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  1. #121
    Custom Title Exedore's Avatar
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    Yep, from the moment Elizabeth Mitchell was cast I was wondering if she'd be playing the actual Snow Queen ie the one from Hans Christian Andersen's original story. Elsa in the Disney adaptation was nothing like the Snow Queen. Looks like they are indeed incorporating her back into the Frozen world. If so then that's awesome!

    It would be even better if they drop some Narnia hints as well since the White Witch has a lot of similarities to the Snow Queen.

  2. #122
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    E! News

    Looks like Queen Elsa is getting her fairy-tale wedding after all!

    Disney Weddings announced today that it has partnered with Alfred Angelo Bridal to create a Frozen wedding dress. The Mickey Mouse brand posted a pic via Instagram, captioning the post: "The rumors are true- meet "Elsa", our Frozen-inspired wedding gown with @AlfredAngeloBridal! #Disney #Frozen #wedding #dress."

    "A character like Elsa is a huge inspiration for any designer," Michele Piccione, Alfred Angelo's Chief Creative Officer and the designer responsible for the icy dress, told InStyle. "She is beautiful and elegant, and her inner beauty shines through when she is ultimately not afraid to embrace who she is with confidence and poise."

    From the sketch, the Elsa-inspired design does indeed look fit for a snow queen, with a sweetheart neckline and soft blue details. Plus, the dress will be available in both ivory and pale blue options.

    The acclaimed wedding brand already has a Disney Fairy Tale Bridal collection in conjunction with Disney Consumer Products. The 29-piece collection features gowns for aqueen princess with designs for Rapunzel, Sleeping Beauty and Ariel, to list a few.

    The fairy-tale wedding dress will be available January 2015.

  3. #123
    Forum Regular Fish1941's Avatar
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    Sure, she is also paying for Rumple killing Zelena (which activated the time portal), and Emma changing his history by bringing Marian back, but ultimately, it is, first and foremost, a consequence of a terrible choice made in a crucial moment of her life.

    Also, Rumpel will have to pay the price for killing Zelena. Emma will have to pay the price for changing the timeline, after Hook had warned her not to. And perhaps even Robin will have to pay the price for using magic in order to allow Marian to cheat death.

  4. #124
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    We know the Evil Queen was going to have Marian executed but do we know if she actually did it. If she did, there is no way I can see her having any type of relationship with Robin. That is not something you just brush off. If Marian somehow did survive the execution in the original timeline, the ripple effects of Emma taking her could be huge.

  5. #125
    Stranger Than Reality! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    We know the Evil Queen was going to have Marian executed but do we know if she actually did it. If she did, there is no way I can see her having any type of relationship with Robin. That is not something you just brush off. If Marian somehow did survive the execution in the original timeline, the ripple effects of Emma taking her could be huge.
    The whole thing creats a paradox whether in the original or new timeline. Regina never actually executed Marian because the future Emma had already rescued Marian which lead Robin to think she had died (think of it like Back to the Future: Part II, we didn't see it from Emma's perceptive the first time around).

  6. #126
    Custom Title Exedore's Avatar
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    But we know that Emma changed some things in the timeline - all that stuff involving Snow and David. That didn't occur in the original timeline as we saw it in the earlier seasons. It's not one of those scenarios where the time traveler doesn't change anything or that their actions were erased in the end. Nope. Emma caused changes and then tried to ensure that the new sequence of events still led to the same outcome at as far as her parents were concerned. But she decided to save Marian even though it might (did) change things. So Marian might have been executed in the original timeline (unless disappeared some other way that didn't involve Emma).
    Last edited by Exedore; 09-18-2014 at 05:23 PM.

  7. #127
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exedore View Post
    But we know that Emma changed some things in the timeline - all that stuff involving Snow and David. That didn't occur in the original timeline as we saw it in the earlier seasons. It's not one of those scenarios where the time traveler doesn't change anything or that their actions were erased in the end. Nope. Emma caused changes and then tried to ensure that the new sequence of events still led to the same outcome at as far as her parents were concerned. But she decided to save Marian even though it might (did) change things. So Marian might have been executed in the original timeline (unless disappeared some other way that didn't involve Emma).
    For all we know, Regina at the last minute let Marian go free. When Marian tried to return home to Robin, she died trying save someone. And now, that person who should have lived died because Marian wasn't there to save them.

  8. #128
    Lane&Kent fan liana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    For all we know, Regina at the last minute let Marian go free. When Marian tried to return home to Robin, she died trying save someone. And now, that person who should have lived died because Marian wasn't there to save them.
    I don't think we are ever going to know what happened in the original timeline, and it really doesn't matter. Whether Regina was responsible for Marian's death or not, when Emma changed the past that never actually happened.

    What we do know is that, for some reason, in the original timeline, Robin believed himself responsible for Marian's death, and never once blamed Regina for it. That means he didn't know she was taken prisonner by the Black Knights, and he did something that resulted on her being put in harm's way and being assumed to be dead. And considering Marian was taken prisonner the same day Emma was, and mentioned sometime apart from her family a d her family assuming she was dead, I'd say, for some reason, Marian did leave her family behind and chose to not let her know she was alive in the first place.

    I'm honestly much more curious about why Marian decided to let her family and friends believe her to be dead than if Regina did kill Marian or not in a time that never was. I don't think it matters, now that it never did happen.

    I wonder, though, if, somehow, when Emma and Hook changed the events surrounding Charming and Snow's first meeting, other things changed as well. For all we know, Marian might have been caught by the Black Knights because of Hooks and Emma's presence in the past.

    Regardless of what could have happened or not, if Regina did, in fact, killed Marian in the original timeline, Emma's actions saved her for being responsible for Marian's death. On the other hand, if Regina wasn't responsible, then Emma made her responsible for it in everyone's eyes.
    Last edited by liana; 09-19-2014 at 10:14 AM.

  9. #129
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liana View Post
    I don't think we are ever going to know what happened in the original timeline, and it really doesn't matter. Whether Regina was responsible for Marian's death or not, when Emma changed the past that never actually happened.
    Unless they do double flashbacks. One flashback that is the original timeline and and another for the alternate time line. But, that would be too convoluted so you are probably right that we will never know what really happened. It was just a ploy to create conflict for Robin and Regina and give an excuse for her turning to her old ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by liana View Post
    ...I'm honestly much more curious about why Marian decided to let her family and friends believe her to be dead than if Regina did kill Marian or not in a time that never was. I don't think it matters, now that it never did happen.

    I wonder, though, if, somehow, when Emma and Hook changed the events surrounding Charming and Snow's first meeting, other things changed as well. For all we know, Marian might have been caught by the Black Knights because of Hooks and Emma's presence in the past.

    Regardless of what could have happened or not, if Regina did, in fact, killed Marian in the original timeline, Emma's actions saved her for being responsible for Marian's death. On the other hand, if Regina wasn't responsible, than Emma made her responsible for it in everyone's eyes.
    It would be good to know why Marian left her family and the events of her capture. Right now, in everyone's eyes, Regina would have killed Marian so I don't understand why Robin would forgive her.

  10. #130
    Stranger Than Reality! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    Unless they do double flashbacks. One flashback that is the original timeline and and another for the alternate time line. But, that would be too convoluted so you are probably right that we will never know what really happened. It was just a ploy to create conflict for Robin and Regina and give an excuse for her turning to her old ways.



    It would be good to know why Marian left her family and the events of her capture. Right now, in everyone's eyes, Regina would have killed Marian so I don't understand why Robin would forgive her.
    Take away the idea that Regina killed Marian and consider that Marian may have faked her death...nether Robin nor Regina would have know about Marian. In any case Robin forgave her for her past deeds (Regina killed others before and after Marian. Does that make it less or more horrible?) Robin knew what he was getting into and they still formed a relationship.
    Last edited by darkphoenix21; 09-19-2014 at 05:57 AM.

  11. #131
    Lane&Kent fan liana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    Unless they do double flashbacks. One flashback that is the original timeline and and another for the alternate time line. But, that would be too convoluted so you are probably right that we will never know what really happened. It was just a ploy to create conflict for Robin and Regina and give an excuse for her turning to her old ways.
    Apparently, according to the creators, Regina is not going to "return to her old ways" (which does make me glad). One of the creators said recently that things don't work like that, and that Regina did evolve. But, for what I could understand, she will be tempted to, because there is still darkness inside her. And that I could live with. I'm tired of this old "one step forward, 10 steps back". It makes sense she would be tempted to do something, and then, changes her mind. What wouldn't make sense, would be her, all of sudden, just trying to kill Emma or Marian to have her "happy ending".

    Honestly, I think this is about parallels. They are making Regina go through the same path Emma and Snow had. First, it was the going back to the Enchanted Forest, separating Regina from her son, as Snow was once separated from Emma.

    Then, we had the Wiched Witch, going after Regina with same frivolous hate and thrist from revange Regina always had against Snow. We, then, had a new curse, with Regina having to deal with Henry seing her as a stranger. In this new curse, it turned out Regina becames the new "savior", with her kissing Henry to "break the curse", and using light magic to defeat the witch.

    And now, the man she fell in love with, her soulmate, has a wife, pretty much like David had one, back in season one, but with a twist (pretty much like the curse had one as well): this is a real marriage, while David's was one created by Regina. And, according to a new interview, Regina and Henry will also have an equivalente of "operation Cobra", just as Emma and Regina had in season 1.


    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    It would be good to know why Marian left her family and the events of her capture. Right now, in everyone's eyes, Regina would have killed Marian so I don't understand why Robin would forgive her.
    I think it's very hard to blame someone for killing your wife when your wife is right in front of you. And, let's not forget feelings don't work like that. Robin has always known who Regina was, and because the original events were changed, no one can know, for certain, if Marian would have died or not. In fact, for Robin, it would seem Marian didn't return to them because Emma chose to send her to the future.

    I don't think after getting this close to Regina, and possibly falling in love with her, he would, all of sudden, hate her for killing his wife when his wife is alive, well and returned to his arms. It is not that simple, IMO.
    Last edited by liana; 09-19-2014 at 07:15 AM.

  12. #132
    Custom Title Exedore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    For all we know, Regina at the last minute let Marian go free. When Marian tried to return home to Robin, she died trying save someone. And now, that person who should have lived died because Marian wasn't there to save them.
    The Regina of that time doesn't strike as someone who would forgive anyone or let someone go like that; not unless she believed (or was led to believe) it would help her eliminate Snow. But yeah I'd like to see them explore the ramifications (both positive and negative) of Emma saving Marian and bringing her into the present.


    Quote Originally Posted by liana View Post
    Regardless of what could have happened or not, if Regina did, in fact, killed Marian in the original timeline, Emma's actions saved her for being responsible for Marian's death. On the other hand, if Regina wasn't responsible, than Emma made her responsible for it in everyone's eyes.
    Still doesn't change the fact that Regina ordered her execution with the full intent of carrying it out. She basically aimed the gun and was about to pull the trigger when Emma pushed Marian out her way. It doesn't really change what Regina was at the time. But she has been making progress and Robin knew about her past and was still willing to move on with her. Hopefully TPTB won't forget that bit of characterization.


    Quote Originally Posted by liana View Post
    I'm honestly much more curious about why Marian decided to let her family and friends believe her to be dead than if Regina did kill Marian or not in a time that never was. I don't think it matters, now that it never did happen.
    Same here and not just that: I think the entire Robin Hood mythos needs more development. They dropped those characters into other stories but never fully developed their version of the Robin Hood legend. I'd like to see some of their stories in Sherwood Forest with the Sheriff of Nottingham and Prince John, Guy of Gisborne and all that stuff.
    Last edited by Exedore; 09-19-2014 at 07:28 AM.

  13. #133
    Lane&Kent fan liana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exedore View Post
    Still doesn't change the fact that Regina ordered her execution with the full intent of carrying it out. She basically aimed the gun and was about to pull the trigger when Emma pushed Marian out her way. It doesn't really change what Regina was at the time.
    I don't make any excuses for Regina. She was what she was. I have no doubts she would have killed whoever stood in the way of her revenge. We all know that. And the most likely scenario is that she would have killed Marian, if she believed she was helping Snow. Helping Snow was treason, in her twisted point of view, and she treated treason as any other monarch of her time would: with Death.

    She has done far worse, IMO. I cringe when I remembered what she did with Hans and Grettel. It would have been less evil to kill them and their families than to keep them from ever finding their father again. Sometimes, death isn't the worse thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exedore View Post
    But she has been making progress and Robin knew about her past and was still willing to move on with her. Hopefully TPTB won't forget that bit of characterization.
    Exactly. That is the main point here. I guess I just see that Emma's action created an alternate reality, and I don't see the point in dwelling about the moral implications of Regina being the "would be" murder of Marian. I mean, Rumple killed Belle's fiancé (regardless of her loving him or not). He also almost beat her father to death, and yet Belle forgave him. Hook aligned himself with Cora, who was willing to kill Emma and everyone who stood in her way of having her Family (Regina and Henry), and Emma is dating him.

    Those characters have forgiven because they saw the good things the "reformed" or "almost reformed" villain has done. So, yeah. I can see Robin forgiving Regina for "almost" killing Marian, because, after all, she did save his son's life in the past, and saved the entire town. She trusted him with her heart (the literal one), and didn't blame him when Zelena took it. He saw, first hand, she has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exedore View Post
    Same here and not just that: I think the entire Robin Hood mythos needs more development. They dropped those characters into other stories but never fully developed their version of the Robin Hood legend. I'd like to see some of their stories in Sherwood Forest with the Sheriff of Nottingham and Prince John, Guy of Gisborne and all that stuff.
    I don't think the writers are interested in the Robin Hood mythos, considering they didn't even bother in making the actor who plays the character a regular in the show. They are much more invested on the new shining toys and on Hook. But I agree that it would be nice to know more about them.

  14. #134
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liana View Post
    Apparently, according to the creators, Regina is not going to "return to her old ways" (which does make me glad). One of the creators said recently that things don't work like that, and that Regina did evolve. But, for what I could understand, she will be tempted to, because there is still darkness inside her. And that I could live with. I'm tired of this old "one step forward, 10 steps back". It makes sense she would be tempted to do something, and then, changes her mind. What wouldn't make sense, would be her, all of sudden, just trying to kill Emma or Marian to have her "happy ending".
    I am glad she won't turn to her old ways but it makes sense she will be tempted and perhaps even do questionable things. I remember reading somewhere the co-creators refer to her as an addict and the question isn't will she grab the bottle but will she drink from it. I think Emma knows this and will try to keep Regina falling off the wagon and from using dark magic again.

    Quote Originally Posted by liana View Post
    I think it's very hard to blame someone for killing your wife when your wife is right in front of you. And, let's not forget feelings don't work like that. Robin has always known who Regina was, and because the original events were changed, no one can know, for certain, if Marian would have died or not. In fact, for Robin, it would seem Marian didn't return to them because Emma chose to send her to the future.

    I don't think after getting this close to Regina, and possibly falling in love with her, he would, all of sudden, hate her for killing his wife when his wife is alive, well and returned to his arms. It is not that simple, IMO.
    I understand that Robin knew she was the Evil Queen and later fell in love with the reformed Regina. However, that doesn't change the fact that Regina had planned on killing Marian. It is only human to react differently when it is your wife that Regina intended to kill versus a total stranger. For me, it makes more sense he would be taken aback by this revelation versus no being bothered by it.
    Last edited by SteelyGal; 09-21-2014 at 06:52 AM.

  15. #135
    Forum Regular Rac80's Avatar
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    it's been a long summer (but not hot! ) I'm ready to return to Storybrooke!

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