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The ''problem'' with Snyder is that he's being mind controlled by yours truly. Now you know. You want a really great DCEU movie? Well tough luck. You'll have to wait until Batfleck films The Batman. Batfleck is my buddy and he has my full support (I will personally edit THE BATMAN) And I'm not just saying that because he's got a god killing gun and he ain't afraid to use it. Cold blooded killer that he is...
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Easter Egg in Batman v Superman that hinted at Captain Boomerang in Suicide Squad.
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Ya know, Captain Boomerang... Like, what's he supposed to do against the Flash?Comment
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Zack Snyder posted this on some site here is the YouTube version of it.
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If these movies had been better we might still be having great discussions here.Comment
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I loved the movies but I avoided discussing them because on another website I go to almost every single DC thread gets locked because you have people defending the movies and the fans of Marvel movies attacking the movies and we end up have multiple page discussions than move onto something to discuss before the thread gets back to the previous discussions. The threads keep getting locked because the posts in that thread keep going in circles.Comment
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I think it's usually controversial movies that get discussed the most and BvS sure falls in that category. Civil War was a better movie according to a lot of people and it has been discussed far less on this website.
Personally speaking, I liked BvS. But you eventually reach a point where you get bored of defending it or saying what you liked about it. And by the same proxy, I suspect people who didn't like it got tired of criticising.Comment
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Well I'm back, haven't posted in the forums in a while. Recently rewatched Man of Steel and ended up liking it more than before. Finally saw Batman v Superman, the Ultimate Edition. It's a lot to process and I'm sure I'll discover more flaws on repeat viewings, but my gut reaction is that I kinda loved it. I went in with zero expectations and was thoroughly entertained. For it's long running time the movie flowed surprisingly well with a few hickups here and there, you could certainly feel its length at times, but I remained engaged the whole way through.
The movie was jam packed and had an unusual structure, very ambitious and I thought most of the themes, overly simplified metaphors and symbolism or not, worked well. Even Doomsday had some gravitas, not as a character, but what he represented, at least in Lex's eyes. Sure, his mannerisms and tone of voice were very un-Lex-like, he created a monster that would destroy mankind, Metropolis and Gotham are suddenly neighbors and Wonder Woman didn't really need to be there, despite her origin kinda fitting the theme of the movie about men meeting gods.
There wasn't much action but what there was really energetic and brutal. Enjoyed the fight between Batman and Superman and was surprised how held back it was. The Martha twist didn't come off as ridiculous as was picture by countless reviews. Though maybe my lowered expectations helped to make it seem like a better twist than it actually was. The car chase scene was pointless, but cool. The actual theft of the kryptonite in comparison isn't shown which seems counter intuitive, but it didn't hold the movie back for me.
Overall I'd give it an 8 although repeat viewings might drop it to a 7.Comment
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After watching WW it gives this movie a new angle on Lex. [SPOILER] As we found out in WW, Diana wasn't just created from clay but, in fact is the daughter of Zeus.[/SPOILER] In BvS Lex stated "If God is all-powerful, He cannot be all good. And if He is all good, then He cannot be all-powerful." So he really should have been keeping better tabs on her.Comment
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Open the movie with the end of MOS, show Bruce arriving, running into the rubble, seeing Superman, glaring, basically the same thing.
OPENING TITLE.
The same terrorist situation where Lois is captured. She sees some of the terrorist figures faces. Superman, without hurting people, saves Lois, but a bomb goes off in the terrorist bunker, burning everyone completely, killing everyone inside.
Then cut to a senate hearing discussing Superman and how he still hasn't been held accountable for the destruction in Metropolis. And with the most recent unauthorized destruction of the terrorist group by Superman, as far as they think, which resulted in the deaths of 2 civilian hostages, they state that it's time they discuss what Superman should do and not what he can do.
Show Clark watching the senator talking about how they're now officially calling Superman out to answer for what he's done, for Metropolis and the deaths of those civilian hostages. He's forlorn. Lois enters their apartment, seeing him watching the senator. She tries to reassure him, telling him that he's not responsible for what happened, he just has to tell the truth. Clark says that he is. He should have seen the bomb, but he wasn't focused enough. It's his fault, it all is.
Batman is a reckless, vicious vigilante. He pummels criminals like rapists and murderers into near comas. Alfred is deeply concerned about Bruce's growing viciousness, fearful that he'll cross the line. Have the scene where Alfred says that everything's changed also have him glance at Jason's costume just as he says it. Jason's death caused him to shut down as a superhero, but after the events of MOS, he's retaken his mission harder than ever. He has nightmares about his parents deaths and Jason's death intermingling into the same event.
Superman is very much playing with kid gloves. After the events of MOS, he's afraid of his powers, the destructive force he has. He doesn't break bones, he tries to avoid destroying property. He doesn't want anyone else to get hurt. He has ptsd-esque flashbacks about the events of MOS. He still works, he's begun a relationship with Lois, which is struggling because of his disconnected attitude. Clark is obsessed with keeping himself from being something that frightens people, so much so that he's formed a partnership with Metropolis' hometown billionaire to help the city...
Lex is paranoid, rich, ruthless and fearful. He's grown and constructed his entire life around being powerful, great and untouchable. And then comes Superman, a powerful creature that is better than, more special than and more powerful than him, something that he can't control, that he can't protect himself from and he can't stand it. He's basically Batman on steroids. The Bruce Wayne worst case scenario. Only in a more self-involved way. He views Superman as a threat in waiting to him personally, not just really the world. Keep Jesse Eisenberg if you must. But make him more physically fit, not overly muscular though.
Lex's birth father abandoned him to be adopted by a broke family in the slums. He was raised by unfit parents, an alcoholic mom and a controlling dad. When they died, he worked his way through college using the insurance money from their deaths and used it to buy stock in his real father's company. When he was discovered by his dad, Lex discovered that his dad had abandoned him to see how he could thrive on his own, to see if he would ever be worthy enough for his company, then telling him that he's seen that's the case and that he's left Lcorp to him in his will. Enraged at him, his entire life being a pawn under the thumb of his real father, Lex killed him. He then used all the knowledge he'd gained to completely change the face of Lcorp, even giving his name to it, along with doing away with the oil business and making Lexcorp a science and military contract based company, creating new medicines, cutting edge research in fringe sciences, along with DNA studies, and weapons. Not to mention all of the jobs Lex created for the city after one of Metropolis' worst financial fallouts, due to the Gotham earthquake that caused significant damage to a part of Metropolis, essentially pulling the city out a kind of depression situation. Lex helped the reconstruction of the city after the battle of Metropolis as well.
Batman, after finding satellite footage from the world engine event of Superman being weakened, goes there to see if he can gather whatever weakened him, where he finds just particles, green dust left from crystalized rocks from the attempted terraforming effect of the world engine. But that's it. He investigates the area more and discovers that Lexcorp was there and took all the crystalized rocks.
Superman goes to the senate hearing where he's asked about his perception, his powers, what he plans to do about them and why he's doing what he's doing. Superman tells them that he just wants to help, that it's all he ever wanted. He's asked if he thinks the help that destroyed Metropolis by a mother of someone who was killed. Superman is visibly broken up and tries to explain that he made a mistake, he thought he could handle Zod, he didn't know it would cause as much destruction as it had.
The senators tell him that his powers aren't something that anyone can afford for him to make mistakes with. They ask him what gives him the right to do what he does when he can cause so much harm, when his mistakes do what they.
Someone tries to say that if Superman had done nothing, the world would be destroyed. Someone then yells that it's because of him that they came in the first place. The other person then yells that they don't know that for sure. A fight breaks out and Superman, worriedly starts to try and stop it, but is told by the senators that they have officials who deal with that and the fight is broken up by the guards.
Superman says that his powers give him the responsibility to try to something about what's happening in the world. They respond that responsibility doesn't give all say over the ways of the world. Superman's then asked that what makes him think that they need his help, that he has the power to fix all the problems of the world. Superman says, "Nothing. I just don't want anyone to be afraid of me anymore, when I'll I've ever wanted to do was keep as many people safe I could." They then say that he can't ever do enough.
The hearing ends, them telling him that despite the good he's done, it doesn't matter what he can do, that doesn't give him the right to act on behalf of humanity, especially if the cost of that can be the lives of innocents, and finally that they'll reconvene the next day for a complete decision. Superman leaves.
Lex uses the kryptonian ship, which was given to him as apart of his military contracts and a sample of Superman's DNA to create a clone, a mentally deficient clone, even a decaying one, something that he can control. He uses it to frame Superman for attacks. The first one being the senators from the hearing.
This shakes Superman. He sees the public and understands that no matter what he does, he won't be trusted by them, that he feels he shouldn't be, with everything he can do, everything he's done. He nearly quits because of this. It's really all about Superman's sense of inferiority. He's afraid that he can't help people now that they know he's out there. He's afraid that even though he knows the attacks happening aren't his fault he still fears that it's something he could be capable of. He doesn't see himself as helpful to the world, but as a negative force in it.
There's a running theme of a feeling of inferiority in this story. Lex feels inferior, because Superman's existence makes him feel powerless and inadequate. Batman feels helpless as ever to do good, to help people, because of such a destructive creature like Superman being around. This feeds into his already intense powerlessness at the loss of Jason Todd at the hands of the Joker due to his, as far as Batman's concerned, inaction.
Batman and Superman cross paths twice before the fight. Once during a bank robbery and another during an altercation where Superman does x-ray through Batman's cowl and tells him to stop his vigilantism. Batman rejects this and begins building his suit to combat Superman after he sees the stories about Superman's attacks, that are really Bizarro. Superman does some digging on Bruce Wayne, finding out about his parents deaths and the death of his ward, Jason Todd. He sees an escalation in Batman's viciousness ever since Jason Todd's death.
When Alfred discovers that Batman's making preparations to kill Superman, he tries to stop him, to convince him not to, that there must be an explanation for what's happening.
Meanwhile Lex has been keeping tabs on Superman, tracking an energy signature that he gives off using his satelites and an understanding of kryptonian DNA that he got from Zod's body, leading him to discover his identity. He then kidnaps his mom, framing Batman for it, placing a batarang at the scene.
Lois investigates Superman attacks. She tracks them to Lexcorp and recognizes Lex's goons leaving the building from the opening terrorist confrontation, following them.
Superman is basically winning the fight, until he stops himself and begins to realize that he and Batman have been manipulated by Lex. Batman capitalizes on Superman's stopping and uses his kryptonite weapons. And Batman begins beating Superman brutally, mercilessly, and we see flashes before Batman's eyes of Jason Todd being beaten half to death by the Joker with the crowbar.
During the fight Alfred would try to convince Batman over the comm to stop, but Batman turns them off, saying that he has to.
He would then tell Superman that he's let too much death happen because he wouldn't do what was necessary and that he won't let that happen again. But Superman would convince Batman that he doesn't have to do this, to cross this line, that he understands how he feels. That powerlessness can make you lose sight of what's right, it can make you make mistakes, big ones that you'll regret for the rest of your life. That you can feel like you can't save anyone. That doing this will make him lose what's good in him and he might never get it back and then, confirming that he knows who he is, says, "Bruce, this isn't who you are. You can be better than this. You have to make a choice about the kinda man you wanna be. Do you want to be this?" Batman flashes back to his father telling him that in life you have to make a choice about the kinda man you wanna be. And Bruce realizes what he was about to do, what he was about to become and crumbles to the ground under the weight of that realization.
Lois tracks the goons to a building, sneaking in, where she finds Martha and unties her. She then calls Clark and tells him this and hearing the name Martha, Bruce is snapped out of his guilt stupor and realizes that he can still be a hero. Lois' then caught by Lex's men. Batman then hears from Alfred that Superman's attacking the city, or rather Bizarro is and tells Superman. Superman isn't sure what to do and Batman says that he'll go after his mom, that Martha won't die tonight, no one will.
Batman goes to Lois' location, with Alfred tracking her phone GPS. He fights the goons and saves Martha and Lois.
Superman confronts Lex and tries to make Lex stop Bizarro. Lex tells him about Bizarro with, "Aliens, metahumans, magic, it's truly bizarre times we live in. Only fair that we make something just as bizarre to combat it." He says he thought Lex was his partner, a friend. Lex tells him, "With you? After demolishing a chunk of the city, you expect any human to be a friend to those terrifying hands. The hands that'll now be responsible for the city's destruction again."
Superman, angry now, asks Lex, "Why? I only wanted to help."
"Why? Good question... Ya know, I was the hero of the city before you got here, grew up in the slums with 2 poor thugs, abandoned by my real father, and when he died I saw my opportunity to take what was rightfully mine, I pulled the city out of mediocrity and made my company and it a shining beacon for the world, then your alien invasion obliterated everything I worked for. And I put it back together again and you know who everyone cheered for? Superman. You stole everything that I earned. It's what you're here to do, take away the power human's have, decide our fate for us. To stand above us all and lord your power so we all bow down and worship you. You don't get to do that. You hold humanity's destiny in your hands and I'm taking it back. The world will look at your corpse and see you for the monster here to take our fates out of our hands that you really are. And I'll be their hero. I guess I should thank you though. You helped me see that this world was larger than I thought." Lex then snaps his fingers and Superman's tackled by Bizarro. The fight leads through the city, Bizarro trying to endanger people, Superman working extra hard to save them.
Batman hears about the fight from Alfred about and goes to help. Him and Superman together fight Bizarro. Batman using his kryptonite weapons, as Superman helps people. Batman and Superman work together to defeat Bizarro. After Bizarro is subdued, Batman's about to use his kryptonite weapon to against him, considering killing him. But Superman stops him, saying that he promised that no one would die tonight, saying that there has to be another way, that he's learned that it will only cause more pain, that this creature is just something else Lex has manipulated. Superman and Batman go to arrest Lex. Superman tells Lex he's going to make him answer for everything he's done. Lex stabs Superman in the arm and sets off a kryptonite bomb to explode and kill them, then jumping for the elevator, but Batman saves Superman, protecting him with his lead suit and the aftershock of the firey kryptonite residue hits Lex.
Aferwards Superman and Batman talk, Batman deeply apologizing for what he nearly did and Superman responding that what he nearly isn't what's important now, but we did do and what he will do. He did what was right. And that's why he knows that he can trust him. Superman decides to trust Batman with the kryptonite, saying that if anything were to happen, he now trusts him to stop him. He says that he's tried to be perfect, to be above people, but he's not and that's why he's been tormented, he's held himself to an impossible standard. He's NOT God. Not a Savior. And he has no right to allow people to think that he is. He's only human. And it's time that he accept that and start accepting help, saying that he has Batman to thank for helping him see that. Batman says that it's time he does the same.
Montage this with Lex in the hospital, the kryptonite having poisoined his DNA, making him lose his hair, it being publicly stated that there was no evidence to say he was behind Bizarro, due to the creature decaying, as all those associated with the ship defense projects are dead, and Superman confronting him, telling him that he'll put him away.
Then Batman coming back to the batcave to see Alfred waiting for him. And he helps Bruce clean Joker's message off of Jason's costume, making it no longer a reminder of Batman's failure, but a memorial in Jason's memory. He then contacts Oracle, telling her to tell Dick that he's back. Alred, for the first time in the movie, smiles.
And Clark proposes to Lois, saying that he's ready to let her in now.
Please review and tell me what you think! Have a very great day!
God bless you all!Comment
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Just rewatched it myself cause it showed in HBO... the same things that bothered me, still bother me, just less, I think it has more to do with the fact that I have had time to process it and I am less emotional about it than that it aged well, it really didnt. Lex is even more annoying now, during the first views I was so in shock at how bad it was, that I didnt clasp the depth of how terrible this version is, from casting, personification to script, just all TERRIBLE all over. THey did nothing to redeem Superman from what he did during MOS, got his arse handed to him by Batman, was saved by a very stupid reason. Batman and Superman being at odds made no sense, specially considering how Superman acted in MOS (very vigilante like). I give this movie a solid 5, just because it had great audio and fxs. But all in all terrible.
WW was a one of the best parts of the film and her own film is a breath of fresh air of what I hope will be the new tone for the the DCEU.Comment
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Damn, this thread hasn't had any posts in a year.Comment
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Watching Joker doing so well in the box office and being lauded by so many moviegoers is a pleasant sight for those of us who stuck by Batman v. Superman when it came out. It took a very long while, but now most people are finally wise to the critics' agenda and they won't allow them to dictate what they like and don't like anymore. I said it at the time: "Don't believe the nonsense by RT and other reviewers. It's obvious they are trying to scare people from watching the movie".
And they tried it even more shamelessly here. But the fear mongering no longer works. Because when you bury BvS but praise far worse movies like The Last Jedi, Captain Marvel and Ant-Man and the Wasp, your Mickey Mouse agenda is starting to show.
Joker is a masterpiece and I am so happy to see it get a fair shake from the people that truly matter. It just sucks that it took so long for people to wake up and in the process the DCEU was destroyed, Justice League became an abomination, and people like Snyder, Affleck and Cavill got unfairly scapegoated and discarded by their own studio.Comment
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