The Oliver/Felicity (Olicity) Relationship Thread #1

[President_Luthor]

While I feel the 'will they-won't they' melodrama around Oliver has never been the hook for me to stay invested in Arrow - at this point who Oliver ends up with romantically ranks low on my checklist - I do get that this is a hook for other viewers.

The scenes with Ollie and Felicity in S5 haven't really bothered me and up to the point where they decided they were going to make a new Canary I largely agree with this season's back to basics direction. I think part of the difference is the manufactured drama part - its volume, its place in the pecking order of story priorities, etc.

Some fans want Olicity to be the show's driving force, with everything else including Oliver's heroic journey subservient to it. Others feel romance of any kind has no place in a superhero show and Oliver should be Batman-like in a lone crusade and reject all relationships that may distract him. I feel that either view for Arrow and Oliver in particular is excessive.

Arrow isn't supposed to be a teen soap opera, nor should it be a televised retelling of Bruce Wayne's story using Oliver as the proxy (though there is no denying Bat influences on the show, even after 5 seasons). It's at its best when it is ... something else ... a workable balance of the two.

For the show that Arrow is, on the network that it airs, it works best when these elements are balanced and one doesn't smother the other. I feel S5 has tried to strike this balance better than previous seasons. Oliver and Felicity have had tension in S5 and now even conflict but I don't feel it was as unwarranted this season. There was some sense to it.

I actually think other team members in S5 have picked up the angst-for-angst's sake torch that Olicity brandished shamelessly in past seasons.(Looking at you Curtis and your classic secrets and lies snafu with 'I'm here this season for the angst' Paul). Felicity's own secret keeping with 'I'm here for plot reasons' Billy, while irksome, was hardly the stuff we'd used to see at the peak of last year's baby mama drama.

The Olicity carousel should not have consumed the degree of attention it did, from showrunners, fans, or in past seasons' stories. But it also doesn't mean Oliver can go back to being the Hood without ties, attachments or limits either. The show needs balance and I think this season seems to be making the attempt. If they do default to manufactured drama with Olicity, that would be a setback ... but I've yet to see it, speaking as a moderate viewer who is neither an absolutist on Arrow obeying all things canon nor is someone who rejects Felicity's place on the team, in Oliver's life or the show.

Each has its place, and where the show has slipped it's when they lost sight of it. Not sure where they're going with Tina or why (my alpha concern right now), but for the moment I don't have issue with what they've done with Felicity so far this season. One could even argue that she needs this Dark Felicity phase to add more meat to her rather thin, non-relationship driven character development. I'm of the view that the team vets are becoming stale and need some form of shake up, no exceptions.

I want balance on Arrow and as of right now, it looks like I'm getting it. (Hope it sticks around.)

I have a feeling we'll be having similar discussions about The Flash a year or two from now when it too shows its age.

[BkWurm1]

Arrow isn't supposed to be a teen soap opera, nor should it be a televised retelling of Bruce Wayne's story using Oliver as the proxy (though there is no denying Bat influences on the show, even after 5 seasons). It's at its best when it is ... something else ... a workable balance of the two.

For the show that Arrow is, on the network that it airs, it works best when these elements are balanced and one doesn't smother the other. I feel S5 has tried to strike this balance better than previous seasons. Oliver and Felicity have had tension in S5 and now even conflict but I don't feel it was as unwarranted this season. There was some sense to it.

I actually think other team members in S5 have picked up the angst-

[snip]
If they do default to manufactured drama with Olicity, that would be a setback ... but I've yet to see it, speaking as a moderate viewer who is neither an absolutist on Arrow obeying all things canon nor is someone who rejects Felicity's place on the team, in Oliver's life or the show.

I'm of the view that the team vets are becoming stale and need some form of shake up, no exceptions.

I want balance on Arrow and as of right now, it looks like I'm getting it. (Hope it sticks around.)

.

I'm not looking for manufactured angst, it's been the biggest complaint made by most Olicity fans since what made the ship so extra special was the LACK of drama. And I do recall a kind of general acceptance to how Olicity was portrayed mostly just there in the background of an episode for most of the early part of season 4 so I think there is a happy medium to be had but I've found that this season pulled waaaaaaay to far back on the emotion, and again, manufactured drama is not what I mean when I say emotion.

The most recent episode "Who Are You" is a perfect example of how real, honest conflict can generate compelling viewing and drama without it being frustrating to watch. But it's take the show 10 episodes before Oliver and Felicity were in the same room and were actually being honest with each other. Early this season they let Felicity be a supported partner on the team stuff, but she was careful to point out that she couldn't talk to him about what she was going through. And after episode 5, Oliver spent 4 episodes not even talking to Felicity about anything but the case at hand.

It was like the show was so afraid that they'd be accused of melodrama that they just avoided letting Oliver and Felicity talk to each other as anything but co workers and even that was limited. Since Oliver in the past usually turned to Diggle or Felicity or even Thea to express what was really going on inside his head, no t having that this season was a huge disconnect for me to the show's main character. He talked to Susan a couple times but it was never satisfying since for one, what do I care about her character and of course since she's been set up as shady, Oliver should not be unloading on her thus making Oliver doing so an even bigger disconnect and making me even more at odds with his character. He wasn't even talking to Diggle. There was like one nice scene with Barry.

Any way what I'm saying (or trying to since this is not coming out very clear at all) is that the concentration on all the new characters and in keeping Oliver from connecting to the "vets" is what just about ruined the show for me. And I think from what you said, it was bothering you as well.

You mentioned that the team vets were becoming stale and needed some form of shake up. I honestly and truly with all my years of tv viewing experience, believe the real problem is that the team vets have been segregated from each other this year. Everyone is off in their own story. I love Thea and Diggle and Felicity and Oliver and Lance but I get tired of all of them by themselves. Being able to spark off of each other is what made Arrow so fun to watch.

My love for Arrow is based on character interaction and this season, has been brutal on that front. Oliver shows up for training and missions and then leaves. Diggle is isolated and marginalized. Felicity was for more than half the season just comic relief, missions and den mother. Thea is a talking head of the Mayoral side, quickly tossing out meaningless (to the plot) government stuff to create the illusion that Oliver has a lot on his plate. Oh and she got to chase after Lance as he AGAIN hit the bottle (I nearly can't believe they dipped back into that very repetitive well). Thea and Lance have spent more time off screen than doing anything memorable on screen.

How the vets are written really does need a shake up, but I wish they would actually look back to how they were writing the team in season one and two. They showed them working together. It really didn't matter on what. What made it interesting was them working out the details and implementing plans and dealing with what they were feeling and thinking. This year with a few exceptions, it's like the only time the team is together for fights and to suit up for missions. Maybe they've made things too easy, but I get bored to tears if the fights are just there for action scenes and don't actually have stakes or move the story forward.

Season three and four were worse with just fight after fight being dudes in masks but season five still has IMO leaned too far away from the character driven aspects of the show. Or rather they've leaned in to only the character driven parts of characters that I don't really care about. Curtis with not telling Paul, Evelyn feeling so disillusioned she switched sides, Rene with his crappy attitude. Rory I actually liked him since he tied into a bigger storyline that I wanted to see more on - his stuff was actually too rushed.

But Thea has not emotional arc this year unless being compassionate counts (it doesn't because I think she would have done that for anyone) Diggle has so much juice in his story but they are handling it terribly with him at first wanting to be punished and then letting himself be broke out but still not trying to clear his name. Felicity had Billy but she only managed to introduce him to anyone she knew in the episode he died, still couldn't bring herself to call him her boyfriend, and had more screen time with Laurel (who was already dead) than she did with Billy. Oliver brooded and then yelled and then apologized and then yelled and then apologized but it was all superficial and then hung out with Susan to talk about something meaningful only she should not be doing so with someone that hasn't a clue what he really is talking about (if not Felicity, why not Diggle or Thea??? At this point I would have taken ANY of the newbs)

What I'm saying, is there has been until pretty much the last two episodes no real emotional resonance in the series this season. (The crossover episodes I never count anymore - they barely seem like the same show sometimes)

So that's why I can't say they've struck a good balance this season. Until they let the people I am actually watching the show for interact, I'm going to find the show imbalanced. Olicity is (forgive the expression) a canary in the coal mine for all the relationship on Arrow. There's been a serious problem with how the show has moved away from letting the team be the friends and family that we used to see. The lack of Oliver and Felicity interacting is just the most obvious relationship affected.

But yes, I'm all for letting Oliver and Felicity interact with no drama other than what is true to the characters. (And not just endless stupidity for plot sake)

[President_Luthor]

While I can see why they pulled back on a more emotionally balanced Oliver in the first half - to make the allusions to S1 and the Hood - I can also appreciate how this had the effect of pulling back on his connection with existing team members. I'm of the view that the cave was too crowded and they need, and still need, to thin the ranks, but I can see how the tone reset also left Oliver with a smaller circle of confidants. With Diggle in jail, out briefly, and back in jail this duty largely fell on Thea's shoulders and Felicity was earlier preoccupied with Havenrock and the Rory situation.

Maybe they will start to balance it in the second half. What fans don't want is the pendulum swinging too far into melodrama aka Ollie second-guessing too much and vetting every decision with the team. I don't have a problem with Ollie having a team, but it should be smaller that it is. In S6 I am open to even vets being downgraded/moved/sidelined, etc to make the team leaner or give it an infusion. After five years, it is not enough for the vets to do the usual. All characters, new and old, have to make meaningful contributions to Arrow's post-S5 world. If S6 is a clean slate season, everyone will have to justify their presence on the series and seniority shouldn't be an automatic pass to stick around. Ideally, the S6 team will be a balance of new and old.

I don't have a problem with their investing more time with the newbies esp if they are sticking around beyond S5 - it is necessary legwork that unfortunately means some vets get less airtime. Whether they will use this time effectively is debatable (I don't care much for Curtis' breakup subplot- a perfect example of manufactured angst), but if the plan is to inject fresh blood in S6 then I think they needed to set up for it this season.