Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "The Huntress Returns?"

[bbussey]

Don't get all the Helena hate I see on here and on the net in general. I fug last nights episode, though Roy's doucheness is going to get old. Hopefully they turn a corner with that after next weeks episode.

I also don't understand the Helena hate. Nor do I specifically understand all the Jessica De Gouw hate, both by posters and by a number of reviewers. De Gouw was fine in the three episodes she has appeared in. If she wasn't considered to be a capable actress, she wouldn't have snagged one of the leads in NBC's upcoming Dracula revival - an achievement partially due to her first Arrow stint. So hopefully this venom will start dying down when she appears in subsequent episodes.

Regarding the hate generated toward the character - I suspect that this was the "rock bottom" episode and Helena's road to redemption will begin with her next appearance, which most likely will occur in the middle of next season. The producers and cast love the actress, so pencil her in for one or two appearances annually for the run of the series as long as she is available. Since Arrow has supplanted Vampire Diaries as CW's top show in viewership, the producers have the luxury of moving certain developments along at a slower pace - particularly those which involve recurring guest stars.

I agree that the episode had some holes in it story-wise, which isn't De Gouw's fault. But it was still above average. Every series has an off episode now and then, and most of them are far below the quality of "Huntress Returns".

[snookie16]

Halberdier, this might be the trope you're looking for:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SarcasticConfession

Or possibly this one:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IgnoredConfession

I was also totally taken aback that Quentin didn't take the bait when the Huntress started talking about Oliver Queen, but then I figured that he might be too pre-occupied with his own family troubles to really pay attention....Another question-would a real police officer abandon a hand-cuffed suspect in a smoking and possibly burning building??? That seemed like a convenient plot device to enable Oliver to rescue the Huntress.

Eva

Thanks for the definitions and also I am glad I was not the only thrown off with Quetin not believing. It is understandable with his own family drama going on.

[evaba]

Hiya bbussey,

Since I wrote some pretty harsh words about Helena, I feel that I should respond to your post. I think that posters sometimes get a little carried away and write stuff like "I hate Helena" or "Helena is awful" (me!) because they are talking about fictional people, who don't exist and who can't be hurt by words or deeds. On the other hand, there are lots of real people out there in fandom who might have a soft spot for these fictional people and whose feelings might be hurt. There are certain "Arrow" forums where some posters seem to have made a sport out of trashing Laurel Lance, to the point of suggesting that she should be written out of the series. I have to admit that these comments make me feel sad and uncomfortable, since I happen to like her...Everyone is free to express their opinion of course, but I think that it's better to focus on the characters that you like rather than going after the ones you don't like, at least if you enjoy chatting with others about your fave show.

My problem with the Huntress was mainly the way she was written-if the writers decide to redeem her and make her more two-dimensional and likeable in future episodes, I would gladly welcome her back for a stint in the second season.

I have no problem whatsoever with the actress, and I think it's wonderful that she has landed a leading role on "Dracula" together with Jonathan Rhys Meyers, who is a great actor. As for your comments about the hate towards Jessica de Gouw, I personally think that demeaning comments concerning actors should be kept to a minimum on fan forums. My concern is not for the actors themselves (who probably work too hard to have any time to read fan forums!), but for other members who happen to like these actors. After all, if you're a true fan you tend to become emotionally attached to certain actors as well.

I think you should take the "hate" against the Huntress with a pinch of salt-I'm sure it will have died out if and when she returns (again!)

Dear mods: If I have again violated any forum rule (such as making blank statements about fandoms) please edit my post.

Eva

[Halberdier17]

Halberdier, this might be the trope you're looking for:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SarcasticConfession

Or possibly this one:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IgnoredConfession

I was also totally taken aback that Quentin didn't take the bait when the Huntress started talking about Oliver Queen, but then I figured that he might be too pre-occupied with his own family troubles to really pay attention....Another question-would a real police officer abandon a hand-cuffed suspect in a smoking and possibly burning building??? That seemed like a convenient plot device to enable Oliver to rescue the Huntress.

Eva

I found the one I was looking for it was Cassandra Truth.

[134sc]

I really enjoyed this episode, maybe even more than the last one.

Not much to say really, but I did want to comment on a couple things.

1) I have no problem with the Huntress. I like her character, I lime the actress and I hope to see more of her in future episodes

2) As for both Quinten and Mckenna both dismissing Oliver is the hood, I can totally understand why they would do that. If Helena had just said its Oliver Queen and left it at that, both cops would have probably loomed into it a little further. However, after Helena makes her statement she goes on to point out how Oliver is connected to both cops. I could see how both of them could view this as Helena trying to get into both their heads in an attempt to mess with them.

[Raistlin]

I watch Arrow, but I'm not loving this show. The action sequences are excellent, but I just don't really care about any of the characters. The Huntress is psycho. Her dogged determination to kill her father is mind boggling. I like(d) Katie Cassidy on Supernatural, but she is just a dud on Arrow. She doesn't have chemistry with any of the guys she's been involved with and her character is much too grim and humorless. Seriously, what does she and Tommy see in each other? I can make no sense of the island flashbacks and I don't like Oliver all that much. I don't like the way he bosses Diggs and (to a lesser extent) the blonde chick around. Exactly why should they have any loyalty to Oliver when he has a crap personality and treats them like servants? I get he's been traumatized or whatever, but all this grim intensity coupled with the constant death stares is tiresome. Whatever happened to trying to find out what his mother is involved in or trying to find Walter? Did they just drop these plots? Maybe if I had read the comic books, I'd like Arrow better, but as a casual viewer it's not grabbing me and if I'm not feeling the love after 16 episodes, I think it's pretty much a lost cause.

[bbussey]

@evaba,

While I don't understand the "hating Helena" thing, that doesn't bother me. The "hating De Gouw" posts, especially by reviewers of episodes, is slightly disturbing though.

Since the critics writing the reviews in general focused their concentration mainly on the Huntress character and the actress who portrays her, they overlooked the huge development that Frank Bertinelli is now in the wind. I would not be surprised if the next Huntress installment revolves around Frank hunting Helena rather than the reverse (which would be the one turn of events that would persuade Oliver to get involved despite Helena shooting McKenna), and I suspect that his eventual death will snap her back to sanity and put her on the path toward redemption - both in Oliver's eyes and in the eyes of the show's fans. Maybe then, people will give Jessica De Gouw some credit as she negotiates that emotional turn.

[badraven]

I suspect that this was the "rock bottom" episode and Helena's road to redemption will begin with her next appearance, which most likely will occur in the middle of next season. The producers and cast love the actress, so pencil her in for one or two appearances annually for the run of the series as long as she is available.

My thoughts exactly.

[Arrow12]

I also don't understand the Helena hate. Nor do I specifically understand all the Jessica De Gouw hate, both by posters and by a number of reviewers. De Gouw was fine in the three episodes she has appeared in. If she wasn't considered to be a capable actress, she wouldn't have snagged one of the leads in NBC's upcoming Dracula revival - an achievement partially due to her first Arrow stint. So hopefully this venom will start dying down when she appears in subsequent episodes.

The backlash surprise me too, I dont think huntress had been done differently too much from her comic counterpart. I understand why some are annoyed with some things the show has done with her, but I think there is plenty of time for redemption. And Jessica has been doing a sound job, sure her acting in the first episode was kind of sketchy but after that she got good. I see and believe her as Helena. I think some people dont realize she is Australian, and she needed time to adjust with the American accent and all, and now she is and is doing a good job with the character. The show has a lot of characters that need immediate attention but not really Huntress. She is the most interesting female character they have imo.

I like(d) Katie Cassidy on Supernatural, but she is just a dud on Arrow. She doesn't have chemistry with any of the guys she's been involved with and her character is much too grim and humorless.

This is unfortunately very true, agree except i never bought her acting in Supernatural or anywhere else. Seemed like a big mistake in casting at the time and now they are reaping the results. Her lack of chemistry, screen presence and strong acting ability was always evident to me.

There are certain "Arrow" forums where some posters seem to have made a sport out of trashing Laurel Lance, to the point of suggesting that she should be written out of the series.

Who can blame them, even I dont hate the character and think sometimes it would be better off if they wrote her out, both the writing and the actress are failing the character. What else is there to do under the circumstances. The show is partly responsible to for turning the character into a hated figure. They encourage it when they write her purposeless like that and did not bother to find a strong actress at all.

[evaba]

Hi everyone,

I'm starting to think that I shouldn't have brought up the subject of Katie Cassidy at all, since this seems to have turned out to be just the kind of discussion that I thought should be avoided on fan forums, that is comments concering individual actors. First of all, there are plenty of viewers who like her interpretation of Laurel just fine, judging by my experiences from reading other forums. I have no problem with Katie's version of Laurel Lance, and I think she has some good scenes, especially her scenes with Quentin (for example when he sets her up to catch the Hood). And while we're speaking of mis-casting, I can think of a number of actors that could possibly be replaced with good results, but you know, I try to focus on the good parts rather than being annoyed by something that can't/won't be changed anyway. "Arrow" currently has an audience that probably approximates some 50 million by now, counting the international viewership (3,5 million only in Italy)- if that audience keeps tuning in, the writers are not going to make any major changes in the cast or the basic formula, no matter what some parts of the Internet fandom says or thinks.

In general (and I hope I can say this without sounding condescending!), if you watch television for the acting, I'd say the normal CW fare is not your first choice...at least not in comparison to shows like "Downton Abbey", where you get top notch actors, down to the kitchen maid who only gets five minutes of acting time per episode. I will unabashedly confess that Stephen Amell and his gorgeousness (and abs!) is my major reason for watching "Arrow", plus the fact that he (most of the time) turns out fine acting performances. As for the plot, it's the "Undertaking" arc is and the Island flashbacks that keep me coming back, while the "villain of the week" is the least interesting IMHO.


Chemistry between characters is obviously very much in the eyes of the beholder. I mean, I have read widely diverging opinions concerning various TV couples and their "chemistry". I think there is enough chemistry between Oliver/Stephen and Laurel/Katie to make me believe in their romance. As for Tommy and Laurel....my main problem is with Tommy, who until quite recently has been such a bland character that I haven't been able to become engaged in him that much. Most of the time he seems to be going around spouting clichés, such as "When you're together with someone there are only....times" (or something like that!). Poor Donnell, he has been saddled with some terrible dialogue! It wasn't really until episode 16 that he had the chance to show his acting chops and it wasn't until then that I started to find Tommy interesting. I know that there are lot of "Olicity" shippers out there, but personally I don't see any love chemistry between Ollie and Felicity, not because of the actors, but because, as far as I can see, there is no romance "in the script". I'm probably an old-fashioned viewer, but unless I sense that the writers want me to believe that two people are in love with each other, I'm not buying. The only thing I see in the Oliver/Felicity scenes is that he admires her computer skills and that he finds her amusing and likeable (and somewhat exasperating when she goes off on a tangent!). Right now at least, I don't see them falling madly in love with each other. And I am probably the only person in fandom who finds that her "socially incompetent geeky computer girl" routine is getting a bit tiresome by now...I think Emily B.-R/Felicity deserves to get some more dramatic scenes that go beyond that stereotype.

To make this post a little more on-topic (though I guess I wasn't to first to stray off-topic!) I should say something about the Huntress. I think that the major reason why many viewers had a problem with her was not the killings (after all, Oliver has also killed a bunch of people!), but the fact that she was portrayed as totally irrational and without any redeeming qualities. The actress also seems to have had a problem with her American accent, which (in my eyes) made her acting unnessarily "stiff". I just found it very hard to like her or to emphathize with her. OK, so her Dad killed her fiancée, but is that a reason for going on a rampage, killing tens of innocent people who are just doing their job? And is jealousy really a legitimate reason for putting an arrow through someone? I think the writers did the Huntress character a disservice in this ep and I can't really figure out their rationale for portraying her the way they did.

Anyway, I'm not going to say anything more on this subject. We all have diverging opinions concerning characters and actors, their "chemistry" etc...but that's what they are...opinions, rather than facts set in stone.

Eva

[spotteddog]

I just don't understand why people feel the need to go after the actors. The characters - sure, I get that. But the actors? This reminds me of the stuff that Kristen Kreuk and Erica Durance had written about them.

I just don't get it.

Anyhow - I thought this was a very good episode, not great but very good. And that is sort of how I feel about Arrow right now, but do believe that the show is still growing and has not seen it's best days yet.

[Raistlin]

In general (and I hope I can say this without sounding condescending!), if you watch television for the acting, I'd say the normal CW fare is not your first choice...at least not in comparison to shows like "Downton Abbey", where you get top notch actors, down to the kitchen maid who only gets five minutes of acting time per episode. I will unabashedly confess that Stephen Amell and his gorgeousness (and abs!) is my major reason for watching "Arrow", plus the fact that he (most of the time) turns out fine acting performances. As for the plot, it's the "Undertaking" arc is and the Island flashbacks that keep me coming back, while the "villain of the week" is the least interesting IMHO.

Speaking for myself, I tune in week after week for a television show for the overall experience. If I am drawn in by most aspects, I can overlook a few irritants. If the show fails me on every level I'm going to be very inclined to notice everything that bugs me and speak on it. My previous post pretty much says how I feel about Arrow. Stephen Amell is buff (I have eyes and enjoy eye candy as much as the next person), but good actor? No, I'm afraid not. He may get better as time goes by, but he is only one of Arrow's problems in my book.

Chemistry between characters is obviously very much in the eyes of the beholder.

I guess but if 9 out of 10 people don't see it, I'm going to have to come down on the side of no chemistry. I find precious little of it in Arrow's cast and especially between the so-called romantic couples.

I just don't understand why people feel the need to go after the actors. The characters - sure, I get that. But the actors? This reminds me of the stuff that Kristen Kreuk and Erica Durance had written about them.

I don't go for personally attacking actors; however, judging their performances in a given role is an entirely different matter. Katie Cassidy is the reason I started watching Arrow, but her Laurel just sucks. I like the Paul Blackthorne, too, but he is highly annoying in Arrow. What is it with this show? Do they intentionally bring out the worst in actors because the characters they've been saddled with are causing me to cringe whenever I see them on screen.

[Arrow12]

I just don't understand why people feel the need to go after the actors. The characters - sure, I get that. But the actors? This reminds me of the stuff that Kristen Kreuk and Erica Durance had written about them.

Noone is going after the actors here thats a totally different thing, we are talking strictly about their acting ability and portrayal, thats totally fair game. Bad acting, bad chemistry , bad potrayal does affect characters and the show overall. There is a difference between attacking actors personal life, for shipping reasons, what not and critiquing their acting ability. its not fair to lump everyone in the same box. If I look into the smallville forums there have always been threads that discuss and talk about actors abilities and compare them after each episode. There is nothing at all wrong with that, as long as it stays on that topic. Thats not inappropriate discussions and not against forum rules.

I'm starting to think that I shouldn't have brought up the subject of Katie Cassidy at all, since this seems to have turned out to be just the kind of discussion that I thought should be avoided on fan forums, that is comments concering individual actors. First of all, there are plenty of viewers who like her interpretation of Laurel just fine, judging by my experiences from reading other forums.

And a lot who dont, and we are just as free to speak our opinions, as those who are enjoying it. If we don't talk about this here, on show forums then where should we talk about it on, one way or other it was going to be eventually be brought up someday. The actress, miscasting and lack of acting ability etc is a problem that some see affecting the character and maybe the show. Why would we pretend there is nothing wrong, when we can see there is. We can agree to disagree.

Anyway, I'm not going to say anything more on this subject. We all have diverging opinions concerning characters and actors, their "chemistry" etc...but that's what they are...opinions, rather than facts set in stone.

What isnt? diverging i mean. we all have different opinions on just about everything. The fact that this thread has the title Loved it, hate it? shows very much its a thread open to diverging opinions. Forums, discussion boards wouldnt exists if we were to shy away from diverging opinions and we all had to have the same opinions. Those who want to talk or discuss about characters/actors/chemistry after each episode and how those things pertains to the episodes can and should. It is very much on topic. Someone is free to say that they didnt enjoy The huntress returns because, "X or Y wasnt a good actor, X& Y didnt not have chemistry, they didnt like a certain X character" for example, thats something that relates to the episodes. There is nothing to take personally here as long as its said in a respectful manner and not addressing anything outside the actors' portrayal and acting ability.

[evaba]

Got your message, Arrow12, loud and clear. I've been a member of quite a few TV show forums where comments about actors were not encouraged because they tend to become divisive, but if this is the way things are done on the K-site forums, I will of course comply with forum rules. Also, if I came across as condescending, it wasn't my intention.

Eva

[Stebob1984]

Welcome back Arrow.,, I missed this show and it was only off the air two weeks imagine what it's gonna be like when season one has finished.

I was so happy to see the show back and to see it come back with a bang. This obviously wasn't as good as the last episode which was by far the best of the series. But this was still a top rated episode.

To switch my male brain on here the actress who plays Huntress is incredibly hit and the opening had me all but for some reason (hotness aside) she really annoys me, I think she's kind of corny and I'm not a massive fan if the mask. I had my first roll my eyes moment with this show aswell when
Huntress caught the arrow

Back to the episode, first thing I'm gonna mention is how awesome the score is on this show. I don't know if they get different composers or not but whoevers doing these scores is fantastic. Secondly as always the action was top notch, loved the chase with the vans aswell as Huntress vs Arrow.

So McKenna 's been shot and now written out for a while at least, I wonder if that's to do with her ties to True Blood? Anyway it's gonna be a same for her to be written out for a while cause I really liked her.

Island gap flashbacks again were awesome, I love Slade Wilson in this show cannot wait to see more if him.

Lastly, Roy Harper, I think Colton Heynes is such a great choice for this character, was so happy to see him back and I love the slow build he's getting on the show.

Overall rating a very high 8/10