Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Birds of Prey?"

[badraven]

Well, it was a MUCH better episode than last week's. The Huntress shined very bright in this one. I hope we see her again in S3. Oliver continues to make bad decisions and I hope he and his don't have to pay to high of a price for them. All in all a very good episode. And can't wait for next week.

[Who]

8 - The Huntress return was awesome. Liked the Huntress/Canary fights. Liked the moments between Helena and Oliver. Laurel and Canary had good moments as well. Laurel was great. Liked Felicity's line about not knowing who's secrets were supposed to be kept to who. Not so fond of the Thea/Roy stuff. It seemed like we had this before when Moira was trying to break them up. Maybe Slade will use this to put a wedge between Thea and the rest of the Queens, I don't know. Not sure why Oliver would have wanted to do this either as Thea seemed to be the only thing to keep a lid on Royrage. It would have been cool if Barbara Gordon showed up.

[Quark]

Really great episode. Sarah and The Huntress were great. The only thing that seemed a bit off for me was the scene where Roy and Thea broke up. He could of been a bit more subtle about it.

[NightHawk777]

I liked this one a lot.

I was hoping that they would bring back the Huntress, and this did not disappoint.
It was interesting how she seemed so different after her dad was dead, like the spirit of vengeance has left the building. Not sure what Ollie meant when he said he called in a favor for her. If she is lucky, she won't end up on that suicide squad with Waller.

The fights between her and Sara were good, 1 for 1. Sara was interesting on the island, what will her plan be to trade that engineer for Oliver? Slade won't go for that, but she probably knows that. It is always cool when she utilizes that sonic device and blows out all the windows.

Laurel is back, finally. It is peculiar that she can't recognize her own sister just because she is dressed like that. Did they not see each other in costumes when they were kids for halloween? I loved the interactions between Laurel and Helena.

Felicity & Diggle - it was fun watching their reactions when they realized Helena was coming back. Felicity wanted Sara to kick her u know what lol.

Roy - Ollie pressuring him to leave Thea? I don't get it. And Roy has to start using his brain, he is coming across as a lunk head lately. Maybe it's the mirakuru. Roy needs help dealing with it, and Thea was trying to help him. If Ollie thinks Roy is too dangerous to be around her, then he should remove himself from the family as well. hell, Slade is after them all because of Ollie, not Roy. If Roy had been there when Slade drives up, there would have been an epic battle. Roy will probably be in Royd Rage mode when he finds out about this.

Slade - He is probably going to take Thea home and hang out a little bit, just so Ollie can feel the danger. It seems unlikely he is simply kidnapping her. Not sure what the point of that would be. He has their entire house full of cameras. He can nab them anytime that is convenient.

[BkWurm1]

Laurel is back, finally.

Laurel is back and back in the exact same place she was before. Tell me, what was the point of her "journey"? I honestly didn't find her insisting that she was rehired all that "dark" I mean really, she could have just turned around and sued the pants off the city for what they did to her. So after weeks and weeks of IMO way too much focus on Laurel and her issues, she's right back to being the exact same person in the exact same job. I'm just retroactively frustrated by all the wasted plot time in the last 5-6 episodes.

I just have no idea what the show runners think they were showing. I can't see any hint that she's going to take up the mantle of the BC, that seems farther and farther from possible than ever, but do they think they have made her darker? Are they planning on turning her into some kind of semi-villain?

I was also super frustrated with how the writers shoehorned her back in with the hostages. It would have made a hundred times more sense for Sara to drag Laurel out and then go back with Oliver to rescue the hostages. It was absurd for Laurel to think she wouldn't be just making things worse and more complicated. I just can't get past the stupid.

The same applies with Oliver letting Thea leave by herself. He knows Slade is out there. If Thea insisted on alone time, follow her!!!!! Better yet, let Roy go on protecting her like he had been for weeks. How hard would it have been to write a reasonable explanation for what went down rather than letting super rich Thea WALK home at night from the bad part of town. It makes EVERYONE look stupid.

[Fletching]

The same applies with Oliver letting Thea leave by herself. He knows Slade is out there. If Thea insisted on alone time, follow her!!!!! Better yet, let Roy go on protecting her like he had been for weeks. How hard would it have been to write a reasonable explanation for what went down rather than letting super rich Thea WALK home at night from the bad part of town. It makes EVERYONE look stupid.

I'll add more to the stupid: A trained S.W.A.T. commander opens fire with a machine gun on six people in open ground and the only one he manages to kill is the hostage he was originally trying to protect. It would've been better if Officer Lance accidentally shot Frank Bertenelli.

I still found the episode entertaining and I liked the way each character had their beliefs (and identities) challenged.

[Rob14]

Okay episode, in my opinion. I actually liked Suicide Squad more, mainly because that's the only Diggle-centric episode this season. And in my opinion he desperately needed some screen time.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of the Huntress. It's not the actress, but more how the character has been written. After that whole "I'm gonna kill my dad 'cause he killed my fiancé under the mistaken impression that he was working for the FBI, when it was actually me all along" two-season-long ordeal, I just am having a really, really hard time imagining how she's going to become one of the good guys, or that Laurel, Sara, or anybody else who knows what she tried to do in Birds of Prey is ever going to trust her. (The writers have taken several liberties with the concept of believability this season, so who knows...) Beyond that, what's even the point in keeping the character around?

Oliver's decision to keep Roy away from Thea made little sense to me. I get that he's realizing Roy's not really managing his anger very well, but thus far the mere mention of Thea has worked for him. But now? Mentioning Thea to Roy is gonna piss him off even more! It'll remind Roy not of how much he loves Thea, but of how screwed she is because Oliver told him to break up with her for her own good. Granted, even Roy as he is probably wouldn't have lasted long against a highly experienced and capable fighter like Slade, but that's certainly better than nothing.

[costas22]

Laurel is back and back in the exact same place she was before. Tell me, what was the point of her "journey"? I honestly didn't find her insisting that she was rehired all that "dark" I mean really, she could have just turned around and sued the pants off the city for what they did to her. So after weeks and weeks of IMO way too much focus on Laurel and her issues, she's right back to being the exact same person in the exact same job. I'm just retroactively frustrated by all the wasted plot time in the last 5-6 episodes.

I just have no idea what the show runners think they were showing. I can't see any hint that she's going to take up the mantle of the BC, that seems farther and farther from possible than ever, but do they think they have made her darker? Are they planning on turning her into some kind of semi-villain?

I was also super frustrated with how the writers shoehorned her back in with the hostages. It would have made a hundred times more sense for Sara to drag Laurel out and then go back with Oliver to rescue the hostages. It was absurd for Laurel to think she wouldn't be just making things worse and more complicated. I just can't get past the stupid.

The same applies with Oliver letting Thea leave by herself. He knows Slade is out there. If Thea insisted on alone time, follow her!!!!! Better yet, let Roy go on protecting her like he had been for weeks. How hard would it have been to write a reasonable explanation for what went down rather than letting super rich Thea WALK home at night from the bad part of town. It makes EVERYONE look stupid.

Well said.

[Starsaber]

I was hoping that they would bring back the Huntress, and this did not disappoint.
It was interesting how she seemed so different after her dad was dead, like the spirit of vengeance has left the building. Not sure what Ollie meant when he said he called in a favor for her. If she is lucky, she won't end up on that suicide squad with Waller.

I think the favor he called in was so he could talk to her, not to get her released or her sentence reduced or anything like that. That being said, my first thought was that she would end up in the Suicide Squad.

[cloisornothing]

@Caught_In_The_Sun : Honestly, I prefer Huntress in Birds Of Prey than in her previous appearances ! I like how writers left the door open for her and future as member of Birds of Prey. But I agree about Sara. Never liked her, since her comeback from the dead, so predictable, so bold writing, this is so fake.

[cloisornothing]

Laurel is back and back in the exact same place she was before. Tell me, what was the point of her "journey"? I honestly didn't find her insisting that she was rehired all that "dark" I mean really, she could have just turned around and sued the pants off the city for what they did to her. So after weeks and weeks of IMO way too much focus on Laurel and her issues, she's right back to being the exact same person in the exact same job. I'm just retroactively frustrated by all the wasted plot time in the last 5-6 episodes.

I just have no idea what the show runners think they were showing. I can't see any hint that she's going to take up the mantle of the BC, that seems farther and farther from possible than ever, but do they think they have made her darker? Are they planning on turning her into some kind of semi-villain?

I was also super frustrated with how the writers shoehorned her back in with the hostages. It would have made a hundred times more sense for Sara to drag Laurel out and then go back with Oliver to rescue the hostages. It was absurd for Laurel to think she wouldn't be just making things worse and more complicated. I just can't get past the stupid.

Laurel wants to help the others, whatever the way! For her, being a lawyer drives her, but making her a vigilante won't be as quick as Miss Sara "Canary" ! It's NOT a stepback to where she was, it's another step in her journey as Black Canary as grounded as Oliver, just like Helena and Kate Spencer noticed! And since, Adam Donner was corrupted and set up Frank Bertinelli's trial and hostages crisis and what's coming up with Slade, she'll make a decision. I trust the writers and if you can't stand Laurel anymore, why are you still watching?

Semi villain? Certainly NOT! But a grey character like Sara and Oliver, sure!

[President_Luthor]

This was a pretty good episode, generally.

Laurel stood her ground when she wanted to stick with the Frank Bertinelli trial (of course, not knowing that she was an expendable pawn and it was an elaborate ruse to lure the Huntress out in the open). While it's natural that Team Arrow would want to warn her off the dangers of being in the trial via Sara, it's another case of where keeping secrets and telling lies is putting people in jeopardy. More on this later.

Laurel may have spent a few eps. too long in self-pity mode this season, but this is not the case this ep. Her story arc in the series is a slow-burn (I'm not expecting her to be Canary right now, I'll leave it at that), and while a case can be made that it's 'too' slow -- it's not a big issue with me -- I think the writers have a plan for her. It may be that this ep. they just wanted her to be the orbit of the Huntress and Sara/Canary. (I have had an issue with her being out of the loop on so many things this season, thanks to secrets and lies). We also need to remember that Ollie has been given the heads-up about Blood (who we now know is in thrall to Slade) by Laurel herself. So, it's not like Ollie suddenly realizes now that the city is in danger, just because Slade's in town. He's had fair warning.

Starling City has always been shades of grey and Laurel is no longer deluding herself about it. When you consider this in the context of her quid pro quo deal with the new D.A., she understands that surviving in this city will also involve a rough, elbows-out style of politicking. It's a slippery slope, no doubt, and Laurel's comment about inviting the darkness is a hint of things to come (likely next season in her case). Call it blackmail if you like, everyone else in a city full of corruption has made compromises and bent the rules -- Ollie himself spent much of S1 bending rules in a way society would frown upon. And in a sense even now, with members of the SCPD still viewing Team Arrow as a bunch of psycho, uncontrollable masked vigilantes.

Sara and Laurel were learning something from each other, which was good to see. When Laurel tried to help the Huntress, she was shut out. Only the death of Helena's father taught Helena what Ollie learned back in the S1 finale -- that killing as an end-game comes at a price and is no solution. The Huntress can now be put on the path to redemption in future eps.

Okay, back to secrets and lies. Ollie continues to play this game, with members of his own family(!). It was long past time Ollie pulled out the big brother card with Roy re: Thea. Roy is still struggling with the rage side-effects of mirakuru, as we saw this ep. Thea and Roy may be adults (barely), but on this front Ollie absolutely has an obligation to meddle and be more upfront with Thea. She has complete faith in him, she was practically begging him to be honest. Now was the time. Ollie chose not to -- we could debate about the many reasons he could justify not warning Thea (not to mention Moira) -- but I have a feeling we'll be bringing this Ollie oversight up again once the finale has aired.

What's puzzling is that he should have reached this conclusion re: truth/honesty ... since he decided not to shut out Sara on the same issue earlier this season. Slade was in their house, so the time for hedging and dithering is over. Slade knows him too well and the stakes are too high.

[bobraspet]

I enjoyed this episode as I enjoy most, however, I didn't think it held a candle to Suicide Squad. C'mon... more of Diggle's background, Suicide Squad and Deadshot, Harley Quinn cameo... hard to top. I really enjoyed the sneak peek we get for Deathstroke... that 1 second shot looked very reminiscent of the cover from Deathstroke the Terminator #1 comic book from back in the days. Awesome!

[BkWurm1]

Cloisornothing if you can't stand Laurel anymore, why are you still watching?

Because The show is called Arrow and Laurel is not an important enough character to ruin the whole show for me, at least not yet. So far I could fast forward her scenes if I chose and it would not hamper my understanding of the show and that frustrates me from a storytelling standpoint.

I am genuinely puzzled as to what the show runners think they accomplished by showing her hit bottom with her addiction only to return everything to normal now. Laurel was already living in a world full of shades of grey. Last season she urged her clients to accept money that the Arrow blackmailed his target for and to "not ask any questions". Plus the fact that she herself worked with the vigilante outside of the law...she already understood about the grey side of life. That is not a new revelation. Nor do I think finding out her father also sometimes worked with the Arrow would have messed with her head. She was the one last year telling her dad it was a good idea.

The only thing Laurel has done this season was stumble onto the truth about Blood only for Blood to pin blame on someone else and get away with it because Laurels addiction left her an untrustworthy source. She even accepted that she was an untrustworthy source so her "journey" isn't even about believing in yourself and pursuing the truth at any costs - they could have told that story sooooo easily but instead it seems like Laurel was dragged down for no reason at all. I just don't see what was accomplished or how her struggles made her stronger. If anything, she seems more fragile.

[evaba]

OK, I finally got myself together to write down my impressions of the "Birds of prey" episode. Overall I liked this episode better than the past Huntress episodes, and I think that's because Helena's story was more tightly interwoven with the stories of Ollie's two other main ladies, Sara and Laurel. I have tried to put my thoughts in some kind of order, dealing with the various characters separately.

Laurel: looking gorgeous and on her way to recovery

Can we take a moment and appreciate how lovely Laurel/Katie looked in this episode? I sincerely hope that Laurel's appearance in "Birds of prey" will put an end to all the speculation, slander and body shaming that we've been seeing far too much of in the "Arrow" fandom, maybe not on this forum, but on many other social media, including the show's official FB page. Laurel's month of daily AA meetings and her decision to take charge of her life is mirrored in her change of appearance, which is a pretty nice convergence between her physical appearance and her psychological state of mind at this point in the story.

As most old-time members of this forum know, I like Laurel and I think she is a valuable member of the cast as well as an interesting character in her own right.This means that my feelings about Laurel's storyline in this episode are predominantly positive. I think that several of her scenes showed how her character has evolved since the beginning of season two. During the run of episodes where Laurel was more or less constantly in her downward spiral we only rarely got to see things from her POV, something that IMHO was a weakness, because it made it less easy to empathize with her. We saw Laurel drink and take pills, but we didn't really get to hear her talk to anyone about her feelings or why she felt the need to drink etc. (though, knowing her current history it should be pretty obvious). We also saw her push away anyone who tried to help her and blaming her own misery on others, which in some people's eyes made her appear as self-centered and unreasonable. In this episode we finally got to an insight into Laurel's own feelings, both in her AA meeting speech and in her conversation with Helena. In both cases she acknowledged her own sense of guilt and desperation and how she pushed away those who tried to help her. To me this new sense of self-awareness puts her previous actions/behavior in a more positive light and shows that she is ready to take responsability for her own life situation. After all, it's easier to understand someone if we get an insight into their feelings.

I also liked her interaction with Sara/Canary in this episode. Some fans have complained about the fact that Laurel was unable to recognize her sister, despite the fact that they were sitting next to each other. I agree that it is a breach of verisimilitude, but I think this is just something you have to accept/disregard if you're watching a show based on a comic book source. As forum member "bbussey" wrote in a comment to an online review:

Villains simply don't recognize familiar faces behind vigilantes' masks. That's the way it is and has been since a certain Man of Steel first started using eyeglasses and a curl of hair as an identity concealer 70 years ago. That said, Canary used Arrow-like mannerisms to make it difficult for Laurel to see her face — staying in shadows, dipping her head, hiding behind her wig, turning away, and using the electronic voice.

I would say that with a little suspension of disbelief it is possible to buy that Laurel didn't recognize her own sister (despite her prominent cleft chin!), especially if we take into consideration that it wouldn't really serve the plot if Laurel discovered that Sara is Canary at this stage of the story (though I'm sure she will have figured things out by the end of the season). If fans can accept that Quentin hasn't figured out that Oliver is the Arrow yet, I think it's possible to give Laurel the benefit of a doubt rather than berating her for her stupidity or lack of eye sight...unless you think that Laurel should be judged more harshly than any other "Arrow" character..

It was also rather funny how the writers lampshaded this trope by letting Laurel and Sara talk about their sisters as if they were talking about someone else...Laurel because she is in the dark concerning Sara's double identity and Sara because she doesn't want Laurel to find out that she is the Canary. I also think that Laurel behaved in a manner that befits the comic book Black Canary in this episode-she wasn't content to let herself be saved by Sara. Instead she insisted that they should go back and try to help the other hostages, which gave us a nifty woman-to-woman Huntress/Canary fight and a moment of bonding between Laurel and Helena.

As for the final scene, where Laurel seems to go a bit dark, "blackmailing" Kate Spencer to give her back her job at the DA's office, I really don't understand the concern over this plot detail. I mean, her sister just threw a guy out of a window, possibly causing his death, and the only reaction we got from her Dad was that she should "take it a little more easy"! In comparison to this, I don't think that Laurel's actions or her comment about "the darkness inside" are that remarkable. The way I interpret this scene, the writers wanted to show us that Laurel has started to realize that there are grey zones even when it comes to the law, and that she sometimes has to go outside the law in order to get real justice (or in order to survive/get by).

Da Huntress: ruthless killer with Daddy issues

OK, I have to confess right from the start that Helena Bertinelli/the Huntress is not one of my favourite "Arrow" characters...I even believe that her first appearance caused me to write one of my first rants on this forum! I just find her motivation for going on a killing rampage much too flimsy...so her Dad killed her beloved fiancé, but is that really an excuse for killing dozens of mafiosos as well as quite a few innocent policemen? And I really don't understand why the writers sometimes present her in a way that makes me feel like we're supposed to empathize with her (e.g. in her final scene with Oliver). On the other hand, I tell myself that it's just television and that the Huntress is a pretty cool anti-heroine. In fact, I think her ability to create havoc makes her an interesting character, because she sets so many things in motion. Of course, she didn't get the satisfaction of putting her Dad to death (Robocop took care of that!), but I'm still glad he's dead and I hope that he stays dead. I'm not sure what will happen to Helena, but I would bet a few dollars that she will somehow get out of jail and return in season three for another "Birds of prey" episode! One final comment: some fans complained about Helena giving her Dad a long speech about how he ruined her life, rather than killing him right away. This is a valid objection from a Real World perspective. However, the "Arrow" writers love their (melo)dramatic tropes/clichés, and this kind of behavior is so common in fiction that it even has its own name: "because you suck"!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheReasonYouSuckSpeech

Sara: from assassin to heroine

According to Marc Guggenheim Sara would start her transformation to becoming a hero in this episode, and by this I guess he meant that she will learn to choose less lethal methods than the ones she was taught to use in the League of Assassins. I understand that the writers want to make Sara's journey resemble Oliver's, who also mellowed with time and started to adapt himself to a civilian life and who adopted a M.O. that is more humane and more befitting for a real hero. In fact, it sometimes feels as though the writers have made Sara more or less a female replica of Oliver. However, in my eyes they haven't given her the screen time or the story material that made Oliver's journey so fascinating. In the first episodes of "Arrow" Oliver was truly scary, in the sense that you could feel how his Island experiences had transformed him from a careless, spoiled douchebag into an emotion-less killing machine. Sara is supposed to have undergone the same transformation, but I have a hard time regarding her as a ruthless assassin, no matter how many "tough girl" lines they give her. To me she seems to be roughly the same person, whether she's supposed to be a hardened assasin or the long-lost sister who is trying to reconnect with her family...there just aren't that many nuances to her character portrayal IMHO.

I don't want to blame the actress, because Caity has really not been given the chance to grow into her role or establish a sense of familiarity with her co-actors, unlike the rest of the "Arrow" regulars. That may have made her less able to portray Sara in an (IMHO) convincing manner....and I'm not talking about the action/fight scenes which are very good, but the dramatic parts/scenes, which in reality take up most of her screen time. In the end it's probably just a case of personal preferences and opinions.. I have a problem with Sara's character portrayal, like some forum members have a problem with Laurel's character portrayal. Despite this, I don't want Sara to die or disappear from the show, and I hope the writers won't go down that route. I don't think Slade has to kill Sara to get his revenge (which seems to be what many fans expect him to do). As for Laurel's expected transition to Black Canary, I think it can be accomplished without Sara dying AGAIN. Both Oliver and Laurel have been through enough pain and heartbreak to last them a life time and they don't deserve to lose Sara after having been reunited with her for such a short time. Tommy dying in season one was bad enough and IMHO there's no need to pile the disasters on their path in order to make them superheroes. So, if the writers could find a way to keep Sara alive, and maybe even give her a recurring role, I would be quite happy.

Roy Harper and Thea: fifty ways to leave your lover...

Honestly, has anyone counted how many times Roy and Thea have broken up by now? It just seems that the writers can't give this couple a decent storyline, so when they don't know what to do with them (and when it fits the plot), they make them break up. This time it was Oliver's somewhat hypocritical and inconsistent advice to stay out of Thea's life that made Roy break up with Thea. Of course, Roy has never been a very smart or subtle guy, so he just walks up to Thea and tells her he doesn't love her anymore, which is bound to make her suspect that there must be some other reason behind his sudden decision, especially since he gave her a bracelet just a few days ago! And then Roy does something ever more stupid...he hooks up with some random blonde just to estrange Thea even more. Sorry about the sarcasm, but sometimes the writing for this couple is SO heavyhanded that it hurts! This kind of sad, because I really like Thea, and I want her to get a good storyline that will give her more to do than being Roy's girlfriend. Although the final scene with her and Slade Wilson looked rather ominous, I'm still kind of excited, because it will hopefully bring her into the thick of the action.

I have to stop here! Despite my complaints I think this was an enjoyable episode and I gave it an 8/10.