View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharingan View Post
    Judging from the title of this episode I really didn't expect this episode to be the best of the season (so far)

    Malcolm recovering from the Lazurus Pit?!?

    Not sure about how Thea being his daughter plays importance except add more drama to the whole thing.

    Felicity and Oliver moments are soooooo goood..... whyyyyy must it be sooo goood....?! I want more yet kinda feel scared at the same time. We ultimately know Oliver must end up with Laurel...but the sad thing is knowing nothing will come out of this Felicity and Oliver relationship and if they screw it up we'll be all over this.
    In regards to Thea's being Malcolm's daughter: Moira betrayed Malcolm by revealing the Undertaking only hours from its completion, resulting in his need to go underground. He lost his son because Tommy tried to help Laurel get out of the Glades. Oliver and Moira together, in Malcolm's mind, contributed to his son being in the Glades and thus to his death. This, I'd guess, would be how Malcolm absolves himself of any guilt. Now, Malcolm, he could kill Moira and Oliver, but kidnapping Thea and claiming her as his heir? That would be the ultimate vengeance against the Queens in his mind. And I am now certain that in the episode 'Three Ghosts' Malcolm's Dark Archer persona will return to menace Oliver.... that or he's going to show up for Christmas dinner. Not sure which one I'd be more freaked out by if I were Oliver.

  2. #32
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    First post and glad to join you guys!

    The episode was great, as we have seen most of the show. The last scene was rather awkward. I mean, who could have expected Ollie's mother to get away with the killing? Or even more susurprisingly Thea to be actually Malcolm's daughter? Can we expect Tomy to be back again later in the show??? That's a possiblity.

    But hey, Oliver was suspecting something more into the Verdict. Who knows, we could see him hunting the Black Archer once again.

  3. #33
    New In Town Qutayba7's Avatar
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    An awful lot of enemies seem to know Oliver's alter-ego at this point. I would think it would be more dangerous to keep his friends and family in the dark. They need to be alert and aware of their surroundings, not clueless and vulnerable. At a certain point, killing anyone who finds him out will start to become impractical.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    That's why I said "no DIRECT intention." I believe it occured to him that Dent would have to die to save that child. But Batman tackling him wasn't about killing him, it was all about saving that child. Unlike what Oliver did. His intention was to end Vertigo when he shot him with those other arrows. That's why your comparison isn't appropriate. And that's the difference between a kill and a murder.
    One word Prometheus wikipedia it and see what happened to him!
    Haven't seen the episode but thoroughly understand why Oliver would do this, only problem is that it also means he will kill Malcolm when they next match up since Malcolm will definitely be threatening Thea to force the issue!
    Last edited by hopeless; 11-21-2013 at 02:55 AM.

  5. #35
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Holy crap that ending!!!



    I was on my way to give this episode an 8, but Malcolm's return prompted me to give it a 9 for the first time this season. Random thoughts:

    - Obviously Malcolm's return was a shock. I heard they might bring him back, but the show did a fantastic job of keeping it under wraps. Barrowman's name wasn't in the credits and no one reported anything about him shooting a scene. I don't know how frequently we'll see him from now on but I'm guessing very sporadically. Thea has to meet daddy though. I wonder how they'll explain his survival. The Lazarus Pit? Maybe the stuff Ivo was looking for at the submarine? Or maybe he just faked his death.

    - I liked the progression of the island arc. Slade isn't looking too good and who knows what the dynamic between those four will be like.

    - I admit I wasn't a fan of Oliver killing again. It's one of those situations where the writers like to put the hero in a no win situation. Similar to Man of Steel.. I just hope it was a one off.

    - The Olicity scenes were loaded with chemistry.

    - I didn't mind Laurel as much as I thought I would in this episode. It just feels like her character isn't headed anywhere right now.
    Last edited by costas22; 11-21-2013 at 03:10 AM.

  6. #36
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    Killings and damsels in distress

    Actually, if I recall correctly, Ollie has already broken his "no-killing" code twice already in season two. The first time was when he was taking down the Mayor's men in the Glades in "Crucible" and the other was in the last episode, when he rescued Diggle from the Russian prison. I'm not saying that he personally put arrows in them, but people did die, at least in the prison escape. Now, these men may not count because they are Russians or ghetto gang bangers. However, if we follow that line of reasoning, Count Vertigo doesn't really count either, because we all know that he is a bat sh*t crazy drug dealer (I hope you noticed my verbal pun here people!). I think we just have to accept that the "no-killing" policy will be violated when it suits the plot and that Oliver has never really dealt with his own murderous past (the "I don't kill because I want to honor my best friend" shtick doesn't really cut it for me, sorry!). In this case I actually didn't mind, because I think it was time that Count Vertigo was taken out for good..I was getting really tired of his histrionics and the whole Vertigo drug thing.

    However, the Felicity as "damsel in distress" scenario was one of the many things that bothered me in this episode. I don't mind Oliver playing his role as superhero and saving the women in his life every once in a while. What bothers me a bit is the double standards of some Olicity fans and the cliché manner that the "Arrow" writers are handling the storylines of their female characters. As for the double standards-well, Olicity fans have been complaining that Laurel is but a mere "love interest" and "damsel in distress" ever since Felicity was introduced...while Felicty is the better girl because she has agency and helps the hero in his mission. However, when their OWN fave was put in the same stereotypical DID role as Laurel, my impression was that many of them were giddy with happiness (the infamous ""feels"!) to see Oliver come to the rescue of his (soon to be) beloved! I'm not trying to slam the Olicity fans here, I just want to point out that Felicity is not more immune to "damselification" than any other female character on "Arrow", at least in the eyes of us who don't watch the show through Olicity shipping goggles.

    The way I see it, the Arrow writers are just repeating roughly the same formula that they used for Laurel is season one: Laurel gets entangled in one of Oliver's missions and he has to save her from some villain who is threatening her life. Sometimes he loses it and almost kills someone (e.g. the Declan case in Iron Heights prison) and sometimes he takes down dozens of bodyguards to save her. Now that Felicity by popular demand has somewhat taken over the role of close friend/ love interest (at least in the eyes of the fans!), she's getting the same treatment. Oliver saves Felicity and kills someone for her sake and then we get the ensuing "Olicity moment" (holding hands, "deep glances" etc). I personally don't feel any romantic chemistry between Oliver and Felicity, but since I have more or less given up on the Laurel/Oliver romance, I really don't mind of the Olicity shippers get their "moments". Felicity is a likeable and well-liked character, but I don't think the (eventual) Felicity/Oliver romance will be any less stereotypical than what we've seen with Laurel or any of Oliver's other "love interests". These are just my two cents, I hope you won't be jumping all over me for this!

    I have a few more things to say about this ep, but I have to leave that for later!

    P.S. I'm a bit of a fangirl myself, so the talk about "feels" was not meant to be derogatory-in fact, I get them myself sometimes!
    Last edited by evaba; 11-21-2013 at 07:35 AM.

  7. #37
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Okay, I'm going to weigh in here. First, Dagenspear, a question: if someone YOU cared about, friend or family, was in danger from a lunatic, are you telling me your first thought would not be to kill said lunatic? If someone were threatening a close friend or family member of mine, I would kill them. And Oliver's training kicked in; hat trick to the chest is the most assured method, especially since he had not been killing until recently. Oliver's emotions were plain: he didn't like what he had just done; but a friend was in danger. I think you need to realize that when his friends/family are on the line, Oliver's new-found morality is definitely going to be put to the test and its doubtful that he's going to just capture them. I would also point out that there were people on this forum (not sure if you were one of them) about how Oliver did this dramatic one-eighty of not killing without any setbacks. I'd call this a setback. It's realistic, which in case you've forgotten, is the edge that makes Arrow one of the best shows on TV right now.
    It's not. It's declined in quality a little. It's more entertaining though, so that's a plus. And no, I can't say that I would. Especially if the person was already incapacitated, like Vertigo was when Oliver pumped him with two more arrows. Although it's funny that you bring up how "realistic" this show's supposed to be, because in a "realistic" world by "realistic" standards Oliver, the serial murderer, is a criminal and a sociopath who should be locked in prison for the rest of his life. I assume you agree based on your desire and apparent admiration for realism.

  8. #38
    New In Town Mikael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    It's not. It's declined in quality a little. It's more entertaining though, so that's a plus. And no, I can't say that I would. Especially if the person was already incapacitated, like Vertigo was when Oliver pumped him with two more arrows.
    Declined? I guess that's why many critics and fans think it keeps getting better and better right?

    Is 'Arrow' the Best Live-Action Superhero Show Ever?: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...-action-654261


    Regarding Count Vertigo, Ollie shot more than one arrow just in case (sometimes one is not enough), but it seems you care more about keeping dangerous criminals alive than the victims.
    If you really think Ollie is a criminal, then why you keep watching? I stop watching Agents of Shield a few weeks ago, now I don't have to tolerate its campiness and mediocrity, I have better things to do than to waste my time with bad tv shows.

    Back on topic, another great episode, specially with that incredible ending. I think Malcolm survived thanks to the super serum healing factor, unless he was healed with the Lazarus pit like some have said.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    Actually, if I recall correctly, Ollie has already broken his "no-killing" code twice already in season two. The first time was when he was taking down the Mayor's men in the Glades in "Crucible" and the other was in the last episode, when he rescued Diggle from the Russian prison. Now, these men may not count because they are Russians or ghetto gang bangers. However, if we follow that line of reasoning, Count Vertigo doesn't really count either, because we all know that he is a bat sh*t crazy drug dealer (I hope you noticed my verbal pun here people!). I think we just have to accept that the "no-killing" policy will be violated when it suits the plot and that Oliver has never really dealt with his own murderous past (the "I don't kill because I want to honor my best friend" shtick doesn't really cut it for me, sorry!). In this case I actually didn't mind, because I think it was time that Count Vertigo was taken out for good..I was getting really tired of his histrionics and the whole Vertigo drug thing.
    For the Russians, was he the one who actually triggered the coat bomb? And I don't remember if it was confirmed that he killed any of the Mayor's men rather than just disabling them.

  10. #40
    Forum Regular Kdude22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
    Regarding Count Vertigo, Ollie shot more than one arrow just in case (sometimes one is not enough).
    makes me think of Pacific Rim where they checked if the Kaiju was dead. "I think it's dead, but... let's check for a pulse." *shoots 3 plasma cannons shots into monsters chest* "No pulse." Lol

    Not gonna lie, I figured Ollie would kill him, I'd have done the same. The way I see it, Ollie is just as much a trained assassin as Sarah is; you can't just turn that off, though he's done a great job of doing so till this point. I liked when he told felicity that there was never a choice in whether he would save her or not. At that point I was like "Did you see how fast he shot those arrows felicity?! He didn't even hesitate!!" Lol

  11. #41
    New In Town Mikael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kdude22 View Post

    Not gonna lie, I figured Ollie would kill him, I'd have done the same. The way I see it, Ollie is just as much a trained assassin as Sarah is; you can't just turn that off, though he's done a great job of doing so till this point. I liked when he told felicity that there was never a choice in whether he would save her or not. At that point I was like "Did you see how fast he shot those arrows felicity?! He didn't even hesitate!!" Lol
    Indeed, and he gave the Count a couple of chances, so one less psycho to deal with. People whining about this are too idealistic, this is not about the ideal solution, but saving people from dangerous criminals, even if you have to kill to get it done.

  12. #42
    Forum Regular badraven's Avatar
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    Amazing. Flat amazing. This season just keeps getting better! And next...Barry Allen. (Too bad he looks like a high school student but whattcha gonna do?)

  13. #43
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkphoenix21 View Post
    Back during the season 1 finale there was speculation that we would see Malcolm again...didn't see it coming in is manner. So Tommy was in fact a step-brother to Oliver and half-brother to Thea...look out OuaT's Charming family you have some stiff messed up family competition.
    He wasn't Ollie's step-brother since Malcolm and Moira weren't married; If they were than they would be step-brothers.

  14. #44
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    okay, i have rewatched this episode. truthfully, during the first watching of the episode, I thought it felt a little flat. The last 10 minutes saved the episode for me. I was in shell shock. I did not like the Felicity 'damsel in distress". I would have imagined her character responding to being captured by the Count to be more defiant, and less girly girly. A few things also struck me as interesting:
    1. Why was Oliver or Laurel not asked to testify. Oliver pre-warned Laurel to stay out of the Glades. Clearly, he knew what was going to happen.
    2. When Oliver returned to the trial, he was visibly shaken by the event of killing the count. he even flinched when Thea touched his wound. in previous episodes, hwe did not see a physical reaction to his injuries.
    3. Laurel is an emotional mess. I really hope the writers get her to the point where she gets help - either by hitting rock bottom or by just admitting she is not coping.
    4. Malcolm must really love Moira. I did not hear his last line clearly. I thought he said "Thea isn't my daughter".
    5. Oliver will do anything to protect the ones he loves.

  15. #45
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    I was thinking the whole time that Malcolm faked his death - what he said about "death is an illusion" confirmed it. I also think Oliver knew that so he didn't lie to Tommy but he's still not to being truthful to his friends Diggle and Felicity.
    Last edited by brbo70; 11-21-2013 at 10:29 AM.

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