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  1. #31
    We Will Avenge!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    I just finished the first episode and so far I'm not seeing the reason for any negative reviews. The "slowness" seems to me to deal with the mystery surrounding Danny.

  2. #32
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Trying to remain vague as to not spoil anything for anyone I do think the fight scenes, while I did enjoy them, weren't nearly as well done as in Daredevil. Unlike the first season of the other shows Iron Fist doesn't seem to have a singular known villain, Matt knew he was going after Kingpin by midseason as did Luke with Diamondback and Jessica knew she was facing Killgrave right in the pilot, Danny doesn't know who he's really after until the final 2 episodes. I've complained about Arrow being to predictable and while Iron Fist had some obvious tropes and cliches, the overall story wasn't forseeable (some things I saw coming but not how they would get there, even the end villain I predicted but the show had me questioning myself throughout).

  3. #33
    We Will Avenge!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    I'm two episodes shy of the S1 finale and there seems to be one too many villains. [SPOILER] I'm not sure who's telling the truth in this series; The Meachums, the Hand (or the other Hand...yeah why not something else like the Ear like Claire stated; those lines about the other faction were cheesy), Madam Gao...[/SPOILER]who's actually telling the truth to Danny?

  4. #34
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkphoenix21 View Post
    I'm two episodes shy of the S1 finale and there seems to be one too many villains. [SPOILER] I'm not sure who's telling the truth in this series; The Meachums, the Hand (or the other Hand...yeah why not something else like the Ear like Claire stated[emoji38]; those lines about the other faction were cheesy), Madam Gao...[/SPOILER]who's actually telling the truth to Danny?
    I was almost expecting a TMNT reference during that scene.

  5. #35
    We Will Avenge!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    The ending was disappointing. After watching the entire season it felt like a 13-episode set up than a 13-hour long movie.... I mean it ended with [SPOILER] Danny and Colleen approaching the entrance to K'un-lun only to find that it's gone and some of the monks have been killed by the Hand. I was expecting that by the end of this first season Danny would become the full fledged Iron Fist (even though they made it clear throughout the season that he was already Iron Fist but, I was thinking that both hands would be glowing and he'd develop a new skill of some sort while battling Bakuto, The Hand or someone with his level of abilities).

    Harold is probably still alive
    Joy and Davros are plotting to kill Danny
    Where does Madam Gao stand? (In her own way is she actually looking out for Danny?)
    Where is K'un-lun? Will we actually see more of it than a few flashback glimpses?
    [/SPOILER]

    How will this lead into The Defenders?

  6. #36
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkphoenix21 View Post
    The ending was disappointing. After watching the entire season it felt like a 13-episode set up than a 13-hour long movie.... I mean it ended with [SPOILER] Danny and Colleen approaching the entrance to K'un-lun only to find that it's gone and some of the monks have been killed by the Hand. I was expecting that by the end of this first season Danny would become the full fledged Iron Fist (even though they made it clear throughout the season that he was already Iron Fist but, I was thinking that both hands would be glowing and he'd develop a new skill of some sort while battling Bakuto, The Hand or someone with his level of abilities).

    Harold is probably still alive
    Joy and Davros are plotting to kill Danny
    Where does Madam Gao stand? (In her own way is she actually looking out for Danny?)
    Where is K'un-lun? Will we actually see more of it than a few flashback glimpses?
    [/SPOILER]

    How will this lead into The Defenders?
    Yes I was disappointed with the cliffhanger that almost seemed to come out of nowhere. Daredevil had a nice wrap up in season 1 capturing Kingpin and Jessica Jones wrapped her season 1 up with Killgrave leaving the viewers asking what will the show bring next season. Luke Cage, Daredevil season 2 and now Iron Fist tell exactly where the story is going next season without actually knowing if there will be a next season. Sure we can expect to get most of our answers with Defenders since the shows are running chronological but the open endedness takes away from the movie feel we got with Daredevil season 1 and Jessica Jones.

    I expect Danny to come back from the himalayas looking for another faction of the Hand which Sigourney Weaver will be running. Claire will clue Danny in on Luke Cage as a potential allie in fighting her/them and Matt Murdock to get Luke out of prison. Or maybe Jerry Hogarth will put her new employee, Foggy Nelson, on the case who'll ask Matt for help. Maybe Claire doesn't know what happened to Luke and suggests Jessica Jones as a detective to find him first or Jerry hires Jessica to find evidence to exonerate Luke.

    [SPOILER] Matt took down Nobu's faction of the Hand, Danny took down Bakuto's faction but I'm thinking Madam Gao isn't actually running any faction of the Hand, rather she's working with them as she did in season 1 of Daredevil. Danny knows the Hand is operating in NY, his encounter with Madam Gao and Bakuto plus Claire mentioning fighting the Hand previously and Colleen believing Bakuto's faction to be a force of good would mean there had to be another faction and since up until then Danny believed the Hand was some fictional boogeyman he needs to find, he'll go where he knows they actually were to get answers of who attacked K'un Lun meaning he has to return to NY.

    Oh... I'm pretty sure Harold is dead, they cremated his body during Ward and Danny renewing the Rand/Meachum partnership.
    [/SPOILER]
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 03-19-2017 at 12:09 AM.

  7. #37
    We Will Avenge!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    One thing about the overall season, similar to Luke Cage, that it felt like two different tones to the season; like one set of writers did the first half and another group of writers were brought in to do the last half.

    I noticed that towards the back half they started throwing in jokes at the most serious and awkward moments of the show. Binge watching it I can't recall them throwing jokes randomly in the beginning.
    Last edited by darkphoenix21; 03-19-2017 at 12:47 PM.

  8. #38
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    I am genuinely confused as to why the critics hated the show. I thought it was pretty good. I really really felt bad for Ward.

  9. #39
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward Galaxy View Post
    I am genuinely confused as to why the critics hated the show. I thought it was pretty good. I really really felt bad for Ward.
    The only explanation I have is a SJW push to demand seeing what they wanted. It was tried in the (video) gaming industry and the comicbook industry, now they're going against movie/tv with renewed vigor.

    It wasn't a perfect show by any means but didn't deserve anywhere near the hate critics gave it.

  10. #40
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    Yeah, not perfect. I think I enjoyed Jessica Jones and Daredevil s1 more, but it was pretty good. The critics made it sound like a train wreck. It was nothing close to that bad.

  11. #41
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Episode 2 was kind of "meh" for me.

    [SPOILER]Two main problems:
    1. Danny spent the whole episode in the psych hospital, and I don't care for psych hospital-based episodes generally. Felt very static, a lot of Danny just having to sit around and talk, when he wasn't being restrained or drugged. Felt like a lot of "telling" rather than showing. Very visually drab. A lot of very cliche-type psych hospital scenes: the dreary day room w/ the crazy patients, orderlies shoving pills down protagonist's throat etc. As a viewer, I felt confined, and not in a way that made me identify w/ Danny feeling confined, but rather that I was stuck in a slow boring part of a story. I do think they did a good job w/ the characterization of the doctor and the other patient who befriended Danny. I expected them to be bland caricatures, but actually found myself getting attached to the patient-friend, and I thought the doctor was interesting - first I thought he was just going to be a somewhat detached businesslike psych doctor, then he seemed to be sympathetic, he seemed to really take his job seriously and maybe even care about Danny, and by the end I felt like he was a real person and not just a plot-device. Actor did a nice job. So, good for the writers, especially if those 2 characters were just there for that one episode.

    2. Sorry, I know it's shallow on my part, but I am seriously bothered by the Harold Meacham actor. Not him personally, but his fit for this role.

    So here's my shallow Harold-rant: I don't like that Harold has a swath of youthful puffy blond hair. (makes me think he should be an aging somewhat-hip guy, perhaps an advertising executive, in some other movie or TV series where he's divorced or widowed and trying to start over on the dating scene or something like that, walking around the streets of a busy hip city, with his Starbucks latte in hand). .He and Ward still look too close in age to be father and son. At least maybe if the actor had dyed his hair grey & black it would easier to believe. I'd prefer Harold look a bit more substantial, older, more intimidating, even taller. Harold seems too short, and he walks w/ a youthful duck-footed, somewhat athletic stride where he weirdly swings - almost throws - his legs out from side to side. I just find it distracting. Again, shallow I know, but he's just not coming across to me as a powerful menacing secretive family patriarch. Guess I'll get used to him though. Also, 2 episodes in and I'm starting to feel claustrophobic being stuck in Harold's penthouse w/ him. Hopefully this will change, otherwise that's going to feel very static. End of Harold-rant.

    Also, don't feel like they've done a very good job w/ his feckless assistant Kyle. Why does Kyle sit at a desk in the hallway? That's a very odd location. Feels like an afterthought on part of set designers. Kyle seems like a total caricature right now. Guess I'll have to wait and see.

    Otherwise, comments and questions I look forward to learning answers to:
    - Enjoyed what I saw of Colleen. Liked her scene w/ Danny in psych hospital.
    - Enjoyed the idea of the monastery being in another dimension and appearing only every 15 years, or something along those lines.
    - Who is The Hand? Why is it beneficial to Harold that Danny is sworn enemy of The Hand? How does Harold know about The Hand?
    - Why did Danny choose to come back now? What does he want? Why did Danny so freely talk to the doctor about being Iron Fist? I thought all superheroes always wanted to keep their "powers" secret, but does Danny plan to be open about his ability?
    - Who did Ward contact in psych hospital (I guess) about change of plans? The doctor? (Aside: I didn't think it made any sense that Ward would need those psych-patient goons to beat up Danny prior to his transfer when all they had to do was drug him like they'd been doing; seemed like an obvious plot device to create a scenario where he could become so embattled that he'd break out his Iron Fist)
    [/SPOILER]

  12. #42
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Episode 2 was kind of "meh" for me.

    [SPOILER]Two main problems:
    1. Danny spent the whole episode in the psych hospital, and I don't care for psych hospital-based episodes generally. Felt very static, a lot of Danny just having to sit around and talk, when he wasn't being restrained or drugged. Felt like a lot of "telling" rather than showing. Very visually drab. A lot of very cliche-type psych hospital scenes: the dreary day room w/ the crazy patients, orderlies shoving pills down protagonist's throat etc. As a viewer, I felt confined, and not in a way that made me identify w/ Danny feeling confined, but rather that I was stuck in a slow boring part of a story. I do think they did a good job w/ the characterization of the doctor and the other patient who befriended Danny. I expected them to be bland caricatures, but actually found myself getting attached to the patient-friend, and I thought the doctor was interesting - first I thought he was just going to be a somewhat detached businesslike psych doctor, then he seemed to be sympathetic, he seemed to really take his job seriously and maybe even care about Danny, and by the end I felt like he was a real person and not just a plot-device. Actor did a nice job. So, good for the writers, especially if those 2 characters were just there for that one episode.

    2. Sorry, I know it's shallow on my part, but I am seriously bothered by the Harold Meacham actor. Not him personally, but his fit for this role.

    So here's my shallow Harold-rant: I don't like that Harold has a swath of youthful puffy blond hair. (makes me think he should be an aging somewhat-hip guy, perhaps an advertising executive, in some other movie or TV series where he's divorced or widowed and trying to start over on the dating scene or something like that, walking around the streets of a busy hip city, with his Starbucks latte in hand). .He and Ward still look too close in age to be father and son. At least maybe if the actor had dyed his hair grey & black it would easier to believe. I'd prefer Harold look a bit more substantial, older, more intimidating, even taller. Harold seems too short, and he walks w/ a youthful duck-footed, somewhat athletic stride where he weirdly swings - almost throws - his legs out from side to side. I just find it distracting. Again, shallow I know, but he's just not coming across to me as a powerful menacing secretive family patriarch. Guess I'll get used to him though. Also, 2 episodes in and I'm starting to feel claustrophobic being stuck in Harold's penthouse w/ him. Hopefully this will change, otherwise that's going to feel very static. End of Harold-rant.

    Also, don't feel like they've done a very good job w/ his feckless assistant Kyle. Why does Kyle sit at a desk in the hallway? That's a very odd location. Feels like an afterthought on part of set designers. Kyle seems like a total caricature right now. Guess I'll have to wait and see.

    Otherwise, comments and questions I look forward to learning answers to:
    - Enjoyed what I saw of Colleen. Liked her scene w/ Danny in psych hospital.
    - Enjoyed the idea of the monastery being in another dimension and appearing only every 15 years, or something along those lines.
    - Who is The Hand? Why is it beneficial to Harold that Danny is sworn enemy of The Hand? How does Harold know about The Hand?
    - Why did Danny choose to come back now? What does he want? Why did Danny so freely talk to the doctor about being Iron Fist? I thought all superheroes always wanted to keep their "powers" secret, but does Danny plan to be open about his ability?
    - Who did Ward contact in psych hospital (I guess) about change of plans? The doctor? (Aside: I didn't think it made any sense that Ward would need those psych-patient goons to beat up Danny prior to his transfer when all they had to do was drug him like they'd been doing; seemed like an obvious plot device to create a scenario where he could become so embattled that he'd break out his Iron Fist)
    [/SPOILER]
    A quick answer to the Hand can be found in Daredevil without spoiling to much. Basically they're ninja assassins and criminals ala yakuza and demon worshippers with the power to resurrect people.

    Regarding Harold and the Hand... Answers coming (in the show or below).

    [SPOILER] Harold made a deal with the Hand to overcome his cancer, Danny being the sworn enemy of rhe Hand Harold sees as a way for him to get out of the deal. [/SPOILER]
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 03-31-2017 at 04:00 AM.

  13. #43
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    A quick answer to the Hand can be found in Daredevil without spoiling to much. Basically they're ninja assassins and criminals ala yakuza and demon worshippers with the power to resurrect people.

    Regarding Harold and the Hand... Answers coming (in the show or below).
    Thanks! I didn't look at the spoiler b/c, after hearing about the negative reviews (though didn't read any) I decided to remain as unspoiled as possible and watch in as ignorant state as possible (the latter not hard to do, lol), just to see what I think without other influences...I'm a slow watcher though, so I know the downside is I'm very late to the discussion. But can't be helped

    Episode 3 – my favorite so far. So glad we’ve escaped the psych hospital and I hope there’s no going back.

    [SPOILER]There was nothing I especially disliked about this episode (more on my shallow issues w/ Harold later, lol) and there was quite a bit I liked, in a quiet kind of way. I’m pleased to learn more about the various characters, get a few questions answered (kinda), while still get to ponder over the remaining mysteries and unanswered questions. I’m intrigued and interested enough to keep wanting more. (Maybe if I were familiar w/ the character from comics I’d already know what the answers are, in which case maybe I would be bored.)

    First up: yay! Jeri Hogarth! Always love watching her.

    I continue to like Danny. I’m rooting for him. I’m glad he’s going to fight to get his name and company back. Not really clear to me if Danny actually wants the Rand company, or is it mostly just that he wants to reclaim his name and the idea of his birthright? In addition to his business w/ The Hand, is it possible that he specifically wants control of Rand in order to do something w/ the company? Perhaps Rand, under the Meachams (via instructions of The Hand), has been up to no good – or soon plans to be – and therefore Danny has to stop this by taking over the company? Is Danny acting on his own, or has he been instructed to come back and deal with The Hand (and maybe regain Rand) by someone “higher up”?

    Meanwhile, though I like Danny, I’m glad he got put in his place by Colleen when he barged into the dojo, took over Darrell’s class and violently attacked a youth who failed to pay proper respect to Danny’s sacred religion of The Martial Arts. It’s fine if martial arts are sacred to Danny, but he really can’t expect everyone in the city, even those taking classes!, to treat martial arts with the reverence he does. In that way, he kind of reminds me of a religious zealot. I’m curious to see if Colleen will have a moderating influence on him or not, b/c she gets it. She knows what real life is like. But Danny I presume has led a sheltered warrior-monk existence and needs to learn some tolerance. Danny can forego the wearing of shoes, cutting his hair & taking showers if he wants, and other people can goof off in martial arts class if they want!

    Really like Colleen. She seems well-grounded and I assume she’s going to get caught up in the battles between Danny & The Meachams/The Hand. I expect she’ll handle herself well, both physically and mentally. Looks like she won’t put up w/ any crap from Danny so far, and that’s good. Also enjoyed her fight scene b/c – though I figured she was going to win – they wrote the scene so that she took quite a few hits, was vulnerable at times and got battered.

    Now on to the Meachams. Glad we got the scene w/ Harold sleeping in his oxygen chamber and then dosing himself w/ some mysterious “potion”. While I still have some problems w/ the visual disconnect I experience when I try to accept Harold-Ward as father-son combo (BTW, had the exact same problem w/ John Barrowman & Colin Donnell in Arrow and it ALWAYS took me out of their scenes) I can now explain the dissonance to myself as being the result of one of two things: maybe Harold is overly vain about his appearance and is taking active measures to appear as youthful as possible (more so than measures one might see taken by someone who is at peace w/ aging yet still wants to remain fit for their age etc), or – especially after seeing Harold imbibe drops of his mysterious potion – maybe there is something mystical going on that involves The Hand. Perhaps The Hand has gifted Harold w/ immortality (mysterious potion!) wherein Harold is permanently frozen in time at a certain age, in exchange for something from Harold (what that might be, I don’t know). Also, seeing that Harold was forced to submit and grovel in broken glass before The Hand (I presume), I also no longer view Harold as the most powerful bad guy around. Maybe he’s more like a vain narcissistic bantam rooster who feels the need to retain a youthful image so as to dispel any signs of age-induced “weakness.” Though to me, the desperation underlying such a desire seems to be evidence of a certain kind of weakness in itself. So, I guess I’ll see if either of these theories about Harold pans out and make my peace w/ Harold looking too young to be Ward’s father. Moving along then…

    The more I see of Ward, the more sympathetic I find him, while in contrast I’m beginning to see that Joy is probably the more sociopathic and ruthless of the two, and therefore less sympathetic. Ward’s not a good guy, but Ward’s actions seem to be more emotionally honest. He never liked Danny, so it was easy for him to try to have Danny killed in psych hospital (BTW, really liked that the show followed up with having a discussion between Harold-Ward as to why Ward did that, b/c I originally thought it was only a somewhat clumsy plot device, but actually we see that it was compatible w/ who Ward fundamentally is: someone who is more instinctive than calculated, and therefore less able to restrain his impulses despite Harold’s instructions. So I'll retract my earlier complaint). Ward is more straightforward, I guess. His instinct is to eliminate Danny in order to protect his family, rather than hold off for long-term strategic purposes (does Ward even know about The Hand? I’ve forgotten if that came up last ep…) In contrast, we see several times that Joy does have an emotional bond to Danny, of fondness of friendship, forged during their childhood, and she still has those positive feelings to some degree in present day, but undoubtedly she won’t hesitate to override any such feelings and crush him in order to achieve her ends (or at least that’s what I suspect right now). And that’s a much colder, more ruthless, dangerous type of personality IMO. Will be interesting to see this play out. Also I was surprised to learn that Joy does not know Harold is alive; I misunderstood a scene in last ep and thought she was also in on the secret. Will be interesting to see her reaction when she finds out.

    I guess what I like about the Meachams is there is no doubt they are antagonistic to Danny and his goals, however they are complex enough (at least so far) that I don’t see them as purely evil. I see aspects in each one that makes me feel some empathy or sympathy. Yes, even for Harold, who seems to be confining himself to his penthouse prison under threat of death against his children by The Hand. Who can’t sympathize with a father’s fears for his childrens’ lives, and his love for them? (although it is possible that Harold is a narcissist who sees his children as extensions of himself, and thus protecting them is more an exercise in protecting himself & his "property"…remains to be seen)
    [/SPOILER]

    Anyway, I’m enjoying the show so far b/c I still have lots of questions and am looking forward to finding out more about these characters, their motivations, and the mysteries surrounding The Hand.

  14. #44
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Thanks! I didn't look at the spoiler b/c, after hearing about the negative reviews (though didn't read any) I decided to remain as unspoiled as possible and watch in as ignorant state as possible (the latter not hard to do, lol), just to see what I think without other influences...I'm a slow watcher though, so I know the downside is I'm very late to the discussion. But can't be helped

    Episode 3 – my favorite so far. So glad we’ve escaped the psych hospital and I hope there’s no going back.

    [SPOILER]There was nothing I especially disliked about this episode (more on my shallow issues w/ Harold later, lol) and there was quite a bit I liked, in a quiet kind of way. I’m pleased to learn more about the various characters, get a few questions answered (kinda), while still get to ponder over the remaining mysteries and unanswered questions. I’m intrigued and interested enough to keep wanting more. (Maybe if I were familiar w/ the character from comics I’d already know what the answers are, in which case maybe I would be bored.)

    First up: yay! Jeri Hogarth! Always love watching her.

    I continue to like Danny. I’m rooting for him. I’m glad he’s going to fight to get his name and company back. Not really clear to me if Danny actually wants the Rand company, or is it mostly just that he wants to reclaim his name and the idea of his birthright? In addition to his business w/ The Hand, is it possible that he specifically wants control of Rand in order to do something w/ the company? Perhaps Rand, under the Meachams (via instructions of The Hand), has been up to no good – or soon plans to be – and therefore Danny has to stop this by taking over the company? Is Danny acting on his own, or has he been instructed to come back and deal with The Hand (and maybe regain Rand) by someone “higher up”?

    Meanwhile, though I like Danny, I’m glad he got put in his place by Colleen when he barged into the dojo, took over Darrell’s class and violently attacked a youth who failed to pay proper respect to Danny’s sacred religion of The Martial Arts. It’s fine if martial arts are sacred to Danny, but he really can’t expect everyone in the city, even those taking classes!, to treat martial arts with the reverence he does. In that way, he kind of reminds me of a religious zealot. I’m curious to see if Colleen will have a moderating influence on him or not, b/c she gets it. She knows what real life is like. But Danny I presume has led a sheltered warrior-monk existence and needs to learn some tolerance. Danny can forego the wearing of shoes, cutting his hair & taking showers if he wants, and other people can goof off in martial arts class if they want!

    Really like Colleen. She seems well-grounded and I assume she’s going to get caught up in the battles between Danny & The Meachams/The Hand. I expect she’ll handle herself well, both physically and mentally. Looks like she won’t put up w/ any crap from Danny so far, and that’s good. Also enjoyed her fight scene b/c – though I figured she was going to win – they wrote the scene so that she took quite a few hits, was vulnerable at times and got battered.

    Now on to the Meachams. Glad we got the scene w/ Harold sleeping in his oxygen chamber and then dosing himself w/ some mysterious “potion”. While I still have some problems w/ the visual disconnect I experience when I try to accept Harold-Ward as father-son combo (BTW, had the exact same problem w/ John Barrowman & Colin Donnell in Arrow and it ALWAYS took me out of their scenes) I can now explain the dissonance to myself as being the result of one of two things: maybe Harold is overly vain about his appearance and is taking active measures to appear as youthful as possible (more so than measures one might see taken by someone who is at peace w/ aging yet still wants to remain fit for their age etc), or – especially after seeing Harold imbibe drops of his mysterious potion – maybe there is something mystical going on that involves The Hand. Perhaps The Hand has gifted Harold w/ immortality (mysterious potion!) wherein Harold is permanently frozen in time at a certain age, in exchange for something from Harold (what that might be, I don’t know). Also, seeing that Harold was forced to submit and grovel in broken glass before The Hand (I presume), I also no longer view Harold as the most powerful bad guy around. Maybe he’s more like a vain narcissistic bantam rooster who feels the need to retain a youthful image so as to dispel any signs of age-induced “weakness.” Though to me, the desperation underlying such a desire seems to be evidence of a certain kind of weakness in itself. So, I guess I’ll see if either of these theories about Harold pans out and make my peace w/ Harold looking too young to be Ward’s father. Moving along then…

    The more I see of Ward, the more sympathetic I find him, while in contrast I’m beginning to see that Joy is probably the more sociopathic and ruthless of the two, and therefore less sympathetic. Ward’s not a good guy, but Ward’s actions seem to be more emotionally honest. He never liked Danny, so it was easy for him to try to have Danny killed in psych hospital (BTW, really liked that the show followed up with having a discussion between Harold-Ward as to why Ward did that, b/c I originally thought it was only a somewhat clumsy plot device, but actually we see that it was compatible w/ who Ward fundamentally is: someone who is more instinctive than calculated, and therefore less able to restrain his impulses despite Harold’s instructions. So I'll retract my earlier complaint). Ward is more straightforward, I guess. His instinct is to eliminate Danny in order to protect his family, rather than hold off for long-term strategic purposes (does Ward even know about The Hand? I’ve forgotten if that came up last ep…) In contrast, we see several times that Joy does have an emotional bond to Danny, of fondness of friendship, forged during their childhood, and she still has those positive feelings to some degree in present day, but undoubtedly she won’t hesitate to override any such feelings and crush him in order to achieve her ends (or at least that’s what I suspect right now). And that’s a much colder, more ruthless, dangerous type of personality IMO. Will be interesting to see this play out. Also I was surprised to learn that Joy does not know Harold is alive; I misunderstood a scene in last ep and thought she was also in on the secret. Will be interesting to see her reaction when she finds out.

    I guess what I like about the Meachams is there is no doubt they are antagonistic to Danny and his goals, however they are complex enough (at least so far) that I don’t see them as purely evil. I see aspects in each one that makes me feel some empathy or sympathy. Yes, even for Harold, who seems to be confining himself to his penthouse prison under threat of death against his children by The Hand. Who can’t sympathize with a father’s fears for his childrens’ lives, and his love for them? (although it is possible that Harold is a narcissist who sees his children as extensions of himself, and thus protecting them is more an exercise in protecting himself & his "property"…remains to be seen)
    [/SPOILER]

    Anyway, I’m enjoying the show so far b/c I still have lots of questions and am looking forward to finding out more about these characters, their motivations, and the mysteries surrounding The Hand.
    Actually I'm glad you're taking your time watching the show, gives me something to read here now and then. And I am enjoying reading your reviews.

    Your Harold/Ward problem is spot on, it only took me out of the show 2 or 3 times but something like that has never happened to me before (and it happened before you mentioned it, that just explained to me what I just experienced). Normally I'm able to ignore irrelevant details that the actors can't really influence anyway such as age, skin color, hair color or style (can be influenced but doesn't usually bother me), overly tall or short, overweight or anarexic, etc., unless there's an in-story reason for me to pay attention to such a detail. There's no reason for me to notice the lack of age difference between Harold and Ward in the early episodes but I definately noticed it.

    I enjoyed the nods to the other Netflix shows and Jeri and Claire are played by two fantastic actresses that add that special something just by being there. Colleen is the other absolute stand out in the show.

    I knew about Luke Cage and Iron Fist before the shows but I'm not a fan of their comics, I did a little research on them and Jessica Jones before the shows started but I know little more of the characters than somebody like you Shelby, I find that allows the showrunners to tell the story they want without screaming “that's not who that character is“ unless they really step out of bounds.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 04-01-2017 at 01:01 AM.

  15. #45
    Mad Man with a Box! HalJordan4184's Avatar
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    I wasn't horribly impressed with Iron Fist, but like most others, didn't find it the "absolute garbage" a lot of reviews made it out to be. Sure, I think Daredevil and Jessica Jones were better, but that doesn't make this entry horrible. I did find the pacing kind of slow, and this didn't have a resolution of the type we've been used to with the other Marvel Netflix entries, but I'm okay with that.

    One of my biggest beefs with the show, is Danny himself. Slightly spoilery: [SPOILER] Danny just doesn't seem like a "Buddhist-like Warrior Monk" to me. He's full of anger, runs off half cocked all the time, and doesn't think things through. He's just not very zen. As was pointed out, he's mad at a group of inner city kids who don't treat martial arts with respect, but he openly doesn't respect his own position and training as the Iron Fist. I also find it quite odd that as the Iron Fist, he's woefully under-trained, and the Hand seems to be more knowledgeable about his powers than he is. Also, the martial arts seen with Danny seemed more reminiscent of the old Kung Fu series. Part of this, as was pointed out by Marc Bernardin in his review during the Fatman on Batman Podcast, is they left very little time for training and choreography compared to other martial arts endeavors. My hope is that season 2 corrects some of this. It wasn't terrible, it just wasn't great either. I want to believe Danny Rand is the literal greatest martial artist of the universe they are in. Despite my complaints, which really aren't a lot, I'm looking forward to the Defenders, and the possible Season 2. [/SPOILER]

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