Page 71 of 71 FirstFirst ... 21616768697071
Results 1,051 to 1,065 of 1065
  1. #1051
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 14
    Posts
    835
    The writers of the Berlantiverse tend to take different aspects of a particular character and mash them together to come up with their own take, they especially do this with decades old characters who've had multiple versions over the years.

    Over on the Flash this mashup tendency shows up with the villains a lot. This season's Dr Alchemy is a definitely a mix of Mr Element and Dr A.. I have a compelling theory about Dr Alchemy, but I will save that for The Flash boards.

    I have no real opinion on the Arrow's writers failure to deliver a compelling Black Canary, other than to say they probably just didn't want to.

  2. #1052
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 13
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,127
    Haggard, your rant was well said and I agree with all of it!
    I don't want to steal Haggard's thunder, but maybe you were referring to my reply to your post? It could be the case, since I was the only one who was ranting in this particular thread!

    Anyway, I think we can all agree that the "Arrow" writers didn't do Laurel/BC any justice, which must be a disappointment for long-time BC fans like yourself. I became aware of the comics after I started watching the show, so I didn't have any specific expectations...I just thought Laurel was an interesting character with all her backstory with Oliver and Tommy and the Queen/Merlyn families.

    I didn't expect Laurel to become BC right away, and my frustration with her treatment really started in season two, when she seemed to circulate in her own orbit in relation to Oliver and the team, something which reinforced the (IMHO exclusionary and exaggerated) sentiment among some fans that the "real" and "original/originary" team are Oliver/Felicity/Diggle (which caused some of them to treat Laurel as an unwanted imposter once she put on the mask). I understand that the writers wanted to give Laurel a crucible similar to Oliver and Sara. However, although I appreciated Katie's portrayal of Laurel's trials in season two, I feel that they saddled her with a substance abuse arc that actually undermined her chances of acceptance as a masked hero, especially when Sara arrived on the scene as some ready-made BC substitute. Laurel's marginalization in seasons three and four only reinforced the impression that the producers/writers weren't really invested in giving the Black Canary fans a chance to see her blossom on screen. So, in a way it was maybe better for Laurel's character (and Katie!) to move on, especially since there is still no guarantee that the show will ever fully recover from the season four trainwreck.
    Last edited by evaba; 10-19-2016 at 03:35 PM.

  3. #1053
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 14
    Location
    Some where in the Untied States
    Posts
    1,286
    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I don't want to steal Haggard's thunder, but maybe you were referring to my reply to your post? It could be the case, since I was the only one who was ranting in this particular thread!
    No worries, since I think it's your post anyway. Mine, just doesn't make much sense since I didn't post much outside a few old interviews so yea don't worry about stealing my thunder on that one.

  4. #1054
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    The Clocktower
    Posts
    3,771
    Oh man, I did mean your rant, Evaba! Forgive me for skimming too quickly and getting my posters mixed up! I absolutely agree that seadon two was where they went off course with Laurel and the writers threw in that substance abuse arc when they weren't committed to doing that story justice. And I think that's the biggest problem. These writers lost interest in telling stories for Laurel. Personally, I think we're better off with her off the show than getting our hopes up only to get half hearted stories for her. I just kerp hoping that the DCEU will introduce a Black Canary and do her justice. Pun intended.

  5. #1055
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    1,876
    Speaking of 'lost interest' in writing stories for Laurel: tonight, they introduce Laurel's male replacement, also a vigilante, who will apparently have stories about how they balance their job and their night time activities.

    I am getting ready to do a video tonight that, instead of being a review, will be asking the question: "Is Marc Guggenheim a closet misogynist?" What's been done to Laurel, to Sara, and even to Felicity will crop up as evidence.

  6. #1056
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 14
    Location
    Some where in the Untied States
    Posts
    1,286
    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Speaking of 'lost interest' in writing stories for Laurel: tonight, they introduce Laurel's male replacement, also a vigilante, who will apparently have stories about how they balance their job and their night time activities.

    I am getting ready to do a video tonight that, instead of being a review, will be asking the question: "Is Marc Guggenheim a closet misogynist?" What's been done to Laurel, to Sara, and even to Felicity will crop up as evidence.
    Look forward to it.

  7. #1057
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    The Clocktower
    Posts
    3,771
    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Speaking of 'lost interest' in writing stories for Laurel: tonight, they introduce Laurel's male replacement, also a vigilante, who will apparently have stories about how they balance their job and their night time activities.

    I am getting ready to do a video tonight that, instead of being a review, will be asking the question: "Is Marc Guggenheim a closet misogynist?" What's been done to Laurel, to Sara, and even to Felicity will crop up as evidence.
    Who says his misogyny is closeted? It seems pretty upfront and obvious to me!

  8. #1058
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 13
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,127
    who says his misogyny is closeted? It seems pretty upfront and obvious to me!
    Slay!!!!

  9. #1059
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    1,876
    So, tonight, I decided I wanted to rewatch some of the episodes of Season 4, including "Eleven Fifty-Nine". I logged into my Netflix account, selected Season 4, moved along the episode listings to the latter portion. The cursor hovered over "Eleven Fifty-Nine"... and I found I couldn't do it. I couldn't select this episode, or the episodes directly before and after it. I have only ever found myself unable to watch a specific episode of a show once before, when I was 13. My mother and I loved the "Inspector Morse" series from the BBC and the final mystery for the series ended with Morse dying from a heart attack. I couldn't watch that mystery at all for years, and even now I dither about doing so, because I know a character I came to love, a character whose tragedies and triumphs had moved me, was going to die by the end of that episode.

    Its the same case with Laurel. I hadn't realized just how much her character arcs had moved me, how much I had invested in her as a character, beyond any BS romantic nonsense, not until now.

    Clearly I'm gonna still take a while before I'm able to watch that episode in full.

  10. #1060
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    The Clocktower
    Posts
    3,771
    I stopped watching right before that episode aired and haven't been able to watch an episode since. Personally, I stopped caring about who Oliver ended up with around season 2. (Though I actually thought that Sariver has made the most sense out of all potential Oliver pairings) I just became invested in Laurel's story arc and it's just a shame that she spent a year as BC trying to prove herself only to die in the manner she did. If it had been a heroic death, I might have been able to watch and gain some closure. For an example, I adored Jo and Ellen Harvelle on SPN and I've been able to watch the episode where they died more than once because they both went out in badass ways fitting of their characters. What I've heard of 11:59 sounds like the writers tried to come up with the crummiest death possible and had no care about whether or not it was a fitting end to the character's story. And though she was a supporting character, good storytelling would give even supporting characters a sensible story ending. It feels as though most of the characters on the show have stories and characterizations that flip flop based on what the writers want for Oliver's story.

  11. #1061
    Thank you Smallville harryandginnyfanatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 07
    Posts
    7,083
    It sucks how she was treated in the end. Especially after going through all that hell.

    Losing her sister. Losing Tommy. Fighting her addiction. No one believing her about Sebastian Blood. Losing her sister again. People telling her she wasn't good enough to be Black Canary.

    She goes through all that just to die? What the hell, Arrow writers?

  12. #1062
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 10
    Posts
    3,445
    It has been so long that I've posted anything on this site, I almost forgot my password. LOL The only reason I checked back in was to see why they brought Laurel or a version of Laurel back and what direction they plan for her. I did watch the Supergirl/Arrow crossover but not this past week's episode or any other episode this season. So far, the direction Arrow has for Black Canary will not entice me back anytime soon.

    I don't understand how the writers can say they ran out of stories for Laurel, yet say Green Arrow has to have Black Canary. They had Black Canary! And they killed her! There were so many interesting stories to tell about Laurel and come up with reasons for her skills improving at a rapid pace. Once they chose to kill off the 'Real' Black Canary, the Black Canary story line should have been left buried with her.

    I'm fine with writers wanting to put their own spin on an old story as long as the core of the story remains intact. Green Arrow's core is a vigilante superhero who fights crime using a bow and arrow whose road to becoming a superhero started from being stranded on a remote island. Take away his core and he is not the Green Arrow. Same holds true for Black Canary.

    Since it appears they had a change of heart and want Black Canary on the show again, Black Canary should remain Dinah Laurel Lance. If the re-telling of her story is she is from a different Earth, so be it. But, keep the core of her story the same. However, if they make Tina Boland the new Black Canary, the show is not interested in a true retelling of Dinah Laurel Lance.
    Last edited by SteelyGal; 01-27-2017 at 11:31 PM.

  13. #1063
    Forum Whiz
    Join Date
    Sep 14
    Location
    Hell's Kitchen, Germany
    Posts
    974
    I'm somebody that can get behind tieing a name to a persona, I can't really see anybody but Matt Murdock wearing Daredevil's mask or Bruce Banner as the Hulk, Clark Kent as Superman or Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry, but is it really Dinah Laurel Lance that makes Black Canary? Get a blind liberal lawyer with strong catholic ties and name her Janice Bateman and I could still buy it for the most part, it's just the name and gender swap would be such a joke on those TELLING the story that I'd most likely get bored rather quickly with their take of the story. The belief something so mundane can have any sort of impact when everything else is an exact copy is laughable. The same holds true holding onto a name, gender and even race when almost everything else is different which includes the persona name.

  14. #1064
    New In Town SwingingSpidey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 14
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    7
    I stopped watching Arrow the episode they killed Laurel off and haven't seen one since (including crossovers and 'Laurel's' return). I still can't believe they did that. I won't be back until she is back on the show for good and actually respected by Marc Guggenheim and the other writers and not some background character like she was in S3 and 4.

  15. #1065
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 10
    Posts
    3,445
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    I'm somebody that can get behind tieing a name to a persona, I can't really see anybody but Matt Murdock wearing Daredevil's mask or Bruce Banner as the Hulk, Clark Kent as Superman or Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry, but is it really Dinah Laurel Lance that makes Black Canary? Get a blind liberal lawyer with strong catholic ties and name her Janice Bateman and I could still buy it for the most part, it's just the name and gender swap would be such a joke on those TELLING the story that I'd most likely get bored rather quickly with their take of the story. The belief something so mundane can have any sort of impact when everything else is an exact copy is laughable. The same holds true holding onto a name, gender and even race when almost everything else is different which includes the persona name.
    The latest Fantastic Four is an example of retelling a story but keeping the core. In this version, Johnny and Susan Storm are not biological brother and sister, but they are adoptive brother and sister. The family dynamic of being and treating each other as brother and sister is still there. Oliver Queen's relationship with the Black Canary is with Dinah Lance; not whomever is calling themselves Black Canary. If they were not going to have Dinah Lance as the Black Canary, they should have never introduced her on the show. Once they did, Black Canary should be Dinah Lance. Anyone else should be given a different superhero name.

Page 71 of 71 FirstFirst ... 21616768697071

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •