View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Like Thea, it kicked @$$

    5 20.83%
  • 9

    6 25.00%
  • 8

    9 37.50%
  • 7

    3 12.50%
  • 6

    1 4.17%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Needs more training from Wildcat

    0 0%
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  1. #16
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    I totally agree. And I do not object to her losing the fight. I simply object to her looking like a 6-year-old left handed beginner karate student in doing so. (yes, my son is left handed and took karate for several years, starting at age 6... so I know how those look when they start.)

  2. #17
    ^ Hmm. To each their own, I guess. I personally thought the scene was effective for what it was intended to.

  3. #18
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    The writers have remained true to form with their Villian of the Week, Manhunter was once again lacking. Laurel's transition to Black Canary is going much to fast for my taste and even Thea's training is moving a bit to quickly, somebody mentioned from episode 2 a quote from Oliver to Laurel "Sara was trained by some of the greatest human killers in history, Lacroix put her down. So what do you think he's going to do to you?" Sara was gone 5 years during which she was trained by the LoA among others and suddenly Thea's able to hold her own as costumed crusader after 5 months with Malcolm or even worse, Laurel's going to kick some major butt after a few months of training with a boxer? Granted we're talking about Wildcat but he doesn't have a background in Arrow to put him anywhere near Oliver or Malcolm as a masked hero/villian. The biggest fail for me was Felicity though, I like the character and it was probably to be humorous but when she multi-tasks in front of Ray Palmer allowing him to see her doing the job of an investigator was just so wrong. It was as if she completely forgot that working with Arrow is something she's supposed to keep secret. I did enjoy Laurel asking Felicity for help though, that's how I want to see Laurel gain her place in the Arrowcave.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 10-23-2014 at 04:09 PM.

  4. #19
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    Episode 3 was pretty good my favorite so far. Inserting Malcolm is always a good thing for this Series because even though Deathstroke was awesome Malcolm is the best Arrow villain.

    Thea certainly came a long in just 5 months lol I guess she's just a natural. And I do hope she realizes yes Ollie lied to her but she's trusting a guy that killed thousands of people. And I wonder if Ra's will be upset that Malcolm taught someone who isn't part of the League?


    Laurel arc is getting interesting I like she had 0 success on her first try and I like that she tried to get Ollie to train before going to Ted and it's a realistic reason why Ollie would decline to teach her. My biggest complaint is Ted isn't a old guy now that he's young you just know him Laurel will romantic feelings which is lame.


    I liked that Felicity at the end set up her guest role for the next Flash episode it reminded me of old school comics. And didn't understand the significance with Roy Palmer at the end there with all those blueprints?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    The writers have remained true to form with their Villian of the Week, Manhunter was once again lacking. Laurel's transition to Black Canary is going much to fast for my taste and even Thea's training is moving a bit to quickly, somebody mentioned from episode 2 a quote from Oliver to Laurel "Sara was trained by some of the greatest human killers in history, Lacroix put her down. So what do you think he's going to do to you?" Sara was gone 5 years during which she was trained by the LoA among others and suddenly Thea's able to hold her own as costumed crusader after 5 months with Malcolm or even worse, Laurel's going to kick some major butt after a few months of training with a boxer? Granted we're talking about Wildcat but he doesn't have a background in Arrow to put him anywhere near Oliver or Malcolm as a masked hero/villian. The biggest fail for me was Felicity though, I like the character and it was probably to be humorous but when she multi-tasks in front of Ray Palmer allowing him to see her doing the job of an investigator was just so wrong. It was as if she completely forgot that working with Arrow is something she's supposed to keep secret. I did enjoy Laurel asking Felicity for help though, that's how I want to see Laurel gain her place in the Arrowcave.
    She didn't really hold her own against Malcolm, she asked if Malcolm let her win and it was pretty clear that Malcolm did (can't remember if he actually said yes or it was purely implied).

  6. #21
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    I kinda like where Laurel's storyline is going. I'm not sure how anyone can say it's moving too fast when she hasn't even started the training process yet. In this episode, she's only making the decision to commit herself to be a fighter. It's not like they've already made her Black Canary. Granted, if she comes in next episode and starts taking on the Canary role, then I'll accuse the writers of progressing her character too quickly. Laurel has a long way to go and she got a start in this episode.....not a good start but just a start.

    I also like the Thea stuff. We don't know the extent of what she can do. She even said herself that she felt Malcolm let her win. She's not international assassin or anything.........yet and I'm actually glad that she was shown to have a personal side that still cares for her brother. I felt like Roy should have fought harder for Thea. He seemed to give up too easily when she said she wasn't coming home. If he really cared for her, he should have at least tried to argue.

    It felt very convenient for the writers to put the Mark Shaw/Manhunter plot in this episode. It just so happened that Lyla needed Diggle to do her a favor in Corto Maltese which is where he was headed with Oliver anyway? It would have come off better if they would have "randomly" ran into Mark Shaw when they were in Corto Maltese. But just a minor nitpick there.

    Felicity was great this episode but Ray Palmer still just comes off as weird. We need more from him than just being Felicity's boss/stalker.

    Also we really didn't get much from Ted Grant this episode. It's odd that they would introduce a character that is going to have major interaction with another already established character a not give us a whole lot on him.

    Once again, great episode and I give it a 9/10!

  7. #22
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    This was clearly a Thea-centric episode, and it was expected that she would be a focus since we've all been wondering what's she's been up to since she went off with Merlyn. Overall I liked what was essentially the launch of Thea's S3 story arc and the subtle hints that the line between her being a Queen and being a Merlyn is blurred.

    I'm not as concerned that either Laurel or Thea aren't up to speed on being Ollie or even Roy-level in the vigilante hero department -- because I'm not expecting them to be at this point. I think Laurel's failed experiment to dive into the street-fighting business now without proper preparation was their way of showing that she's not going to go blindly into it. She took a beating and, lesson learned, now she is going to prepare eg. take her time with it. I don't even expect her to "become" Black Canary this season. At all. Hers is a slow-burn journey. I'd go back to what I've said before: if Ollie himself is only 2+ years into his (alleged) five-year journey to becoming the Green Arrow of legend, then why would Laurel be expected to achieve her destiny sooner than him? I actually liked how they handled her story arc so far this season, it seems to be more focused.

    Ollie's reaction to it was a bit confusing. Okay, he's concerned how Quentin and his health will take the news of Laurel taking up the vigilante cause; she was also concerned how her dad might take news of Sara's death. But, Ollie thinks Sara wouldn't go along with it -- despite the fact the jacket hand-off last season was all but giving her consent for taking up the fight for justice. You just know he's not on board with her plans to protect her

    I know some viewers think Sara is "already" BC -- but while she may have looked the part and had the combat skills, her moral compass was still skewered and not even near the level we'd expect for a future Justice Leaguer, one who Superman or Batman could trust. This is the angle people seem to forget re: BC. Sara may have been a proto-"Canary" in the series, but as far as I'm concerned, the BC I expect to see (the one who is worthy enough to stand side by side with the likes of Superman, Batman, etc.) hasn't showed up on the show yet. Nor do I expect her to until later seasons.

    Roy noticed Thea's much shorter hair. So did I. I dig it.Yeah, she was awesome this ep.

    Diggle was great in this ep. (his tackle while the Jeep was moving FTW), despite being part of the B subplot: the whole ARGUS adventure in Corto Maltese. It was the secondary plot in the ep. and it showed. I liked also that Ollie was taking a page from the Batman I've known (in the comics anyway): he's not crazy about using a gun, but when needed, he can use one and is a pretty good shot. Ray and Felicity's scenes were also just setting the stage for the future and it was funny to see Felicity balancing the competing demands from Team Arrow, Ray, and Laurel's off-the-books investigating.

    It was Thea that was the focus this time and everyone else had to step out of the spotlight. That they managed to incorporate the start of Laurel's training phase was a plus. (I'm silently hoping that Ted and Laurel won't become "Taurel". Keep it platonic. Please.)

    I'd give it a confident 8/10.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Ollie's reaction to it was a bit confusing. Okay, he's concerned how Quentin and his health will take the news of Laurel taking up the vigilante cause; she was also concerned how her dad might take news of Sara's death. But, Ollie thinks Sara wouldn't go along with it -- despite the fact the jacket hand-off last season was all but giving her consent for taking up the fight for justice. You just know he's not on board with her plans to protect her
    Unless I have missed something, Oliver is still completely unaware that Sara gave her jacket to Laurel. Him not wanting her to take up the cause I think is understandable given all the things he has went through and the fact Sara got killed being a trained member of the LoA as well. Losing 1 of the last 2 people he has known for years would be unacceptable in his mind so of course he will try and prevent her from going down that path.
    That in itself sets up a few potential interesting story lines between Oliver and Laurel/Ted Grant, or the Arrow and Grant (which I think will happen given some of the promo's on Amell's page pre this season).


    Everything else you said I pretty much agree with.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thailog View Post
    I gave it an 8.

    Thea's scenes with Oliver and Malcolm were well done. Diggle's subplot was interesting and I get the feeling it will tie into something bigger later on (H.I.V.E. maybe?).

    Laurel's journey is going a bit too fast. She tries to be a vigilante and gets her ass kicked (ok) but then conveniently runs into this martial arts trainer (could have waited a bit with that) and starts her training on the very next day (too fast). This should have been spread out over a couple of episodes. At this rate, I fully expect her to start jumping from rooftops by the end of next episode.

    Ray Palmer still comes of as creepy instead of endearing. "I'm using my wealth and influence to set up this wonderful life for you Felicity! Fall for me now please!" Yeah...
    Your point about Laurel I feel more strongly about when applying it to Thea. This is suppose to be like 6 months after last season. I see no way that Thea could become such an awesome warrior in 6 months. You might get decent against an average joe, but no way would she be able to deal with Merlyn. So he definitely let her win.

    Laurel on the other hand, has been getting some training of and on for years, and she did get in a couple brawls here n there in earlier seasons. Plus, i think she used to be a violent demon in a past life lol

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRF View Post
    Couple of short notes: I thought Laurel should have done a little better in the fight with the Bad Boyfriend, or at least taken longer to get beat up. Her moves in Season 1, in the two or three fights she had there, showed she could hold her own against criminals. For instance, when Count Vertigo kidnapped her, she beat up all his thugs and was only taken because Vertigo used a taser...

    Also, she was a little too banged up afterwards for two punches and a kick. So, either they cut some of her fight or they were playing fast and easy with her fighting (in)ability. Either way, I thought it was too drastic of a changing in her abilities from where they showed them before.

    I understand the need for explaining her need for training, but I thought it was over-done based on past fight scenes in the last two seasons, or at least in season one.

    Well, that rambled...
    Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to get across. In her case, I think they underplayed her fighting ability (as we know it). It's almost like they stole her mojo and gave it to Thea.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigificWriter View Post
    I don't think they went "too far" in toning down Laurel's ability to fight. Even if you've got rigorous self-defense training and have shown you can take out people in the past, not every opponent you face is going to go down easily, and you're going to encounter situations where you come out on the losing end. The guy took Laurel's weapon away from her, and she couldn't get it back or get the leverage she needed to overpower him.
    The fight was a little peculiar. She took a bat or something to this guy, and hits him several times. This would normally put a damper on your response, and perhaps end the fight before it begins. But this guy disarms her somehow, and then applies a mega beat down in a few moves. I wonder if this dude is some kind of powered up villain we are yet to learn of?

    But you are right, in general there is always someone who has your number, doesn't really matter how good you are.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    The writers have remained true to form with their Villian of the Week, Manhunter was once again lacking. Laurel's transition to Black Canary is going much to fast for my taste and even Thea's training is moving a bit to quickly, somebody mentioned from episode 2 a quote from Oliver to Laurel "Sara was trained by some of the greatest human killers in history, Lacroix put her down. So what do you think he's going to do to you?" Sara was gone 5 years during which she was trained by the LoA among others and suddenly Thea's able to hold her own as costumed crusader after 5 months with Malcolm or even worse, Laurel's going to kick some major butt after a few months of training with a boxer? Granted we're talking about Wildcat but he doesn't have a background in Arrow to put him anywhere near Oliver or Malcolm as a masked hero/villian. The biggest fail for me was Felicity though, I like the character and it was probably to be humorous but when she multi-tasks in front of Ray Palmer allowing him to see her doing the job of an investigator was just so wrong. It was as if she completely forgot that working with Arrow is something she's supposed to keep secret. I did enjoy Laurel asking Felicity for help though, that's how I want to see Laurel gain her place in the Arrowcave.
    Regarding the Felicity, I get the impression that she has Ray on a very thin razor of quitting at the drop of a hat. She didnt seem to really want to go work there, but perhaps made a hasty decision and the straw was there for her to grasp. And believe me, what happened with Felicity there was not humorous to me, but more irritating, because it totally reminded me of practically every job i've had for 20 years lol. But it's great to see her competence coming through, and I believe that is what Ray will take away from it. He will be thinking, "Wow, this woman is in demand, and I know she is competent, but maybe beyond that, she is invaluable to many people. I must find a way to keep her in my employ!"

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipzo View Post
    She didn't really hold her own against Malcolm, she asked if Malcolm let her win and it was pretty clear that Malcolm did (can't remember if he actually said yes or it was purely implied).
    But you know what, it was actually a pretty smooth move. I wonder if Malcolm was simply testing her will to win, more than skill. Because earlier she was kind of giving up at the first sign of pain or a set back. I can't do this, I cant do that. But this time, she made sure to have the last word, so to speak In combat, if you don't want to win, and don't want to see something through to the end, then you won't.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by super_j_man View Post
    Also we really didn't get much from Ted Grant this episode. It's odd that they would introduce a character that is going to have major interaction with another already established character a not give us a whole lot on him.

    Once again, great episode and I give it a 9/10!
    I have a suspicion that there will be at least one episode that has a focus on Ted Grant. I like him in the comics, what I remember of him. I wonder if they will give him a super jowly cat mask

  15. #30
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    I really enjoyed the ep, and gave it a 9. Maybe that was generous, but i'm happy that Arrow is on again

    Most of my comments are already exhausted above, but a couple more items.

    Team Arrow Island version - it was really nice to see Diggle and Roy, and even Oliver, out and about on an adventure. Diggle is great, he took a guy out of a moving jeep ! And unless my eyes were deceiving me, did Roy drop kick 3 guys with one kick Is it possible he is still powered up from his mirakuru?

    Ollie and Roy were both very good in trying to get Thea back to their side. I think Roy needs Thea also, but he doesn't seem to be able to express his feelings. Seeing Ollie lay it out for his little sister was very touching. I also noted when she showed up at the airport, she sits beside Oliver, and not Roy. So there will be some dragged out drama between the two I suppose

    Thea has come a long way, and it's not entirely believable imo. But this is tv, not reality, so whatever. I just hope that she might lose some of her volatility from her time with Malcolm. And Malcolm comes across as really psycho to me. He has this super happy face and beats the crap out of Thea lol And I do not doubt for a minute he would have put 3 arrows into Ollie had he got in that door I'm puzzled why he so easily let Thea go? plus, he said, "See you soon"

    Laurel is really great this season. She really has regained her fire. It bugs me how Ollie keeps pushing her away. Maybe he thinks she will keep on the back burner while he gets a grip on everything, losing Sara, getting Thea to come back, etc. But he needs to take her in and stop with the distancing nonsense. Do we really think Felicity can defend herself? And after Laurels apartment was a war zone multiple times in the past? And she knows his secret? C'mon Ollie, get with the program here.

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