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  1. #31
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    It looked like Abaddon was saying that to another demon, as it's in the same room where she got out of that bathtub...my first thought was, what if Abaddon is trying to rescue Lucifer? He could be the "him" Abaddon is referring to.

  2. #32
    Posting Pro SuperSheltie's Avatar
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    I thought she was saying it while holding onto Dean's neck....It all goes by so fast LOL....as a Knight of Hell, I would think she would try to find Lucifer to restore him to power, but she seemed pretty much like she was going to kill the "him".... With Mark P. now on the Tomorrow People, unless it's also filmed in Vancouver or they have different shooting schedules, I can't see him returning until late in the season if at all....unless they do some voice overs ...dunno...but I'm all about Lucifer returning....

  3. #33
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    Yah, I had to watch the promo again just to make sure I was correct but you do see Abaddon saying part of that sentence in that room right before we see her choking Dean. And I've always been one to think that Mark doesn't even have to show up for Lucifer to be used. Unless the writers are stuck on how to use Lucifer and would want him to resurrect his "Plan B" vessel, there are numerous other ways to bring back Lucifer. Lucifer could out power Michael and use Adam as the vessel, Lucifer could take in another deceased body of the Winchester bloodline(imagine if he used Henry!) or perhaps there could be a loophole and Lucifer uses Mary(which would be scary as hell). After "Swan Song", I never thought Mark would be used again but how he was used in season seven was fine(although it should've been used some more...and I think Mark should've been used to torment Castiel as well).
    Last edited by Anno_Domini; 09-17-2013 at 05:30 PM.

  4. #34
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    Extended promo released



    Nothing really new but some new video.

  5. #35
    Posting Pro SuperSheltie's Avatar
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    Drat, I thought this was a new one....

  6. #36
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    Yah, posted already. Don't get people's hopes up man because now you made SuperSheltie sad.

  7. #37
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
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    I haven't been in the Supernatural threads very often lately, so if it's been posted already, please link me to the thread, so we can merge it with the thread that it's already posted in or close the thread.

  8. #38
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/...hos-back/24524

    FALLEN ANGELS — Dean (Jensen Ackles) is frantic after Sam (Jared Padalecki) collapses and the doctor tells Dean his brother won’t make it. Desperate, Dean sends out an all points bulletin via prayer to every angel in the area, asking them to help his brother. In exchange, Dean will owe that angel a favor. Numerous angry angels race to find and kill Dean, but one, Ezekiel (guest star Tahmoh Penikett), gets to him first. Meanwhile, Sam fights for his life and must face some familiar demons to do so. Castiel (Misha Collins) struggles to survive without powers. John Showalter directed the episode written by Jeremy Carver (#902).

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  10. #40
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
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    Thanks. When I get back on my laptop, I can merge the threads.

  11. #41
    Board Master SVFancross's Avatar
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    Since we are less than a week away, I thought I'd put my spoiler based speculation thoughts together. How Sam gets healed is the big deal, of course, and I've read http://www.ksitetv.com/forums/showth...bout-Sam/page4 thru the various ideas on Dean's secret but rather than just focus on that, I thought I'd mix it all together with the summary, promos, promo photos and later story line suggestions.

    What has to happen this ep:
    - Sammy recovers enough to be back on his feet and the two escape all the peeps looking for them.

    What we know:
    - Dean does an "alli alli income free" to the angels to get Sam help (episode description), gets abused by a pair, gets Ezekiel's "help", has a phone call with Castiel and knows Cas is human and Metatron tricked him, makes a boat load of sigils in the room, has an inside-Sam's-head argument regarding living w/ Sam, is in the room with Sam and Death, in the car w/ Bobby and Sam
    - Bobby has a philosophical conversation inside Sam's noggin
    - Ezekiel is in the room despite there being sigils all over it and makes a physical connection w/ Sam and Dean
    - Sam appears up and fully function by EP2

    What we may know based on future story spoilers:
    - Sam heals rapidly (Dawg Dean Afternoon set report)

    So my spoiler-based speculation (which is consistent with some thoughts posted in the "Dean Secret" thread):
    - Dean is obviously the decision maker regarding how Sam gets healed. Since it's a secret, I'm not sure Sam will remember all the time in his noggin (by happenstance or at Dean's request).
    - Sam is no longer fully human. The trials actually did that before Dean does whatever he does in 9.01. The way he was gasping for air 8.23, the DNA-changes Cas mentioned in Goodbye Stranger, the claim that he was being purified by the trials in The Great Escapist. Sam hasn't be 100% normal human since 6 months old but this is a completely different non-human next step. Since he appears to be healing rapidly Angel-adjacent seems a reasonable guess. I'm going to go out on a limb though and say that it's not a blood transfer deal at all. If anything, I'd expect that Dean has Ezekiel has use the power of Dean's soul to facilitate whatever physical changes happen to Sam. Cas said he couldn't heal Sam. I'll go so far to say that even if Cas knew that using another soul's "power" could do the job, he'd NEVER tell Dean (because Dean 101 is to sacrifice for Sam). So, Dean's soul being the battery behind the change would totally be an in-character Dean call. It'll also piss off Sam/Cas/Bobby/Death - good drama value there. What is Sam? No clue. I don't think an Angel can change upgrade someone's species. Clearly Metatron removed Cas' grace so he's now fully human but I'm not 100% sure about that actually being a change of species for Cas versus a completely depowered former Angel (i.e. Cas is human-adjacent). So I'm not sure Angels can actually downgrade someone's species either. This is why I don't think Sam is ACTUALLY part Angel but somehow given Angel-like recovery skills (at a minimum) powered by Dean's soul battery. I don't think Sam will ever be 100% Grade A human again and I think there will be limits on the recovery potential and any powers. They've made so many comments about how having Cas at full power is a real narrative problem. I can't imagine making Sam immortal because that just backs them into the same narrative corner. So... it'll be enough to get him on his feet and I suspect the other shoe dropping (rapid recovery) will be the catalyst for Sam finding out what Dean did.
    - I think the audience will know what Dean did in the premier but I suspect both intended and unintended consequences (to both he AND Sam) to be less than fully revealed. "Consequences" is a theme of S9 per the Carver sneek peak on iTunes. Angels don't barter in souls so I think shortened lifespan for Dean is an obvious intended consequence (which totally fits Dean's die-young-and-bloody future plan).
    - Cas's story appears almost 100% independent of the boys for 9.01. Will he be visible to Angels? Since the Angel's are wingless is there a proximity issue if he IS visible? The story with the girl seems to be a pretty straightforward setup for Cas to go on the run hiding. And we won't get him as the main storyline until 9.03.
    - Personally I think both Bobby and Death are on the "Time to Go" train for Sam and both will be pissed at Dean.

    No speculation about but dying to know:
    - Why Ezekiel can be in a room full of sigils, what is "wrong" with him in the first place, and what he "gets" for facilitating the healing.
    Last edited by SVFancross; 10-02-2013 at 09:05 AM.

  12. #42
    Posting Pro SuperSheltie's Avatar
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    Wow, so much content here....I'm just going to comment on the parts I can wrap my head around at the moment and that is the last comment about Ezekiel and the sigils. Seems odd that Dean would pray to God (which I believe he is doing) to help Sam in a room full of angel warding. It is known that there will be several kinds of angels, some with power, some with half-power, some with only one power. The sigils are probably for demons. The angels being compromised somehow would also make the sigils useless in certain cases.

    I do think you are right about Sam though being no longer human, or at least some type of altered human, "adjacent" as you say. The question is whether Sam is actually more "angel-like" or whether his DNA is now more demon. The "Sacrifice" I believe has yet to be determined. Naomi mentioned the "ultimate sacrifice" but on this show death is not the sacrifice, really. Sam's "Sacrifice" could be his humanity somehow. But to make Sam a reaper seems a bit far-fetched right now. We already saw Dean as a reaper, even briefly. That would just be kind of repeating that whole reaper story from past seasons. I don't think you can just make a human an angel. The only way that could work is if Sam died, went to heaven and then was "promoted" to angel. Sam's entire life and history has been the demon/evil side of the Cain and Abel bloodline (which I believe was alluded to once when talking about why it always had to be Sam and Dean...I think it was Michael in young John)...Dean has always been the angel/good side of the pair. Whether this whole big "we've never done this before" comments and Jared's absolute hysteria about how much he loved this new story line is leading us to a "subatomic shift" of Sam now being more angel and Dean now being more demon remains to be seen. It could be very interesting if this is where they are heading.

  13. #43
    Board Master SVFancross's Avatar
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    Whether this whole big "we've never done this before" comments and Jared's absolute hysteria about how much he loved this new story line is leading us to a "subatomic shift" of Sam now being more angel and Dean now being more demon remains to be seen.
    While I think Sam being "purified" and finally shaking off his demon-taint is likely in the cards, I don't think Dean is going to be more demon. I just can't believe any price that Dean pays for saving Sam is going to be in the direction of evil/demon. The "agent" is a fallen warrior angel but unlike Lucifer, he wasn't kicked out of Heaven for disobedience. He was thrown out of Heaven by Metatron's spell. So, my gut tells me that Ezekiel is going to be a force for "good" and wouldn't make a shift in Dean that took him down an evil path. Sort of like Alphie not bargaining souls for the Demon tablet -- I don't think it'll be a line that most Angels would cross (regardless of how pissed off they are).

    In other spoilers/interviews, we get that Dean feels guilty about what he does and lying to Sam but I think that is guilt for doing something to Sam behind his back. I'm gong to speculate that if Dean is paying a price for Sam's health it'll be along the lines of early death or indentured servitude to Ezekiel for God Squad activities. Just spitballin' these ideas but I feel strongly "more demon" is not the vector they are heading in with Dean.

    Wow, so much content here
    Sorry, been chewing on it a while...got a bit verbose.

    BTW I don't think Sam will be a Reaper (I think Bobby might).

  14. #44
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    Great discussion! I think the deal with the sigils in the room is that Dean is doing an all points bulletin to angels, and that his intent is that once he gets one in the room, he'll finish the last sigil to lock them in there until they agree to help Sam. And I do agree that Sam isn't 100% human (ever since Azazel did his thing) and probably won't ever be so his wishing for it is a fools hope (that he needs to eventually grow past), but what seems like might be happening is that Ezekiel agrees to use Sam as his vessel (thereby 'healing' Sam's body), but that Ezekiel agrees to stay in the background, and not take over, so Sam isn't aware he's even there. So I think that's Dean's secret, that he makes this agreement with Zeke for Sam, but without Sam's knowledge or concent. And maybe what Ezekiel gets is a place to hide.

  15. #45
    Posting Pro SuperSheltie's Avatar
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    Good in theory, but Ezekiel is a recurring character so having him "hide" in Sam doesn't make much sense. Death is there for a reason, and more than just as Sam's personal reaper. Death wants order, and right now with angels on earth everything is chaos, and you have Abbadon up to no good and Crowley as more human than demon and severely demoted from Hell's ranks.

    Ezekiel could have made a deal with Dean to save Sam, but the end-game is getting Michael out of the cage to restore order in Heaven. Dean would then have to agree to say yes to Michael....

    This brings us almost to The End. After all, Samifer said "we will always end up...here."

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