#4.17 "Because The Night"

[rej@ne]

I don't think Silas is ugly but they seem to be doing a Buffy The Vampire Slayer here with The First(Evil) "It" appears to people in a form they recognize? [SPOILER]Silas seems to take the form of Caroline in THU's ep? [/SPOILER]

[edit] Plus taking a form of people who are on the show already gives them time to cast "Silas".

[SPOILER]Hmmmm Like I posted before there's a theory that the torturing scene w/ Klaus and Carolina could just be Silas messing w/ Klaus' mind BUT your theory sounds much more interesting. Tomorrow. Tomorrow.[/SPOILER]

[Xanderman]

Caroline: Like, do you, like, even know how to, like, read a map, like? Like, you know? Likety likety like?
Klaus: Yes. And do you know who taught me? My friend Magellan.
Caroline: Like, whatever.
Klaus: Ugh...remind me again why I'm bloody in love with you...
Caroline: Because all vampires are huge disgusting pedophiles? Especially you?
Klaus: Besides that I mean.

But seriously, that Magellan bit was the best line in the episode.



I found it dumb (plot-hole dumb) though that Caroline was able to just super-speed in and stab the witch and kill the entire coven like that, especially after that scene earlier with Stefan where they apparently made it clear that the witches were too powerful for any vampire given the strength of their entire "secret circle". But apparently as long as they're distracted and don't see it coming then any ol' vampire can get the better of them, even a "baby vampire" like Caroline? Given how vulnerable their circle was in that moment you'd think they'd have cast some sort of protective spell around them or something so that some random blond teenage vamp couldn't just swoop in and do what she did....kinda stupid... that's the only thing that really bugged me in the episode.

[RedPhoenix23]

Caroline: Like, do you, like, even know how to, like, read a map, like? Like, you know? Likety likety like?
Klaus: Yes. And do you know who taught me? My friend Magellan.
Caroline: Like, whatever.
Klaus: Ugh...remind me again why I'm bloody in love with you...
Caroline: Because all vampires are huge disgusting pedophiles? Especially you?
Klaus: Besides that I mean.

But seriously, that Magellan bit was the best line in the episode.



I found it dumb (plot-hole dumb) though that Caroline was able to just super-speed in and stab the witch and kill the entire coven like that, especially after that scene earlier with Stefan where they apparently made it clear that the witches were too powerful for any vampire given the strength of their entire "secret circle". But apparently as long as they're distracted and don't see it coming then any ol' vampire can get the better of them, even a "baby vampire" like Caroline? Given how vulnerable their circle was in that moment you'd think they'd have cast some sort of protective spell around them or something so that some random blond teenage vamp couldn't just swoop in and do what she did....kinda stupid... that's the only thing that really bugged me in the episode.

Pfft. This is CAROLINE. She's like the Smallville Chloe. She can do EVERYTHING! Duh...

Lol, jk!

Strangely though, I actually like Caroline while I never really jumped on the Chloe bandwagon while Smallville was airing.

[Xanderman]

You're right Caroline can do everything, EXCEPT keep vampire-pedo's away from her.... Klaus is the ultimate sexual predator. But apparently part of Caroline is into that sort of thing.

Remember that scene back when Klaus was screaming "Turn it off!" to Stefan? They should do a similar scene between Klaus and Caroline:

Klaus: TAKE IT OFF!
Caroline: Take what off?
Klaus: Your blouse! TAKE. IT. OFF.
Caroline: Eww, no way you perv!

[rej@ne]

Really, I still donīt get the whole pedophille issue some of you keep bringing out! Cīmon ppl, this is a VAMPIRE show. Thereīs no such thing as pedophilles here coz this plot just doesnīt apply.
All the main female characters in the show (and I mean ALL of them ) werenīt virgins anymore when the vampires came around so they were not "pure and innocent little girls" right? caroline was the one to hit on Damon, at the first place. And Elena, was all over Stefan since the very first episode. So itīs not like the vamps raped, lured or induced the girls to have sex w/ them (which are the modus operandi of this kinda criminal). Besides, the girls were all 17 years old and trust me coz Iīm speaking as a lawyer now, no court or judge would convict an adult guy once the sex w/ a 17 year old girl was consensual unless, ofc, the girl has some mental desease (which is not the case here). The girls wanted it (and they wanted it badly) they all knew what they were doing. Calling vampires pedophiles is just so crazy and ot of context...
Sry, but I just donīt see it that way and I really donīt nderstand how some ppl got to that idea...

[Xanderman]

It's not 100% pedophilia of course, but it's pretty close given these vampire dudes are hundreds of years old and they're chasing teenage skirt. A teen is in between a child and a mature adult and represents transition years. If these guys "looked their age" they'd be beyond wrinkly old prunes, would Caroline and Elena have been attracted to these brothers at all then? Nah it's all superficial b.s. But whatever floats your boat. The TVD vamps may not be pedo's, but they're pretty darn close.

[rej@ne]

Ok, then. I respect your opinion , still I don't share or agree w/ it. Thete's no grey area concerning to pedophyles: either you are one or you are not. Like I said,vampires can't be included in this category of crminals coz it's just crazy thinking how would they look if they show their real age appearance coz they wouldn't look anything but dust once they would be dead. So it's kinda pointless bringing this out.
Butagain, it's great we can discuss this kinda serious subjects and still be respectul w/ one other when we have diferent points of view.

PS- by the way I'm not a criminal lawyet but a civil one so if it was for me all pedophyles could get locked up forever. I hate them.

[Xanderman]

Ok, then. I respect your opinion , still I don't share or agree w/ it. Thete's no grey area concerning to pedophyles: either you are one or you are not. Like I said,vampires can't be included in this category of crminals coz it's just crazy thinking how would they look if they show their real age appearance coz they wouldn't look anything but dust once they would be dead. So it's kinda pointless bringing this out.
Butagain, it's great we can discuss this kinda serious subjects and still be respectul w/ one other when we have diferent points of view.

PS- by the way I'm not a criminal lawyet but a civil one so if it was for me all pedophyles could get locked up forever. I hate them.

So if let's say a 100-year-old vampire somehow suddenly "reverted" back to human form and instantly "aged" to match their years (and didn't just become dust), does what I'm saying suddenly not become crazy or pointless? Oh and by the way, there are grey areas to almost everything, as a lawyer you should be well aware of that. A teenager (who by definition isn't quite a child anymore but not yet a mature adult either) represents an obvious grey area to me, and so matters connected to this age group are often grey by association.

Anyway, I find it amusing how the writers sort of "cover" the show and its heroes against criticisms like these in the story. For example, in our protagonist Stefan's case, he apparently was so attracted to Elena and pursued her because she was the spitting image of his old love (Katherine) -- and this is the reason he "had to know her" (ie. have sex with her) (and not because she was a hot young teen -- so if Elena was 60 years old he'd still have been infatuated with her, as long as she happened to look like his old love, thanks to this clever set-up). Stefan is clearly just a pure-of-heart romantic, not a dirty old man in any shape or form.

And, let's say that Stefan was turned into a vampire at the age of 60, and he was stuck in the appearance of "60" forever, would you and/or the general viewing audience have been fine with him going to high school with Elena and pursuing her? Would Elena have been so into him and returned his interest? The obvious answer I think is "no", it's all fine and romantic because 165-year-old great great great not-so-great grampa (or not-so-grampa) Stefan is stuck in eternal hot young underwear model form. Mr. Romantic is lucky the world is as superficial as he is (or isn't).

[rej@ne]

So if let's say a 100-year-old vampire somehow suddenly "reverted" back to human form and instantly "aged" to match their years (and didn't just become dust), does what I'm saying suddenly not become crazy or pointless? Oh and by the way, there are grey areas to almost everything, as a lawyer you should be well aware of that. A teenager (who by definition isn't quite a child anymore but not yet a mature adult either) represents an obvious grey area to me, and so matters connected to this age group are often grey by association.

Anyway, I find it amusing how the writers sort of "cover" the show and its heroes against criticisms like these in the story. For example, in our protagonist Stefan's case, he apparently was so attracted to Elena and pursued her because she was the spitting image of his old love (Katherine) -- and this is the reason he "had to know her" (ie. have sex with her) (and not because she was a hot young teen -- so if Elena was 60 years old he'd still have been infatuated with her, as long as she happened to look like his old love, thanks to this clever set-up). Stefan is clearly just a pure-of-heart romantic, not a dirty old man in any shape or form.

And, let's say that Stefan was turned into a vampire at the age of 60, and he was stuck in the appearance of "60" forever, would you and/or the general viewing audience have been fine with him going to high school with Elena and pursuing her? Would Elena have been so into him and returned his interest? The obvious answer I think is "no", it's all fine and romantic because 165-year-old great great great not-so-great grampa (or not-so-grampa) Stefan is stuck in eternal hot young underwear model form. Mr. Romantic is lucky the world is as superficial as he is (or isn't).

As a lawyer, trust me, I know there are grey areas in "almost" everything BUT like I explained pedophiles are not one of them. There is not an almost pedophille. If someone seek for having sex w/ a child or a teenager he/she IS a pedophille, even if he / she doesnīt actually do it coz the desire is there.
But what I am trying to say is that this whole pedophylle thing just doesnīt fit in these kinda vampire stories, the whole concept is not the vampires age, really, but their intentions, feelings, emotions, desires and actions despite their ages. If you pay attention a pedophille may even be married and have a family but he/she doesnīt feel satusfied by that coz his/her true desire in for children or teenagers. The vampires on the contrary, are pretty satisfied either they gave sex w/ a 17 year old or a late 20s yera od woman or even a early 40s (Iīm talking here abt Damon w Elena. Andie Star and Liz - I know henever had sex w/ the Sheriff but he could and he even pointed that once or twice)
Iīll leave things this way coz like I said I donīt see your (and some others) point of bringing the subject out. As you may know thereīs no discussion of this in any site or Forum, not abt TVD not abt any other vampire tv show or movie.

[Xanderman]

I'm really mostly pointing out the moral ambiguity behind these extremely old men pursuing much younger/much less mature teenage girls, and I use "extreme" terminology as a means mostly to drive the point home and for humor. If you see no moral ambiguity that's fine, but it's pretty obvious to me. But this is all a two-way street, as these teen girls in turn are more than happy to look the other way when it comes to the actual age of these vampire dudes because they look nothing like their actual age. It's all one finely woven superficial tapestry. Again, if 165-year-old Stefan outwardly looked like an 80-year-old fossil instead of a hot young stud I somehow don't think Elena (or viewers) could look past it.

[Sugar]

Guys, can we please stop the incest and pedophilia discussions?

(f)The following subjects are disallowed outright here on Kryptonsite in ALL FORUMS:

• incest - sexual situations between family members
• "chan" or pedophilia - sexual situations between adults and minors
• pedo-erotica - sexual situations between characters under the age of 16, even if they are both consensual. This is still ILLEGAL to read in many countries, including Australia.
• bestiality - sexual situations between humanoids and non-humanoids.!
• links to other sites that contain the above topics

[rej@ne]

Guys, can we please stop the incest and pedophilia discussions?

You are totally right. Those kinda subjects donīt belong in here.