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  1. #16
    Board Master SVFancross's Avatar
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    Thanks for that! I was trying to figure out what happened to the girl. Looked up the actress on IMDB. I swear Dean has a type (brunette w/ curves).

  2. #17
    1000 More To Go!! Welling_is_pretty's Avatar
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    I honestly am not sure about this episode. From the extended description I wonder if it won't end up Jossing Kripke-ing Dean's past.

    I guess i just can't imagine Dean letting himself be separated from Sam back then. I mean, yes, if he was caught and sent to this camp (especially while John was off on one of his hunts), he'd have to go. But why owuldn't he break out and go right back to Sam? That means while he was there Sam was left alone? After the Striga (from Something Wicked), especially, there's no way Dean would let that happen.

    But perhaps they'll explain it. I hope so.

  3. #18
    Board Master SVFancross's Avatar
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    I guess i just can't imagine Dean letting himself be separated from Sam back then. I mean, yes, if he was caught and sent to this camp (especially while John was off on one of his hunts), he'd have to go. But why owuldn't he break out and go right back to Sam? That means while he was there Sam was left alone? After the Striga (from Something Wicked), especially, there's no way Dean would let that happen.

    But perhaps they'll explain it. I hope so.
    Perhaps they left him with Pastor Jim or Bobby for some time. Going back to Dark Side of the Moon, we had 11 year old Sam eating Thanksgiving dinner shortly after transferring to "McKinney" two weeks prior. And since neither John nor Dean were there, I'm thinking they were not sitting in a nearby motel eating extra crispy chicken while Sam went to someone's house. It would make more sense that John & Dean were in absentia. They could have said John needed Dean on a hunting trip and kept Sam in the dark.
    Of course it could have been a completely different time, but if there is IMO a plausible scenario based on events we've already seen, I think they'll be able to come up with another one.

    The other thing is that Sam clearly had a better school record than Dean. Dean got a GED. Sam probably graduated from some place because I have a hard time seeing him making it into Stanford on a GED. So Dean's education being more spotty, resulting in a GED tracks I think. There's also the mistake-that-turned-into-canon. Kripke said 2 years in college (and Sam was starting his junior year) and yet Sam was clearly 22. Kripke's response (at the Paleyfest) was that Sam was older when he started college but he also said it was a mistake that they had to retro-fit in. So, leveraging this "mistake", if Sam was older, he too probably had educational gaps but somehow managed to make it to a senior year in a high school where they allowed him to graduate. Sam was clearly more into his education than Dean (based on After School Special) so perhaps he made it a priority.

    It would be kind of nice to see if this episode explains more why Dean didn't seem to value his education that much. John clearly insisted they go to school but how they pulled that off traveling around the country is a big mystery. Unless John left them for whole semesters in one motel and just came back to visit every few weeks. That's kindof shittier than I was expecting. But, I really don't know how they managed to get either a GED or graduate without stringing together more than 2 weeks at the same school.

  4. #19
    1000 More To Go!! Welling_is_pretty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVFancross View Post
    Perhaps they left him with Pastor Jim or Bobby for some time.
    That would make sense (I've often felt that poor Pastor Jim--who was so important in Season 1--got written off/out too quickly. He never even gets a mention anymore!).

  5. #20
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    Lately, I don't really have much doubts with this episode. I had more worries with "As Time Goes By" with that whole Henry Winchester ordeal than Dean having once had a change of heart. It could actually help in the way Dean has been for the past eight years. I do have hope this episode will work, at least.

  6. #21
    Board Master SVFancross's Avatar
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    Lately, I don't really have much doubts with this episode. I had more worries with "As Time Goes By" with that whole Henry Winchester ordeal than Dean having once had a change of heart. It could actually help in the way Dean has been for the past eight years. I do have hope this episode will work, at least.
    I was recently watching some select episodes in S1-S4 yesterday and here's some backstory bits that I sat up and paid attention to in light of what is coming in this episode (WARNING...anytime I randomly put **** together misaligned expectations can occur...if you like what I'm saying, don't get your hopes up...if you hate what I'm saying, don't worry....these are my ramblings and I am not Cassandra or Chuck).

    Topic: potential indications of Dean's commitment to (or issues with) his vocation. Commitment indicators have a (C) annotation, Issue indicators have an (I)
    S1:
    Pilot (C) - that he gets Sam in the first place -- he's all Han Solo after that but he clearly is longing for the family aspect of hunting and doesn't want to do it along. My theory: hunting is what the FAMILY does
    Wendigo (C) - "The family business" mission statement. Notice it's not a personal mission statement
    Skin (I) - "He sure got issues with you. You got to go to college. He had to stay home, with Dad. I mean I had to stay home ... with Dad. You don't think I had dreams of my own? But Dad needed me, where the hell were you?" Skinwalker Dean to Sam. Probably the strongest statement of jealousy using a "voice of unvarnished truth" in any of the episodes I can remember. Plue "Me, I know I'm a freak, and sooner or later everyone's going to leave me."
    Route 666 (I) - Although the story doesn't sell very well, the impression IMO is that he longed for something normal with Cassie because he told he the truth. And the experience in the past and THIS episode reinforced that he can't have a normal relationship with a girl. So, while it reinforces his (C), it's not a good thing. Therefore I put this in the (I) column.
    Something Wicked (C/I) and Devil's Trap (C/I) - Both of these episodes IMO show Dean's commitment to family over hunting as well as clear "programming" from John about what his identity HAS to be (protect Sam). Dean shows a different set of priorities for Dean than John. John motivated by Vengeance, Dean motivated by family, and Sam torn between the two (like John he wants vengeance but Dean's influence on him makes him choose family). To me this emphasis of family over hunting shows Dean's motivations for hunting are not clearcut.
    The rest of S1: Dean's Han Solo schtick is pretty much "the hunter's life is for me!" attitude but how much is bravado and what he really feels is difficult to tell. He also does a running commentary on "college is dumb" jokes too -- showing resentment. He sort of knocks this off later on. Hence I've pulled out episodes in S1 that show a specific indicator IMO.

    S2:
    Bloodlust (C): Stands out as one or real commitment to hunting for Dean. He tells story: "So. I pick up this crossbow. And I hit that ugly sucker with a silver-tipped arrow right in his heart. Sammy's waiting in the car, and uh, me and my dad take the thing into the woods, burn it to a crisp. I'm sitting there and looking into the fire, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm sixteen years old. Most kids my age are worried about pimples, prom dates. I'm seeing things that they'll never even know. Never even dream of. So right then, I just sort of -" embraced the life. And the difference between he and Sam is highlighted. Then Sam "ruins it" by showing him the shades of grey out there. Which is telling. Also, in light of the upcoming episode, this places him at age 16 as "embracing the life". Now this means that before that time he may NOT have totally embraced the life. Plus this is a story he's telling a stranger so it may only be the story he tells versus the real moment.
    What Is and What Should Never Be (I/C): Dean's fantasy is a normal life. This is what the Djinn picks up. But again we get hunting=family. Otherwise Dad is still dead and he and Sam are estranged. He also has the emotional moment at the grave: "Why? Why is it my job to save these people? Why do I have to be some kind of hero? What about us? Mom's not supposed to live? Sammy's not supposed to get married? Why do we have to sacrifice everything, Dad?". OTOH although he was tempted to stay, even knowing it was a lie, he told Sam it really WASN'T a perfect fantasy. It was just a wish and the best part was that his mom was alive. But the rest, not so much.
    The rest of S2: No particular episode stands out on motivation for the hunting life. Dean is clearly strung out on guilt over his father's death and worry over Sam's destiny. He's TIRED at the end of the season. In S5 we find out that the "hole" he felt all year was from knowing he should have gone with her rather than be brought back to life. So, although Dean is in hunter-mode the whole year, there's only a couple of light-hearted moments where it seems like he really enjoys it IMO.

    S3:
    The Kids Are Allright (C/I): While Dean is resolved to not having a normal life, apparently Lisa and Ben are his fantasy 'normal' life. The fact that he still HAS a fantasy 'normal' life is relevant but he is more resigned than ever that his life is that of a hunter.
    Dream a Little Dream of Me (I): Repeats the Lisa/Ben fantasy but it's the mano y mano talk that's revealing. About Dean's low self-esteem, his lack of original identity, being Daddy's attack dog and ending with this bitter rant:
    "My father was an obsessed bastard! All that crap he dumped on me, about protecting Sam. That was his crap. He's the one who couldn't protect his family. He- He's the one who let Mom die. Who wasn't there for Sam. I always was! He wasn't fair! I didn't deserve what he put on me. And I don't deserve to go to hell!" Doing this all while putting the beat down on himself.
    A Very Supernatural Christmas (C): Dean's adoration of John is full-on in this episode. And their pitifully sad and touching little Christmas presents from the mini-mart shows just how screwed up their lives are. (Note: that episode should be illegal for the FEELS it evokes). You could almost suggest there is a case of (I) in this episode because of the sadness but Dean's adoration of John sort of outweighed that for me.
    The Rest of S3: Dean's either glad to just have his life over or looking to stay alive. Interesting to note that he tells Sam "I've done enough for this family." in The Magnificent Seven. Indicates how much carrying to load weighed on him.

    S4
    It's a Terrible Life (C): Dean is supposed to be a hunter. Always has been, always will be...it's in his blood. This is the message they hit both Dean and the audience with. It's about as strong a (C) as possible. But now we are past the point of ever having "normal" (he was in hell for 40 years, normal is GONE).
    Jump the Shark (I): John had no choice with Sam and Dean but Adam was SPARED the hunting life. Dean's disgust at Sam dragging Adam in is evident. As is his own deep jealousy and rage at the life Adam got. Note that Sam is a genius with 174 on the LSAT and Adam was "all AP" and pre-Med at Univ of Wisconsin. Compare that to Dean with the GED. It's not reasonable to assume that Dean got the short end of the gene pool. It's more reasonable to assume that nuture (or lack thereof) severely outweighed nature in terms of Dean's academic potential. Dean still worship's John despite this and does his best to do what John would want with Adam. But this episode shows DEEP hurt regarding the life Dean was forced into IMO.
    The rest of S4: family family family over destiny is the big message. Which can be an analogy for people over hunting.

    So... there's my evidence that Dean did not always want to be a hunter and even up through S4 we saw signs that this was the case. After coming back from hell, Dean's lot in life is forever changed IMO but I don't think it was before then. YMMV.

  7. #22
    Settling In blue sunflower's Avatar
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    Last edited by blue sunflower; 11-11-2013 at 12:56 PM.

  8. #23
    Board Master SVFancross's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I can get over that pornstache.

  9. #24
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    They definitely picked someone that could play a young Dean...obviously, this is before Dean's 18, so I'm definitely going with 15, 16.

  10. #25
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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  11. #26
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    So...Dean was 16.



    Now, some tidbits....Dean said it was springtime, so it could have happened right before Dean's story of how he embraced his life in "Bloodlust" to Gordon.

    Also, it may have seemed like they just found out what a Rugaru was in "Metamorphosis", but I'd like to think that Dean was trying to forget because of this whole memory of possibly being something else besides a hunter. Or that's the way I'll view it besides being a retcon. I mean, Sam WAS going to say something in "Metamorphosis" so perhaps he was going to say what a Rugaru is.

  12. #27
    Board Master SVFancross's Avatar
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    Also, it may have seemed like they just found out what a Rugaru was in "Metamorphosis", but I'd like to think that Dean was trying to forget because of this whole memory of possibly being something else besides a hunter. Or that's the way I'll view it besides being a retcon. I mean, Sam WAS going to say something in "Metamorphosis" so perhaps he was going to say what a Rugaru is.
    Other options:
    - Dean didn't know what it was called, just a description, and now knows it's proper name.
    - Dean is lying, 'He does that.'

    I'm just not sure the 'lost it in poker, 5 finger discount, no biggie' is all that there is. I feel there's another shoe to drop besides his first love interest. Which... 16... I'm hoping it's PG-13 cause I'm not ready for more.

  13. #28
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    Great, another filler episode. yeah

  14. #29
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVFancross View Post
    Other options:
    - Dean didn't know what it was called, just a description, and now knows it's proper name.
    - Dean is lying, 'He does that.'
    Possibly those too, but I like my theory...adds more depth to this situation in my mind, lol.

    I'm just not sure the 'lost it in poker, 5 finger discount, no biggie' is all that there is. I feel there's another shoe to drop besides his first love interest. Which... 16... I'm hoping it's PG-13 cause I'm not ready for more.
    How he's sent to the place, I think the losing to poker thing sounds legit...more importantly, it's what happens at the place that Dean is hiding.

  15. #30
    Board Master SVFancross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
    Possibly those too, but I like my theory...adds more depth to this situation in my mind, lol.



    How he's sent to the place, I think the losing to poker thing sounds legit...more importantly, it's what happens at the place that Dean is hiding.
    Good points, both. I'm just not sure what is worth hiding.

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