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  • 10 - Not a secret that this was great!

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  • 9

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  • 8

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    3 8.33%
  • 6

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  • 5

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  • 1 - Everyone involved should get hit with a virus.

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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak?"

    What did you think of tonight's show?

  2. #2
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    I thought it was great loved all the references to Death (Felicity's look in the flashbacks), Starro (On Felicity's boyfriends shirt), and Brother Eye.

  3. #3
    New In Town Alchemix's Avatar
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    I thought they were going a bit to much with the Lisbeth Salander look for Felicity, but else a solid episode.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular Majin Wilson's Avatar
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    loved the Felicity/Donna scenes!

  5. #5
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    I thought this episode was well-done, especially since they had to tell the story in 42-45 minutes. I love how they show all the training everyone is doing, then have Thea asking Malcolm, "What do normal people do in the morning?" before switching over to Felicity. Though Felicity is the most normal of the team, I'd still say she's less-normal than the average citizen....

    The relationship between Felicity and her mom was rather interesting, and the allusions to her father suggest that whoever it is is quite brilliant (which narrows the list of possible heroes/villains from the DC universe, I'd say), and that Donna thinks of Felicity as more her father's daughter than her mother's, though that may change moving forward.

    The writers continue to pull interesting twists out of their hat. I wondered about if Felicity's ex had faked his death then figured, "Nah, how could he do that without help from a major player?" Then of course the NSA card is put itno play and I'm like, "Ah." Oh, and who else just loved that Felicity disarmed and decked her ex?

    Malcolm wasn't looking too happy about Thea and Oliver moving into that apartment together. I have a sudden suspicion that we might actually get an awkward 'Thanksgiving dinner with the family' episode.... which is something I've been thinking would be an interesting dynamic to play out since it was revealed that Malcolm was Thea's father.

    Now, as for Roy and his dream/nightmare.... on the one hand, I'd like to think this is because he is fighting repressed memories of killing those cops last year. But on the other, how could he have known what Sara said to her killer? Now, I don't think he *threw* the arrows into her. But I do think he is suffering some side affects of the Mirakuru that have yet to be explored.... which begs the question as to whether Slade is also suffering such effects.... because if the Mirakuru isn't completely wiped out, but merely reduced dramatically, than there may still be a lingering possibility of Slade escaping Lian Yu once more....

    Also, Roy being the killer is a possibility because Sara would trust Roy and be shocked/betrayed by him killing her.

    Now, the real question is, is this a side effect of the Mirakuru? Or is something else at play here, something we don't know about yet?

  6. #6
    My review (cross-posted):
    I liked "Goth" Felicity and the existential crisis that she was faced with after realizing that the virus she created was the same one being used for nefarious purposes. However, I don't think the writers did enough to justify intertwining that particular storyline with the other major Felicity-centric story in the episode, which was of course her interactions with her mother. The scenes between the two characters felt kind of superfluous and unnecessary (you could've found any number of different ways to force Felicity into having to help her ex-boyfriend carry out his plan), and even the resolution of that particular arc didn't really feel like it was worth the trouble of bringing the character of Donna into the story.

    I've always enjoyed the Oliver/Thea relationship, even when it's been confrontational or tense, and so it's nice to see them reconnecting a little bit, even if it's inevitable that things are going to get hairy if/when the various secrets that they're both keeping are brought out into the open. Thea's new loft is freaking nice, though, and I hope Oliver does in fact take her up on her offer of room and board.

    Going back to Felicity's primary story arc this week, I was reminded very much of the Batman: The Animated Series episode "Heart of Steel" vis a vis the whole "Brother Eye" thing with her ex-boyfriend deciding to go on a hacking robbery spree, although I do wish we'd gotten a little bit more explanation as to why he was doing what he was doing. It was neat to see her stand up to him and be the one to ultimately resolve the situation, though.

    I'm not sure where they're going with this whole "Roy killed Sara" thing, but, unlike some other people, I don't think it's anything other than what it appears to be, which means that they've got a really fine line to walk between making it work and work believably and it coming across as being 'shocking for shock's sake'. I'm definitely intrigued by it, though, and will be tuning in next week to see what happens and how they further this particular plot.

    Even if it ended up just making the situation worse, I liked Laurel telling that police officer to send in a 'riot squad', especially since it led directly to the scene between her and her dad where he briefly chastises her before going straight into 'dad mode'. Both Katie and Paul played the father-daughter aspects of the scene perfectly, and I liked that she later took his advice about opening up to someone and explained the source of all of her anger to Ted Grant.

    I like Brandon Routh as an actor, but he's being wasted right now as Ray Palmer because the character really doesn't seem to have much purpose story-wise. Hopefully that will be changing in the future (preferably sooner rather than later).

    I know this episode was originally titled "Oracle", and while "The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak" is a bit too long, it's still better than the original title because it fits the thematic and narrative elements of the episode's primary story arc(s) much better.

    Ratings-wise, I'm going to give this a solid 9. I had some issues with it, but, in the end, the positives outnumber the negatives, which is always a good thing.

  7. #7
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemix View Post
    I thought they were going a bit to much with the Lisbeth Salander look for Felicity, but else a solid episode.
    They weren't going for a Lisbeth Salander look it was more a reference to Neil Gaimen's Sandman because Felicity was dressed like Death.

  8. #8
    Personally, Felicity's "Goth" look reminded me more of "Dark Willow" than anything else.

  9. #9
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Not too thrilled with this episode. But then again, I was never interested in Felicity's origins, her mother or an episode devoted entirely on her.

    - The good: Basically the opening training sequences, Ray Palmer (Routh just hast a presence about him), Diggle with his baby and the cliffhanger.

    - The bad: Everything else. But especially the parts about who Felicity was 5 years ago an how at the drop of a hat she turned into the socially awkward we saw in the premiere. It all felt too contrived. If you can't figure out a plausible origin story, just don't do it at all.

    Obviously the major talking point coming out of this episode is Roy's dream. This is one of those instances where the show can still surprise you when you least expect it. Is he really the killer or it is some kind of nightmare? And if he killed Sara, is the Mirakuru still in him? Hopefully we'll find out in the weeks to come. It certainly will be an interesting twist if he's the killer. Especially when you consider how they're lining him up to be Red Arrow/Arsenal. Unless they're just trying to buy time with this angle until they reveal the real killer.

    4/10. Hopefully that's the last episode of this kind we get.
    Last edited by costas22; 11-06-2014 at 01:51 AM.

  10. #10
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    Ray's stalking levels have increased yet again. Showing up unannounced at your female employees's door first thing in the morning is just creepy. I stand by the notion that making him into a male mirror image of Felicity just doesn't produce the same effect.

    I see a lot of potential in the Thea/Malcolm plotline and Roy's dream at the end was a nice twist. Laurel's scenes in this episode felt unnecessarily distracting.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Not too thrilled with this episode. But then again, I was never interested in Felicity's origins, her mother or an episode devoted entirely on her.

    - The good: Basically the opening training sequences, Ray Palmer (Routh just hast a presence about him), Diggle with his baby and the cliffhanger.

    - The bad: Everything else. But especially the parts about who Felicity was 5 years ago an how at the drop of a hat she turned into the socially awkward we saw in the premiere. It all felt too contrived. If you can't figure out a plausible origin story, just don't do it at all.

    Obviously the major talking point coming out of this episode is Roy's dream. This is one of those instances where the show can still surprise you when you least expect it. Is he really the killer or it is some kind of nightmare? And if he killed Sara, is the Mirakuru still in him? Hopefully we'll find out in the weeks to come. It certainly will be an interesting twist if he's the killer. Especially when you consider how they're lining him up to be Red Arrow/Arsenal. Unless they're just trying to buy time with this angle until they reveal the real killer.

    4/10. Hopefully that's the last episode of this kind we get.
    I haven't watched this ep yet, but the reception (outside of the hardcore Felicity/Olicity fandom, of course!) of this ep has not been very positive. It's a pity that when Felicity finally gets some independent story material/backstory it is not very well executed. I've even heard criticism from fans who do like her, but who were disappointed by the way this ep was written.

  12. #12
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I haven't watched this ep yet, but the reception (outside of the hardcore Felicity/Olicity fandom, of course!) of this ep has not been very positive. It's a pity that when Felicity finally gets some independent story material/backstory it is not very well executed. I've even heard criticism from fans who do like her, but who were disappointed by the way this ep was written.
    Not too familar with online fandom outside this place, but it wouldn't surprise me. I can only speak for myself. I just didn't like it. Diggle also had his own episode last season, but it was much better executed. His flashback story was perfectly aligned with who the character is, the Suicide Squad was featured prominently in the episode and we also had advancement in regards to the season's main plots. Last night's episode was 99% filler, with mostly weak acting and writing and with very few connections to the season's main arcs. It felt like a wish fulfillment to a specific fanbase more than anything...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Not too familar with online fandom outside this place, but it wouldn't surprise me. I can only speak for myself. I just didn't like it. Diggle also had his own episode last season, but it was much better executed. His flashback story was perfectly aligned with who the character is, the Suicide Squad was featured prominently in the episode and we also had advancement in regards to the season's main plots. Last night's episode was 99% filler, with mostly weak acting and writing and with very few connections to the season's main arcs. It felt like a wish fulfillment to a specific fanbase more than anything...
    I think your last sentence sums up the reception of this episode very well! On forums with a heavy presence of Felicity/Olicity fans it was very well received, but on forums with a more diversified and general fandom it is generally regarded as one of the weaker "Arrow" episodes. I think this shows that letting fan favourite/a character with a very vocal and devoted fandom get the focus of attention doesn't always translate into good television. I believe that Felicity needed an ep which would give her some backstory and character development, but merely putting Felicity in the focus doesn't make an episode great. You need good writing and good acting for that, and that is what was a bit lacking in this ep, at least according to some fans.

    I have to admit that the common attitude that Felicity is the greatest thing about the show (and more or less its savior) while other (female) characters are more or less dispensible) has been bothering me for a while, especially since the TPTB/promo department seems to have latched onto this fanon idea as well. I mean, how much of the pre-season promotion was focused on Felicity/Olicity, as if that is the essence of the show and the reason why most people watch? It's as if the sentiments of the most vocal fanbase is taken to be representative of the viewership as a whole, who might watch for many other reasons why have nothing to do with Felicity or Olicity. I don't know how much it has affected the actual writing, but even if it hasn't, the constant hyping and the concomitant devaluation of the other female characters doesn't bode well for the show IMHO. Thea is starting an interesting journey, and yet it feels that both Thea and Willa have been somewhat sidelined and even neglected, which is a pity since Willa IMHO is a more accomplished actress than EBR. Anyway, I guess I should stop whining and actually try to watch this ep with an open mind...
    Last edited by evaba; 11-06-2014 at 06:07 AM.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Arrowaddict22's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the show, if not for anything else, but for expanding the Arrow storyline. i would get tired of the series if it was all about Oliver and "grrrr, I need to find some baddies to shoot." The characters have lives outside of the arrow cave, which i enjoy seeing. The thing that jarred me was how quick the writrers were off the bat showing how emotional felicity is about her mother. i hope we get to see more of why there is so much anger.
    I loved seeing ray, and his total inability to understand social boundaries.
    And Cooper Seldon (any refrence to Sheldon Cooper who constantly waers a Green Arrow T-Shirt and loves the Flash)?

    i would like to think Roys nightmare was just that - a nightmare. oftemn nightmares are not a replay of concious happenings, but rather an expression of unconscious thoughts. maybe he is seriously worried that he killed Sara?

  15. #15
    Forum Whiz Buziel0809's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Not too thrilled with this episode. But then again, I was never interested in Felicity's origins, her mother or an episode devoted entirely on her.
    .......
    - The bad: Everything else. But especially the parts about who Felicity was 5 years ago an how at the drop of a hat she turned into the socially awkward we saw in the premiere. It all felt too contrived. If you can't figure out a plausible origin story, just don't do it at all.

    4/10. Hopefully that's the last episode of this kind we get.
    This is exactly how I felt about his episode. It's not that I don't care about Felicity and she's a good character with funny lines, but her backstory wasn't that interesting even with the goth look (which by the way just seem so out of character for her IMO). The scenes with mother were .... meh, and too predictable. Although I do want to know who her father is. Also the episode didn't flow very well between scenes, Laurel again trying to be BA when she's not and it makes her look bad.

    On the other hand, I did like the conversations between Oliver and Thea. I'm glad she eventually came out and told him where the money was coming from and asking him to move in with her. However, Malcolm appeared like he did not like them hanging out. I got the impression that he wants Thea only to himself and Oliver may be one to disrupt any plans he has with her. I guess we'll see how that plays out.

    The ending....wow! I practically yelled at my television, I was so shocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowaddict22 View Post
    i would like to think Roys nightmare was just that - a nightmare. oftemn nightmares are not a replay of concious happenings, but rather an expression of unconscious thoughts. maybe he is seriously worried that he killed Sara?
    But how does his thoughts/nightmares know what Sara said right before he shot her? To me, it seems pretty legitimate that he may be responsible. The question is he under someone's control? That voice sounded like Slade's to me.

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