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  • 10 - Put the STAR in Starling City.

    7 19.44%
  • 9

    13 36.11%
  • 8

    8 22.22%
  • 7

    4 11.11%
  • 6

    3 8.33%
  • 5

    1 2.78%
  • 4

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  • 1 - Like Sara this episode went SPLAT.

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    I agree that there is plenty of room to show Laurel fighting crime in her own way as a DA. Let's hope that the writers don't forget that aspect of her character.
    Not just that aspect of her character, but that aspect of the show. Season 3 has been 99% Arrow-cave. There's a real world that Laurel is dealing with and I want to see it. It balances the show. You can't have a superhero show that is all superhero. Superman is nothing without Lois Lane or Lana Lang. The audience needs someone to relate to. And in my opinion, Laurel is it. As soon as she suits up as the Black Canary we're going to need a new "mortal."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lois_Lane_Fan View Post
    Thanks.
    I thought it was Donna from Twin Peaks at first and I got really excited, but Teri Hatcher from Lois & Clark is just as good!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardelphia View Post
    Not just that aspect of her character, but that aspect of the show. Season 3 has been 99% Arrow-cave. There's a real world that Laurel is dealing with and I want to see it. It balances the show. You can't have a superhero show that is all superhero.
    Yes, we can see this in the sets too. No more mansions of course, no personal places, just the lair and public places, streets, restaurant, hospital ... just 2 scenes at Queen Consolidated. Thea and Laurel on the path to becoming super heroes, Ray too. Actually, in spite of her implication in team Arrow Felicity is the only normal character, that's the only one we see at work. Does Diggle work ? I think that's why some people think Felicity overreacted, but it's only that the show shifted in 100% super-hero mode so now normal reactions seem inappropriate. How would Tommy have reacted ?

    I hope that we'll see Laurel in the court too, but I'm a little afraid that without Moira, Tommy and Thea as she was before, it's impossible to come back to season one tone. What I like with super-hero is the way they switch between normal life/super hero life, like Arrow did in season one for example when he vanish from the car or in season 2 when he had to run from his mother's trial to save Felicity from the Count. The fact that now everybody knows who The Arrow is annoying.



    I'm so sorry for Quentin that it's becoming painful to watch the show.
    Last edited by like a bird; 10-18-2014 at 04:17 AM.

  3. #33
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    I gave this episode 10, not because it was perfect, but because they surprised me in a postive way. I didn't like the rushed ending of the previous episode and I was very sceptical how they are going to play this out. Seems that the mystery who killed Sara is going to be one of main plots of the season and hopefully they are not going to give an answer too easily. Emotional part of this episode was handled quite well.

    Actually I don't think Felicity overreacted. She didn't know Sara too well, right, but I guess (as she admitted herself) she was a bit envious of her and her relationship with Oliver. Now she is dead, and Felicity feel guilty about that feelings and probably scared of what might happen. She is well aware of the risk, but now it's more palpable, when one of Team Arrow members is dead, just like that. I only hated that they of course had to put Olicity hint in one of the scenes. It was so out of place. Felicity having crush on Oliver is enough, please, dear Arrow creators, stop making a total jerk of Oliver who switches his potential love interest at least three times a season and doesn't know what he wants.

    It was Laurel's episode for me. I liked everything from that story about plush shark to her investigation and the last scene with Sara's jacket and that plushie (ok, one thing I didn't like was her coming so close to the window when just a moment eailer someone shot an arrow trough it). Feel so sorry for her and also to Quentin, who is not aware of Sara's fate yet. He got back his daughter only to lose her again. How horrible. I'm sure he'll learn about this in the worst possible moment.

    Oliver was rather stiff in this episode. Guess that's was suppoused to mean that he conceals his feelings. However, his last words - "John, I don't want to die down here" are realy the line of this episode, as quasar wrote. I also liked his scenes with Laurel - in the club and especially when she wanted to shot Komodo and he tried to talk her out of this, saying he is well aware of what she feels and that he used to be this same place.

    Btw. when exactly Diggle had said that he is leaving the Team Arrow? Did I miss something or what? I thought he was going to resign from the action in the field and not to leave for good.

    Nice too see Tommy again, although his scenes were rather short. Maseo seems to risk a lot, helping Oliver. I like this guy - that's why he has to end up bad. The ending scene with Thea and "daddy" Malcolm was intriguing. What a change! I wonder how Oliver's and Malcolm's meeting is going to look like in the next episode.

    One thing. Is the custom of throwing a handfuls of dirt on the casket something which is not commonly known in US? It surprised me that Felicity told it was a Jewish custom - it's also practised in Poland, or at least it was used to, because I don't remember it from any furneals I attended, just know it exist here.

  4. #34
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    One thing. Is the custom of throwing a handfuls of dirt on the casket something which is not commonly known in US? It surprised me that Felicity told it was a Jewish custom - it's also practised in Poland, or at least it was used to, because I don't remember it from any furneals I attended, just know it exist here.
    It is well known in the US but many don't know where it comes from. A lot of movies and stuff do that but they don't talk about where the custom originated.

    I know in Catholicism we don't do that instead everyone sprinkles holy water on the casket.

  5. #35
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    One thing. Is the custom of throwing a handfuls of dirt on the casket something which is not commonly known in US? It surprised me that Felicity told it was a Jewish custom - it's also practised in Poland, or at least it was used to, because I don't remember it from any furneals I attended, just know it exist here.
    In Germany it's tradition to toss flowers or a small shovel of dirt on the casket. I doubt it's just a jewish custom as Felicity stated.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    I gave this episode 10, not because it was perfect, but because they surprised me in a postive way. I didn't like the rushed ending of the previous episode and I was very sceptical how they are going to play this out. Seems that the mystery who killed Sara is going to be one of main plots of the season and hopefully they are not going to give an answer too easily. Emotional part of this episode was handled quite well.

    Actually I don't think Felicity overreacted. She didn't know Sara too well, right, but I guess (as she admitted herself) she was a bit envious of her and her relationship with Oliver. Now she is dead, and Felicity feel guilty about that feelings and probably scared of what might happen. She is well aware of the risk, but now it's more palpable, when one of Team Arrow members is dead, just like that. I only hated that they of course had to put Olicity hint in one of the scenes. It was so out of place. Felicity having crush on Oliver is enough, please, dear Arrow creators, stop making a total jerk of Oliver who switches his potential love interest at least three times a season and doesn't know what he wants.

    It was Laurel's episode for me. I liked everything from that story about plush shark to her investigation and the last scene with Sara's jacket and that plushie (ok, one thing I didn't like was her coming so close to the window when just a moment eailer someone shot an arrow trough it). Feel so sorry for her and also to Quentin, who is not aware of Sara's fate yet. He got back his daughter only to lose her again. How horrible. I'm sure he'll learn about this in the worst possible moment.

    Oliver was rather stiff in this episode. Guess that's was suppoused to mean that he conceals his feelings. However, his last words - "John, I don't want to die down here" are realy the line of this episode, as quasar wrote. I also liked his scenes with Laurel - in the club and especially when she wanted to shot Komodo and he tried to talk her out of this, saying he is well aware of what she feels and that he used to be this same place.

    Btw. when exactly Diggle had said that he is leaving the Team Arrow? Did I miss something or what? I thought he was going to resign from the action in the field and not to leave for good.

    Nice too see Tommy again, although his scenes were rather short. Maseo seems to risk a lot, helping Oliver. I like this guy - that's why he has to end up bad. The ending scene with Thea and "daddy" Malcolm was intriguing. What a change! I wonder how Oliver's and Malcolm's meeting is going to look like in the next episode.

    One thing. Is the custom of throwing a handfuls of dirt on the casket something which is not commonly known in US? It surprised me that Felicity told it was a Jewish custom - it's also practised in Poland, or at least it was used to, because I don't remember it from any furneals I attended, just know it exist here.
    Hi "Amarice" and welcome to the forums! I liked your review, in fact, I liked it so much that I decided not to write on of my own, because you have already said most of the things I wanted to say! I will just make one comment about the Jewish custom of throwing soil on the casket. I found this online, which explains the custom:

    http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Life_Events/Death_and_Mourning/Bu rial_and_Mourning/Graveside_Service/Filling_the_Grave.shtml

    However, this is not an exclusively Jewish custom, since many Christian denominations follow the same ritual at burials. If you think about it is not that strange, since the three main religions have common roots and are all connected to Holy Scriptures which have a lot in common (Christians have the Old Testament, and the Quran also contain many Biblical passages and references to the Old and New Testament). Anyway, it was a nice reminder of Felicity's Jewishness, which has been touched upon only very occasionally.

    There is a genuine Jewish custom, and that is placing small stones on the tomb when visiting a beloved person's grave:

    http://www.shiva.com/learning-center/commemorate/stone/

    If you go to a Jewish cemetary you'll see stones placed on the tombstone, as a remembrance of sorts.

    http://www.pinterest.com/pin/531284087265657627/

    Anyway, this is a bit O.T. and the only reason why I bring it up is because I was puzzled that a seemingly panreligious custom was presented as exclusively Jewish on "Arrow".
    Last edited by evaba; 10-18-2014 at 03:40 PM.

  7. #37
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    Hello all,

    I'm a blogger who runs his own website. Many of the things I write about are related to this sort of think so I'm getting around to being an active member of a community of like minded folks.

    I've been a big Arrow fan since season 1 and it's just getting better as it goes on. I really enjoyed this episode as it furthered the characters in really interesting ways and let's not forget the action sequences.

    MOD EDIT I'm going to visit the forums dedicated to other shows I watch here too.

    Great to be among you all.
    Last edited by Vergon6; 11-17-2014 at 08:49 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by like a bird View Post
    Yes, we can see this in the sets too. No more mansions of course, no personal places, just the lair and public places, streets, restaurant, hospital ... just 2 scenes at Queen Consolidated. Thea and Laurel on the path to becoming super heroes, Ray too. Actually, in spite of her implication in team Arrow Felicity is the only normal character, that's the only one we see at work. Does Diggle work ? I think that's why some people think Felicity overreacted, but it's only that the show shifted in 100% super-hero mode so now normal reactions seem inappropriate. How would Tommy have reacted ?

    I hope that we'll see Laurel in the court too, but I'm a little afraid that without Moira, Tommy and Thea as she was before, it's impossible to come back to season one tone. What I like with super-hero is the way they switch between normal life/super hero life, like Arrow did in season one for example when he vanish from the car or in season 2 when he had to run from his mother's trial to save Felicity from the Count. The fact that now everybody knows who The Arrow is annoying.



    I'm so sorry for Quentin that it's becoming painful to watch the show.
    I gotta admit, I really miss the mansion. That place provided such a cold tone of arrogance that constantly reminded you of the other "island" Oliver had to constantly overcome. It also showcased the juxtaposition of his life and that of close friends like the Lance's. They seem to be replacing all of those dynamic aspects with Hong Kong flashbacks and it completely changes the tone.

    Since the writers pretty much eliminated most of the mortals I don't see any way back that doesn't involve the introduction of new, main characters who function in the real world. But even then, the writers have eliminated all of Oliver's potential, real-world family struggles. He even seems resigned to handover his company.

    And Quinten, yeah. Poor guy. It's gonna be a mess when he finds out about Sara, but sadly it's all so, so predictable. I really hope there are some good plot twists coming up that don't involve killing off another main character.

  9. #39
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    Hi "Amarice" and welcome to the forums! I liked your review, in fact, I liked it so much that I decided not to write on of my own, because you have already said most of the things I wanted to say! I will just make one comment about the Jewish custom of throwing soil on the casket. I found this online, which explains the custom:

    http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Life_Events/Death_and_Mourning/Bu rial_and_Mourning/Graveside_Service/Filling_the_Grave.shtml

    However, this is not an exclusively Jewish custom, since many Christian denominations follow the same ritual at burials. If you think about it is not that strange, since the three main religions have common roots and are all connected to Holy Scriptures which have a lot in common (Christians have the Old Testament, and the Quran also contain many Biblical passages and references to the Old and New Testament). Anyway, it was a nice reminder of Felicity's Jewishness, which has been touched upon only very occasionally.

    There is a genuine Jewish custom, and that is placing small stones on the tomb when visiting a beloved person's grave:

    http://www.shiva.com/learning-center/commemorate/stone/

    If you go to a Jewish cemetary you'll see stones placed on the tombstone, as a remembrance of sorts.

    http://www.pinterest.com/pin/531284087265657627/

    Anyway, this is a bit O.T. and the only reason why I bring it up is because I was puzzled that a seemingly panreligious custom was presented as exclusively Jewish on "Arrow".
    Thank you, Evaba! I came across many of your posts on this forum and I like to read your reviews.

    Yes, what surprised me the most was that in the tv show they made it look as if it was something exclusive, practised only by Jews. The custom with stones placed on the tombstone is interesting, though. But it seems that the pratices with throwing soil on the casket it's known not only in US, as Halberdier17 wrote, but according to DoubleDevil also in Germany. I guess the creators wanted to remind us about Felicity's origin.

  10. #40
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    And during Jonathan Kent's funeral on Smallville, they made a point of showing Clark putting soil from his hands onto JK's casket. They didn't really get into the religious affiliations of characters, but I can only assume the Kents' origins could be any number of Protestant denominations.

    Anyway, in terms of continuity it was good that Felicity's character had it ... and it's entirely likely one's beliefs (or not) would surface during a funeral.

    I wonder who called dibs as baby Sara's godparents?

    "Ollie (while shaving at arrowcave, practising menacing faces he'd use in the streets): "You have failed this city? No, wait -- you have failed this city?! Umm -- you have failed this city!!! No, too scary. You have failed this city! Sw-eee-t. Yeah, I'll go with this one.

    Diggle: Look, I've got to take this phone call. You're Sara's godfather, guess who's got diaper duty -- right now. You can practise scary Arrow faces when Sara's all tidy and clean.

    Ollie: Oh s#$%!

    Diggle: Hey, how'd you guess?"

  11. #41
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    Great episode but there were a few things I didn't like. Really enjoying Laurel this season. Also I think that is two episodes in a row now that Felicity has referenced that she is Jewish which is always nice to hear. I think it adds to her character who I sometimes find quite irritating. It was good it wasn't another reference to Hanukkah although I'm sure that will come soon . I liked the picture of Obama at ARGUS as well, it added a sense of realism.

    Are we supposed to forget that for the past two seasons Oliver has said at the beginning of each episode how he spent five years on an island? Why didn't he just say from the start of the series that he had had five years of hell? It reeks of short-term story planning and retconning. I get this sense of keeping the viewers as surprised as they can but I don't think it adds anything to the show. If the writers couldn't think of a way to make the island scenes interesting they could have just phased them out.

    I was trying to work out from the start of the episode how Laurel managed to drag Sara's body across the city to the Arrowcave. Was rather strange to me.

    Also didn't like Oliver's "ok" to Roy. A friend of his has died and his sister is ignoring him which is Roy's fault to an extent. It reminded me of season one Oliver who I didn't particularly like.

    I think it is absolutely ridiculous that Laurel didn't tell Quentin the truth. Not only will Quentin inevitably find out that his daughter is dead, he is also going to find out that his other daughter lied about it. I think it is quite hypocritical of Laurel as well. Wasn't she angry with her Dad when she found out that he knew Sara was alive and didn't tell her? Storyline wise it could be interesting though. Maybe someone will tell Quentin that the Arrow killed her, Laurel knew and didn't tell him, causing Quentin to turn against Arrow and Laurel...
    Last edited by Quark; 10-19-2014 at 02:53 PM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    I wonder who called dibs as baby Sara's godparents?

    "Ollie (while shaving at arrowcave, practising menacing faces he'd use in the streets): "You have failed this city? No, wait -- you have failed this city?! Umm -- you have failed this city!!! No, too scary. You have failed this city! Sw-eee-t. Yeah, I'll go with this one.

    Diggle: Look, I've got to take this phone call. You're Sara's godfather, guess who's got diaper duty -- right now. You can practise scary Arrow faces when Sara's all tidy and clean.

    Ollie: Oh s#$%!

    Diggle: Hey, how'd you guess?"


    Loved the Ollie talking in the mirror bit.......except that he doesn't really shave does he?

  13. #43
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    I recall Felicity mentioning she was jewish when Oliver wished her a Merry Christmas and now during Sara's funeral making a reference to her religion again seems appropriate yet I don't think religion defines a person/character so to much reference is overkill.

    As for Oliver reacting stiff to Sara's death, let's not forget he was put through hell for 5 years where his humanity was supposedly ripped from him. It's not surprising that he'd attempt to detach himself from his emotions. We didn't see Oliver weeping after Tommy's death nor did we see any emotional outpouring after Moira's death yet suddenily because Felicity is crying like a broken faucet Oliver should be showing more emotion as well? Sorry, not buying it.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    I recall Felicity mentioning she was jewish when Oliver wished her a Merry Christmas and now during Sara's funeral making a reference to her religion again seems appropriate yet I don't think religion defines a person/character so to much reference is overkill.

    As for Oliver reacting stiff to Sara's death, let's not forget he was put through hell for 5 years where his humanity was supposedly ripped from him. It's not surprising that he'd attempt to detach himself from his emotions. We didn't see Oliver weeping after Tommy's death nor did we see any emotional outpouring after Moira's death yet suddenily because Felicity is crying like a broken faucet Oliver should be showing more emotion as well? Sorry, not buying it.
    Felicity has mentioned it a couple more times I think. I understand that religion doesn't define her character but it does help to develop a character that we barely know anything about. I wouldn't really mention it if we knew more about her.

    I do remember Oliver being incredibly upset as soon as both Tommy and Moira died. The scene when Moira died was probably his best. Oliver could have shown at least a bit more emotion when Sara died and when he found out about Thea. It would have tipped anyone over the edge.

    I don't think I said anything about Felicity with regard to Oliver not showing any emotion.

  15. #45
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    I do remember Oliver being incredibly upset as soon as both Tommy and Moira died. The scene when Moira died was probably his best. Oliver could have shown at least a bit more emotion when Sara died and when he found out about Thea. It would have tipped anyone over the edge.

    I don't think I said anything about Felicity with regard to Oliver not showing any emotion.
    Both Tommy and Moira Oliver saw die right in front of his eyes and he wasn't able to do anything about it, Sara died and Oliver saw her possibly hours later. Not exactly the same situation. Also we saw Oliver when Moira died and then again after Moira's funeral, in other words the time frame "Sara" took place is the same as when we didn't see Oliver so we can't truly compare his emotional state at that time. While I found Oliver to be somewhat more composed about Sara's death, I wouldn't say he wasn't just as upset about it.

    You didn't draw any direct comparison between Oliver and Felicity but I have read/heard others that complain how much emotion Felicity showed and therefore Oliver could've shown more. It's also why I didn't quote you because that was a comment not aimed at you directly

    EDIT: If Felicity did mention her religion so often then I discarded the information as irrelavent otherwise I'd have to begin seeing her as a religious zealot seeing how little background info we have right now.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 10-19-2014 at 07:00 PM.

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