play with Tatsu's son. Will this come through again should he meet his own child down the line?

    overall, i am thoroughly enjoying Season 3!

  5. #35
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    Despite my decision to keep my distance as far as the forums are concerned, I inevitably find myself drawn back here... Oh, well.

    The HK flashbacks might be slow this season, but I would guess that they will speed up, and if they follow formula, we will be getting a "flashback episode" around episode 14-16, which will set up the final push for the flashbacks in Season 3.

    Someone mentioned Felicity 'forcing the evidence' to fit Roy's dream. What she actually says, paraphrased, is that "the arrows were not fired from a normal bow, or from an archer of average height." Meaning the force of the arrows came from a more complex bow than normal, and that the archer was shorter than average, such as Roy... or Thea, which fits with the 'unscrambled voice' that's been floating around...

    I loved the banter in this episode. "Mine's bigger." "We used to date." And then Ted's (paraphrasing here), "Robin Hood didn't want me to train you."

    And, like everyone else, loved the nod to comics fans with the boxing glove arrow.

    Also, I am beginning to enjoy Laurel a bit more, whereas Dig is beginning to grate on me. He would've done what Ted did with his apprentice to Roy if he were team leader instead of Oliver. Laurel, on the other hand, is neither on Oliver's team nor willing to sit quietly on the sidelines again. She's finally becoming this strong female character that can kick ass and stand toe-to-toe with the Arrow. She's got the attitude, and we know she'll have the look, but my guess is she will try her hand at vigilantism again before she's ready, which is what the producers have all but said.

    Now, the one thing I am getting seriously tired of, and I hope Oliver at some point realizes this, is that Quentin still doesn't know. This is my one point of contention with Laurel at the moment. She was all hurt over Sara keeping her being alive a secret last year, and now she's keeping Sara's death from her father. I understand the reasoning, in a way, but the fact is the longer Laurel keeps it, the more likely Quentin will have a much more adverse reaction.

    All in all, I give the episode a ten for humor, fan nods, giving Roy his Arsenal identity, and keeping the reaction to Sara's death accurate. What do I mean by that? If someone you care about is murdered, it stays with you. In a television show, they have to portray that by the issue being brought up since we can't get in the heads of the characters. Is it a bit irritating? Probably, but if they didn't, you know people would have complaints about the sociopathic nature of the characters for ignoring Sara's death now the trail has run cold.

    Only detractions for me in this episode is the lack of Thea and Malcolm, even if all they did was training. I like those two... but I'm sure they'll have a prominent role in the coming episodes....

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Someone mentioned Felicity 'forcing the evidence' to fit Roy's dream. What she actually says, paraphrased, is that "the arrows were not fired from a normal bow, or from an archer of average height." Meaning the force of the arrows came from a more complex bow than normal, and that the archer was shorter than average, such as Roy... or Thea, which fits with the 'unscrambled voice' that's been floating around...

    All in all, I give the episode a ten for humor, fan nods, giving Roy his Arsenal identity, and keeping the reaction to Sara's death accurate. What do I mean by that? If someone you care about is murdered, it stays with you. In a television show, they have to portray that by the issue being brought up since we can't get in the heads of the characters. Is it a bit irritating? Probably, but if they didn't, you know people would have complaints about the sociopathic nature of the characters for ignoring Sara's death now the trail has run cold.
    My issue is if the information about a different style of bow and the archer's height is so important why wasn't it mentioned before the trail for Sara's murderer got cold? A bow is as telling about an archer as is the choice of arrowshaft and fletching. I don't need the show to tell me there are differences in the performance of differing bows, I don't need that level of reality but if you're going to bring it in then be consistant about it. We haven't been shown any such difference in the show yet aside from traditional bows and compound bows as visual differences and a very short side note comment from Barry about Oliver's shafts when he went against Solomon Grundy, nothing about performance differences as is being alluded to now. We've seen Oliver, Yao Fei, Malcolm, Shado, Roy, Nyssa, random LoA members, Komodo, Cupid and even Oliver's makeshift hotel bows without mention of any differences in performance. Why wasn't the search right after Sara's death not mentioned as looking for an archer with a very unique bow and shorter than average? Instead we see Team Arrow chasing any archer they can think of regardless of what type of bow they use or how tall they are (Komodo, Malcolm and even suspecting Ra's Al Ghul who all seem to be roughly Oliver's size) the only elimination was if they were in the LoA or not. Now where it's convenient to further the red herring of Roy having killed Sara it's suddenly brought up? Felicity can tell if an arrow was fired from a "standard" bow or a "unique" bow but can't tell the difference between an arrow fired and one thrown? She'll do a complicated DNA test that's inconclusive but what about partial fingerprints from the "thrown" arrowshafts? I don't buy it nor do I think it was good script writing. I bought Roy believing he killed Sara but not that everyone else believed it.

    I agree with continually bringing up Sara's death, it shows just how much of an impact that event had on all the characters. I wouldn't mind in the least if they brought 2-3 more red herrings in before revealing who really killed Sara, just make it more believable then this farse with Roy.

    BTW: Stephen Amell mentioned in an interview after the airing of "Guilty" that anyone thinking Thea would become "evil" is totally wrong and blew off the supposed evidence of a shorter archer with "Aw, come on.".
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 11-15-2014 at 05:42 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    The red herring of Roy killing Sara was poorly done, even the last episode cliffhanger didn't have me believing it in the least. What really upset me was the continued red herring they inserted this episode with Felicity suddenly claiming that the angle of entry of the arrows didn't seem to have originated from a bow in order to support "Roy killed Sara"... WTF?! Why is that just now being announced and why have they been chasing an archer up until now if that's true?
    The way I was taking this bit is that Felicity needs to perfect her iAutopsy software. Wasn't this the first time she's tried using it or something? Now i have to go back and rewatch. Anyway, she seem to put a lot of faith in the projection of Saras body. And she is not some kind of Dr. that would have a clue how to do an autopsy anyway. Basically, I felt this was the show beginning to show a boundary for Felicity that she doesn't know everything and can't do everything either. In the Arrow Cave, there are no people with actual medical experience except maybe Diggle and some battlefield stuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    Looking back I enjoyed everyones role in this episode but Felicity's, not all of it was bad (I enjoyed her interaction with Roy figuring out IF he killed Sara and her helping Laurel) but her attempts to retcon the "who killed Sara" and hiding Roy's confession from Oliver and Laurel didn't sit well with me.
    I took this part as a reminder of how Felicity was meddling with Moira's secret in a previous season. She has these moments where she really gets in the middle of stuff that isn't her business. She doesn't do it all the time, but it is not unheard of. In this case, I think that she, like Ollie, know that Roy is basically a decent guy who is honorable, and that wasn't him, even though it was his body that killed that cop. Not sure if I can offer any legal escapes for him, but to me it is showing that the Arrow team is not going to turn Roy away unless it is absolutely forced on them. Is it possible that they are doing this so that they can indicate to us that they are not going to follow some comic storyline where Ollie kicks out Roy and Roy becomes a crack head? ( i haven't actually read it, but infer this is what happened from posts lol). Because that would be a disaster, imo, after we went thru all the drug/alcohol issues with Laurel last season. So maybe this was their way of getting beyond that issue and moving forward.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    They handled the twist to Roy's memory of Sara's death well, but I'd have to agree with what many have already said: the impression left with me is that, while Roy responsible for Sara's death would have been a grave matter for Ollie, Roy being responsible for no-name cop's death is somehow less so for him. We can say that Ollie wants to keep faith in Roy, wants to protect him ... but at the end of the day, Roy knows he killed someone. It will weigh on his conscience, even if it wasn't Sara. Roy's reactions throughout this was spot-on, Ollie's not so much.

    I also had a beef with Ollie's controlling reactions to Laurel training, being trained by Ted, trying to dissuade Ted from training her. Laurel called him on it, and rightly so: she is not on his team in the 'Team Arrow' sense. It's more than Ollie expressing an opinion as a friend or even as an ex. He came off as essentially trying to forbid all involved in proceeding.
    I think all of Ollie's weirdness here was about Laurel.

    Laurel was believable in shock when Roy announced he killed Sara. And I wasn't certain what Ollie was going to do. But since the unknown cop wasn't part of Laurels grief over Sara, then of course it wasn't as important to him. Ollie has mentioned before about watching Laurel deal with Sara's death. So I think that in Ollies opinion, there should be a larger concern placed over Sara than the unknown cop, in that Sara has a huge hold on Laurel. There were many other's we don't know of that were killed during the mirakuru war, and the Arrow team, including Roy, did a LOT to prevent even more destruction than happened.

    As for Ollie and Ted, this seems like straight up jealousy on Ollies part. Here is a competent guy helping Laurel out, where was Ollie always sends her away and turns her down. Jealous people do very stupid things for very stupid reasons because they won't be honest about what their problem really is. Maybe Ollie thinks he is going to lose Laurel to Ted?
    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post

    Considering Ollie's blood-soaked murderous S1, it's pretty rich to hear him hold a moral grudge over Ted committing one murder years ago, while doing vigilante work no less. While it was a bit quick for Ted to simply say he has felt remorse about it and we take it on face value, Ollie just seemed to be meddling unnecessarily this ep. -- just like a certain CW superhero cousin of his from Smallville.
    This is the exact point that made me realize that Ollie is jealous. I could be wrong, but this was so irrational of Ollie that I can think of no other explanation. Ollie has put down so many people, and getting bent out of shape over Ted and 1 murder. I think this was all a jealous act to try and put some wedge between Laurel and Ted.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caught_In_The_Sun View Post
    10!

    Everything clicked for me. Even with a few flaws. I am not looking forward to Cupid though and she seemed cheesy sprinkled in this EP.


    Yes, we had a boxing glove (which was actually kind of cool ) and now a cupid. Next week Arrow and Cupid take on the heartless Mayor McCheese and Captain Corn Dog.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotteddog View Post
    When I first started watching Arrow I said "first appearance of a boxing glove arrow and I am out of here". After the first year I realized that this Arrow was not that type of show at all, and I would watch the show as long as it was on the air.

    And then - last night - we see the boxing glove arrow, but not really. And it was done in a kind of funny way, with a bit of a wink to the fans. Needless to say, I am sticking around for the long haul.

    Oh, my rating for "Guilty"? A 10, all the way !!
    Me too, i thought a boxing glove arrow would be too ridiculous but, they pulled it off here in a way that was funny and as long as we dont see Ollie walking around with a quiver full of boxing gloves, i'm ok with it

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Despite my decision to keep my distance as far as the forums are concerned, I inevitably find myself drawn back here... Oh, well.
    Not sure why you would stay away from the forums, but I really enjoy your posts.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    My issue is if the information about a different style of bow and the archer's height is so important why wasn't it mentioned before the trail for Sara's murderer got cold? A bow is as telling about an archer as is the choice of arrowshaft and fletching. I don't need the show to tell me there are differences in the performance of differing bows, I don't need that level of reality but if you're going to bring it in then be consistant about it. We haven't been shown any such difference in the show yet aside from traditional bows and compound bows as visual differences and a very short side note comment from Barry about Oliver's shafts when he went against Solomon Grundy, nothing about performance differences as is being alluded to now. We've seen Oliver, Yao Fei, Malcolm, Shado, Roy, Nyssa, random LoA members, Komodo, Cupid and even Oliver's makeshift hotel bows without mention of any differences in performance. Why wasn't the search right after Sara's death not mentioned as looking for an archer with a very unique bow and shorter than average? Instead we see Team Arrow chasing any archer they can think of regardless of what type of bow they use or how tall they are (Komodo, Malcolm and even suspecting Ra's Al Ghul who all seem to be roughly Oliver's size) the only elimination was if they were in the LoA or not. Now where it's convenient to further the red herring of Roy having killed Sara it's suddenly brought up? Felicity can tell if an arrow was fired from a "standard" bow or a "unique" bow but can't tell the difference between an arrow fired and one thrown? She'll do a complicated DNA test that's inconclusive but what about partial fingerprints from the "thrown" arrowshafts? I don't buy it nor do I think it was good script writing. I bought Roy believing he killed Sara but not that everyone else believed it.

    I agree with continually bringing up Sara's death, it shows just how much of an impact that event had on all the characters. I wouldn't mind in the least if they brought 2-3 more red herrings in before revealing who really killed Sara, just make it more believable then this farse with Roy.

    BTW: Stephen Amell mentioned in an interview after the airing of "Guilty" that anyone thinking Thea would become "evil" is totally wrong and blew off the supposed evidence of a shorter archer with "Aw, come on.".
    Yeah, they are dropping clues but it's haphazardly done. But if they are now going back to the type of arrow and that sort of thing, I noted that myself when the event actually happened. And I felt that they weren't actually arrows, but could have been cross bow bolts and even thought it might be Helena. But a rewatch showed that they were probably arrows, so I dropped that theory. Well, not the theory that it could be Helena, but the theory that it was Helena using a cross bow.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightHawk777 View Post
    Laurel was believable in shock when Roy announced he killed Sara. And I wasn't certain what Ollie was going to do. But since the unknown cop wasn't part of Laurels grief over Sara, then of course it wasn't as important to him. Ollie has mentioned before about watching Laurel deal with Sara's death. So I think that in Ollies opinion, there should be a larger concern placed over Sara than the unknown cop, in that Sara has a huge hold on Laurel. There were many other's we don't know of that were killed during the mirakuru war, and the Arrow team, including Roy, did a LOT to prevent even more destruction than happened.

    As for Ollie and Ted, this seems like straight up jealousy on Ollies part. Here is a competent guy helping Laurel out, where was Ollie always sends her away and turns her down. Jealous people do very stupid things for very stupid reasons because they won't be honest about what their problem really is. Maybe Ollie thinks he is going to lose Laurel to Ted?


    This is the exact point that made me realize that Ollie is jealous. I could be wrong, but this was so irrational of Ollie that I can think of no other explanation. Ollie has put down so many people, and getting bent out of shape over Ted and 1 murder. I think this was all a jealous act to try and put some wedge between Laurel and Ted.
    I agree that Laurel's reaction to Roy's confession was believable considering the much closer tie she had with Sara (let's not forget Laurel probably knows nothing about Roy killing the cop) but while everyone was willing to believe Roy actually killed Sara (which I thought was stupid from minute "evidence" that actually said nothing to incriminate Roy) it was only Diggle that took a different stance between Roy killing a cop and him killing Sara. Nobody was certain what they should do with Roy, only Diggle came out and said they can't have two different standards which is exactly what Diggle was showing by making that statement. Oliver stood by Roy when Diggle said he should cut him loose by not answering and again after Roy took Isaac down so if anyone didn't believe Roy killed Sara it was Oliver.

    As for Oliver and Ted, I also believe his relationship with Laurel was causing Oliver to overreact. Even when Ted was cleared of any murders Oliver was still attacking Ted to get him away from Laurel, Oliver using the murder venue was a cheap shot he thought would be effective that totally backfired. It's nothing new for Oliver telling people what they should do, "Stop partying Thea", "You should've punished me when I did that mom", "I choose who to tell my secret identity to Felicity". Choose any episode from any season and I'm sure somewhere in there Oliver's telling somebody what to do that's really none of his business or that he can't fully control.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 11-15-2014 at 09:29 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowaddict22 View Post
    My question is: is the writing on the wall for Diggle, and how much longer is he going to be on the show? Will Diggle's request to cut Roy lose create tension in the arrow cave?!
    I too worry about Dig. He keeps getting beat up. I'd hate to see him go for any number of reasons; he's a solid literary voice for one thing.

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