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Thread: Black Canary

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaltor View Post
    You lack imagination JDBentz. I'm not saying Laurel will become Black Canary in this series. But if she were to somehow be trained by this Black Canary, show it in one ep and then 8 episodes later she is that good? She already had training. And every episode is sometimes a day or two or weeks. And lets face it, it does not take weeks of training to use a sonic device .
    Actually, those insisting that Laurel is the Black Canary and not entertaining the thought that Sara might be the actual one rather than the tease are the ones who 'lack imagination'. I was expressing a differing point of view to give 'food for thought', as I stated. Perhaps you should read a post thoroughly and understand every aspect of it before leveling baseless accusations? This is a theory I have postulated before to give food for thought, and I still have a rather amiable 'relationship' with evaba, who is a fan of Laurel. Evaba makes several good points, and I'm not saying I would be against Laurel becoming the Canary one day. But right now, their plan is for a five year run. Oliver and Sara are able to fight multiple enemies at once. Laurel has had trouble dealing with one (as seen in "An Innocent Man"). If the show runs longer than five years (and considering the fanbase, I'd say its got a more-than-decent possibility of doing so) than yes, I can see Laurel becoming the Canary.

    Let me be clear: the fault with the Laurel issue is with the writers of the storyline. Laurel has never struck me as a particularly deep character. In fact, she is very much her parents' daughter. The way she reacts when she 'realizes' that Tommy's death is 'her fault' is very reminiscent of Dinah Lance's reaction in "Salvation" once Laurel finds the girl who was supposedly Sara and Dinah reveals that she knew Sara was going with Oliver. There are moments where the character of Laurel has great depth, but the writers don't seem to want to explore it. Considering that they've stated that they're not holding any ideas back when they come up with them, I can only make my comments based on the 'facts at hand', as it were. The 'facts at hand' suggest Laurel might have been the teaser Canary rather than her sister, but that doesn't mean its completely true. I just hope the writers do the character justice, regardless of whether Laurel was just the tease or if Sara is the tease.

  2. #17
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    im satisfied with the current Canary. I like the sonic 'scream' device. surely v grounded indeed. Canary (sara) was trained by Ras Al Ghul, this is VERY INTERESTING. for a moment I tot the black hood is Malcom. each episode is getting more interesting. I wanna see how oliver reacts when he find out Sara is still alive.

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    Examples from Smallville. Jimmy Olson didn't turn out to be the person we thought he was supposed to be. And Chloe used "Lois Lane" as her pen name.

    So maybe their parents swapped their names when they were kids, as some kind of safety precaution. Sara's real name is actually Dinah Laurel, and Laurel's real name is actually Sara. Or maybe they swap names later. Or Canary uses her sister's name as a pen name.

  4. #19
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    JD, I was actually thinking the same thing. Since almost everyone's expecting Laurel to become the Black Canary, I could see the show changing directions and having something happen to Laurel so this Black Canary continues on. I've got mixed feelings on that route, though I do agree that the writing for Laurel has not been great, particularly this season.

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    maybe its not laurel's turn yet ? haha. anyway Caity Lotz is Damn Hot in that canary suit hahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    JD, I was actually thinking the same thing. Since almost everyone's expecting Laurel to become the Black Canary, I could see the show changing directions and having something happen to Laurel so this Black Canary continues on. I've got mixed feelings on that route, though I do agree that the writing for Laurel has not been great, particularly this season.
    That's another point to think about. Everyone's expecting Laurel because her first real name is 'Dinah'. But as the writers and/or producers have said themselves, they don't do things the way we all would think. I've been on the fence as far as the Sara v Laurel issue on who is going to be the Canary. If they can do it believably, I'm fine with Laurel taking over. But I just can't see them doing it right unless this series lasts more than the five planned seasons, and they're only planning for five at the moment. In the end, I can only presume that Laurel is the 'teaser Canary' and they're making us think that she might still have a chance. But I just don't see her as being good for it. However, if the writers turn Laurel's story arc around throughout this season and the following seasons, I'll be fine with that. I just think, from the current facts in regards to Laurel and Sara, Sara's the better choice as a series regular for Canary. But we'll see what happens.

  7. #22
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    and the talk about the black canary her father bought her sister.


    Maybe that was hint though. Sara had the pet Black Canary, not Laurel. So Sara is the Black Canary.

    Sara trained with Ra's Al Ghul making her have master level fighting skills over Laurel's self defense classes and the Canary is not wearing ridiculous fishnets she's wearing a more crime fighting appropriate outfit. So that makes her a better Canary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut1214 View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Maybe that was hint though. Sara had the pet Black Canary, not Laurel. So Sara is the Black Canary.

    Sara trained with Ra's Al Ghul making her have master level fighting skills over Laurel's self defense classes and the Canary is not wearing ridiculous fishnets she's wearing a more crime fighting appropriate outfit. So that makes her a better Canary.
    How can you say it makes Sara a better Canary when Laurel hasn't become Black Canary? Anyway we don't actually know what they've planned for Laurel but it would be a shame if she didn't become "The" Black Canary.

    And come on the fishnets are part of what makes the Black Canary the Black Canary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maasaloo View Post
    How can you say it makes Sara a better Canary when Laurel hasn't become Black Canary? Anyway we don't actually know what they've planned for Laurel but it would be a shame if she didn't become "The" Black Canary.

    And come on the fishnets are part of what makes the Black Canary the Black Canary.
    By the stuff I listed, this Canary has already trained for 5 or 6 years and has been trained by freaking Ra's Al Ghul! Laurel will need even more time to train to even be comparable this Canary. The Black Canary is one of the best martial artists in the DC verse so a couple of classes in a few months won't be enough to make her one. Plus the actress they hired for the Canary (Caity Lotz) is trained in martial arts and stunt work making her a better fit to play the Canary.

    Laurel just has the name and that's about it, which could easily be solved by Sara (since she's legally dead) changing her name to Dinah Drake. And she'll be the Canary like she is in the New 52 verse.

    Fishnets are not at all practical for fighting ever, so definitely not for crime fighting. So I appreciate the costume update, it looks much more comfortable to kick some ass. She's got her Canary cry device and martial arts skills that's enough for me to see her as the Black Canary.
    Last edited by Coconut1214; 10-25-2013 at 12:01 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut1214 View Post
    By the stuff I listed, this Canary has already trained for 5 or 6 years and has been trained by freaking Ra's Al Ghul! Laurel will need even more time to train to even be comparable this Canary. The Black Canary is one of the best martial artists in the DC verse so a couple of classes in a few months won't be enough to make her one. Plus the actress they hired for the Canary (Caity Lotz) is trained in martial arts and stunt work making her a better fit to play the Canary.

    Laurel just has the name and that's about it, which could easily be solved by Sara (since she's legally dead) changing her name to Dinah Drake. And she'll be the Canary like she is in the New 52 verse.

    Fishnets are not at all practical for fighting ever, so definitely not for crime fighting. So I appreciate the costume update, it looks much more comfortable to kick some ass. She's got her Canary cry device and martial arts skills that's enough for me to see her as the Black Canary.
    All good points and I get we're your coming from but who's to say we don't get big time jumps in future seasons. Say next season start's 2 years after this one and Laurel went missing only to return for example with added fighting skills?.

    At this moment the Canary is the proto Canary for Laurel to eventually become Black Canary.
    Last edited by maasaloo; 10-25-2013 at 12:33 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by maasaloo View Post
    All good points and I get we're your coming from but who's to say we don't get big time jumps in future seasons. Say next season start's 2 years after this one and Laurel went missing only to return for example with added fighting skills?.

    At this moment the Canary is the proto Canary for Laurel to eventually become Black Canary.
    A few months time jump makes sense. Years won't since they want to, for the first five seasons, show Oliver's first five years back in Starling City progressing from The Hood to The Green Arrow, and his five years on the island progressing from Playboy to The Hood. If/When they decide to go further than five seasons, then maybe, just maybe, time jumps like that would be believable. But I would point out that some of the most jarring elements in the BBC show "Merlin" was there sudden leap forward by two or three years the last three seasons of it.

    As much as it would be cool for them to have Laurel learn to be Black Canary, it just doesn't make sense unless they remove her from the cast until the final season, which shouldn't happen IMO. This is my viewpoint on how the Lances might work out as Oliver's allies:

    Officer Lance: His Jim Gordon.
    Laurel Lance: His contact in the legal offices.
    Sara Lance: His partner in bringing justice through extra-legal maneuverings.

    But, as I've said, if they can do a transition between Laurel and Sara that's believable, I'll be okay with Laurel becoming the Canary. But I want a believable transition, and right now, I just don't see how they can do it with the time allotted.

  12. #27
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    The thing is Caity Lotz (Canary) draws you in from the beginning but she is only the first Canary. I can see it taking a turn like it did with Emily (Felicity) who started recurring but became a regular. From what I read when it was announced that Caity Lotz was cast they did not discount her from becoming a regular.. Also I could see her go because of how they are building Laurel's storyline this season but Laurel has a long way to go before she becomes Canary. For now I will enjoy the current storyline.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by maasaloo View Post
    All good points and I get we're your coming from but who's to say we don't get big time jumps in future seasons. Say next season start's 2 years after this one and Laurel went missing only to return for example with added fighting skills?.

    At this moment the Canary is the proto Canary for Laurel to eventually become Black Canary.
    I definitely agree with you on this one, "maasalo"! I think the writers' plan is to introduce Sara Lance as the proto-Canary, who will later be replaced by her sister Laurel Lance as the "real" Black Canary. I think that Sara as she was presented in the "Broken Dolls" episode is an intriguing character and I'm looking forward to learning more about her and seeing her interact with both Oliver and the Lance family. On the other hand, I belong to those viewers for whom character build-up is more interesting than a cool custome and cool moves, which is all we have seen of Sara/Canary so far. Although Laurel's characterization could have been better in season one, I still feel she has quite a lot of depth as a character, if only because we have followed her for a whole season. In that sense at least she is a pretty well-rounded character and she also has some interesting relationships, both with her father and with Oliver. Whatever you may think about the Laurel/Oliver romance, the two of them do have a history as a couple and in the story mythology they are supposed to be deeply on love with each other, even if they can't be together right now. On the other hand, Oliver's brief affair with Sara was IMHO more of a fling, based on sexual attraction, and I can't see how that affair could evolve into something resembling the canonical BC/GA relationship from the comics.

    As for the writers' plans, there have been no indications that Sara is supposed to take Laurel's place and become Oliver's partner and soul mate...in fact, Guggenheim keeps referring to Laurel and Oliver as the show's "destined lovers". IF the writers decide to write Laurel off the show and replace her with Sara that would be pure "fan service" in my eyes, and even if it would please some viewers/fans, it would probably upset quite a few viewers as well, not only Katie fans, but also people like myself who would feel that such a retcon would be an example of bad and inconsequential storytelling. There is much more to Black Canary than what we have seen from Sara/Caity Lotz so far, and there is no guarantee that she would be a better choice than Laurel/Katie in the long run. Therefore I feel that it's still too early to make any predictions about who is the best Black Canary, especially since we haven't seen Laurel in action yet...I mean, it might be that a rebooted Laurel/BC in a black leather costume and mad fighting skills will be really exciting! And really, if the "Arrow" writers would write their storylines and romantic relationships in accordance with the preferences of the online fandom (which is only a miniscule subset of the overall viewership), they would already have gotten rid of Laurel and installed Oliver and Felicity as the show's major romantic couple, and turned "Arrow" into the "Olicity" show! However, that hasn't happened, and I would say that as long as the ratings remain as good as they have been so far in season two, the writers won't make any major changes in their long-term storylines and character trajectories.

    I also feel that Sara's lack of restraint when it comes to killing is a problem if she is supposed to be the real Black Canary, because it deviates from how Dinah/Black Canary is portrayed in the comics. Dinah is a badass fighter, but she is also compassionate and she wouldn't kill in cold blood as the "Arrow" Canary seems to do. Sara reminds me more of season one Oliver, and that is another reason why I think that Sara is supposed to be Black Canary 1.0, while Laurel is Black Canary 2.0. We will have the same evolution as with Oliver, with the difference that it will be split up between the two Lance sisters...

    I can understand the POV of those viewers who feel that Sara/Caity would be a better BC. However, I personally feel that it would be more rewarding if the writers developed and fixed their already existing long-term characters and relationships than changing character roles midstream.
    Last edited by evaba; 10-26-2013 at 09:42 PM.

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