#9.11 "First Born"

[fletch]

What about Michael. First born Angel

[Anno_Domini]

What about him? He's in Lucifer's Cage, lol.

[fletch]

My opinion, is that Michael and Lucifer are busting out of that cage before this series concludes. It might not happen this season, but they are not going to end this show without those 2.

[Axalon]

My opinion, is that Michael and Lucifer are busting out of that cage before this series concludes. It might not happen this season, but they are not going to end this show without those 2.

Interesting idea Fletch, but the writers may feel that Michael and Lucifer have had their story concluded and shouldn't need to be reintroduced to the story. I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to see them come back as a combined threat, but the writers may have other ideas. It would be cool to see if they somehow combined their powers as some super badass angel possessing Adam or someone else. Others on this forum have talked about this as well.

First born could just have something to do with Dean, or the Levis since they were the first beast, or most likely, about Cain, since he was the first born human and weren't we supposed to get him as a character this season?

[SVFancross]

I think the parallels are between Cain and Dean in this episode. But what is the nature of Cain? Is he immortal, forced to live forever because he killed his brother? Cause I think that is punishment. If he's trained the Knights of Hell to fight then was he some sort of demon? Lilith was the "first" demon Lucifer created, but maybe Can was the first human turned into demon? But this "love" comment from EW suggest perhaps he's not a supernatural entity (except he's still alive). But what value is he in training Knights if he doesn't have supernatural powers? **Am confused** I think what Cain did to Abel maybe some parallel with what the show is telling us Dean did to Sam (in terms of violation). Or not. Cain famously says he's not his brother's keeper. Dean is the complete opposite -- he's been his brother's keeper since he carried him out of the fire.

[fletch]

Let's say season 10 is the final season. Would you not want to see Michael and Lucifer team up? What other route could possibly conclude the series better than those two?

[SVFancross]

Let's say season 10 is the final season. Would you not want to see Michael and Lucifer team up? What other route could possibly conclude the series better than those two?

I don't think you are asking me, but can I answer anyway???

I personally think they've played out the good son/bad son story. That's the Micheal/Lucifer story in my book. And Sam & Dean are BETTER than Micheal and Lucifer because these two CAN team up. Micheal and Luci couldn't so they are stuck in a cage forever. I think the emphasis is instead on Free Will. Personally I want to see the ending of the story have a reveal involving God/man/good & evil. And lets throw Death in for fun. Cas made a funny comment about Bugs Bunny being an allegory for man's search for God back in Hunter Heroici. One of the writers (maybe Singer? maybe Dabb? maybe Glass.... I can't remember) said that this was actually one of the interpretations of Bugs Bunny. Who Knew? (Not me). ANYWAY.... so far God has been a Deadbeat Dad...or Chuck. Dean's rejection of God having ANYTHING to do with anything (in this Season premier and again in last week's Rock and a Hard Place) points out that Dean's (and Sam's) belief system is pretty jaded right now. And that could be the end of it. But I don't think so. Why have the lady talk to Cas about his lack of faith not negating hers? Don't get me wrong --- this show is NOT IMO going to end up with a massive religious statement. I'd put that under the category of "not a chance". It's never been like that. But it really likes to play with Free Will and good vs evil. So... my "dream" resolution would be for Dean/Sam to want to yell at God for a while about having to put up with all this **** while eventually coming to the realization that being left alone is actually the right gift. I think it's not just man that is being tested but the Angels AND Demons as well. The whole "Defense of Mankind" tablet plot has to be leading to something. Maybe it's to come to the conclusion that how God set things up is messy but the best solution. Or conversely, maybe the series ends with some of the big levers pulled and Man no longer needing Angels or experiencing Demons. IDK... I just think it's going to involve Free Will, levers, and inherent definition of good & evil.

Please note: If I've somehow sparked any kind of upsetted-ness in my comments along the lines of religious beliefs that is NOT my intent. I'm treating this as a different universe with a set of it's own rules. While it may be an allegory for the role of man in the universe, I'm not expecting SPN to ACTUALLY be a commentary on any particular religious beliefs. I hope this makes sense.

[SuperSheltie]

Personally, I like Jensen's own idea of how he would like the series to end....which actually fits the ending of Swan Song....I do want to see at least Lucifer at some point....I just love the character. Michael and Lucifer are not dead and can be pulled out of the cage perhaps by Death. I also still vividly recall that rabbit hole in Purgatory....and the comments from TPTB about seeing some different angels as well as old familiar ones (Gabriel, Balthasar, Anna, etc. perhaps Lucifer)...

P.S. Jensen's dream of the series end: Sam is truly dead, and Dean is alone in the Impala driving down a long lonely road, stopping for a man on a motorcycle, and giving the cycle rider the keys to the Impala. Dean then takes off on the bike. He didn't need the Impala anymore because Sam was dead....really quite a great ending IMO. He said this at a Con last year I believe.

[Anno_Domini]

^ I sorta like that idea, but the other way around.

Dean is dead and doesn't want Sam to rescue him as he wants Sam to have a normal life from now on so Sam drives off with the Impala, but then ends up giving it to someone at a bus station as he grabs a ticket and the episode ends with the bus driving off to an unknown location to the viewer.

And as for a Michael/Lucifer team-up....I don't know. Part of me wants to see them return, but part of me feels like that's just a dead topic right now. We had the Apocalypse and all of that jazz and they're locked up in Hell. If anything, there should be a conclusion to Adam's soul. Besides, Michael and Lucifer being locked up was a great sign in that not every baddie can die or will die. Sometimes you just have to lock them up. I mean, look at all those monsters and even Eve; they didn't really die as they're just in Purgatory.

[SVFancross]

Nice scoop Craig! I think you hit the wires first.

p for the January 21 episode of Supernatural. The title of the episode is "First Born."

TIM OMUNDSON ("PSYCH") GUEST STARS AS CAIN --- Looking to reclaim his place as King of Hell, Crowley (Mark Sheppard) asks Dean (Jensen Ackles) for help finding "The First Blade," the only blade that can kill Abbadon (guest star Alaina Huffman). Knowing he owes Crowley a favor for helping Sam (Jared Padalecki), and also wanting Abaddon dead himself, Dean reluctantly agrees and the two set off on a road trip. However, Dean and Crowley are completely unprepared when they find out who has the blade - Cain (guest star Omundson), the first son. Meanwhile, Sam is back at the bunker with Castiel (Misha Collins) who notices there is some leftover grace inside Sam. If they can extract it, they can use the grace to track Gadreel. The only problem is the procedure may do permanent damage to Sam. John Badham directed the episode written by Robbie Thompson (911).

Wow. Major spoilers indeed. So Crowley fixes Sam? And a Crowley/Dean road trip??? Sign me right up. Not loving the lore-fiddling....a little leftover grace? Still, my expectations for this episode just went thru the roof.

[Damonte]

Can't wait for this ep. Only thing I'm kinda getting tired of Sam always being damaged goods.

[Quark]

I really like Abbadon. Hope she doesn't die...

[Anno_Domini]

[Anno_Domini]

[fletch]

This will be my last statement on the topic. God has some role in season 10. Hes been such a mystery. They dont have to go into great detail about him, but some things need to be explained. Like why did he leave, what are his opinions, and will he intervene. Plus deans amulet needs to have a role in the series finale. But I don't think you can bring God into the equation without Michael and Lucifer. Michael and Lucifer team up has way too much potential.