#8.10 "Torn and Frayed"

[devlin]

Eight episodes so far from what I know and that Cas shows up in episode 2 first and then again in episode 5.



Didn't quite mean it like that. Only stating since a more important character died, I don't understand the reasoning of keeping a lesser important that has been dwindled down to just a plot device.



It isn't debatable at all because Bobby acted and was a father figure to Sam and Dean. I don't see how an angel is more important or more significant to anybody over a father figure on the series.



And realistically, all of that "personal trajectory" ended up working as him being some plot device to further the storyline.



I don't see how it got better just because Castiel showed up. Granted, season five and four are my personal favorite seasons, but that's not because of only Castiel. The 66 Seals, the Apocalypse...those are the elements that made those seasons my favorite, but season two was where it was at, imo, when it came to vibrant characters. I only wished Ash and the Harvelles showed up more than they did.

And how could we really say the writers are smart enough to do something to Castiel when Sera Gamble obviously couldn't? She was part of the series when Castiel first showed up so I can't put the blame solely on Gamble for messing up Cas. Imo, Carver needs to do the wise thing and just cut ties with Castiel.

Obviously we see things differently in a big way and that's fine. Fundamentally don't think Cas has dwindled down to plot points at all as I already explained. So no need whatsoever to kill him. That Bobby was killed is irrelevant to Cas. With regards to who is most important--I already stated i'd pick Bobby slightly over Cas BUT I also said I can see the other side and that it's debatable because they are the 2 most characters after the boys...Cas being connected strongly to the boys, especially Dean. And I didn't say Cas made S4+5 great by himself BUT he certainly helped. With regards to Gamble, she kinda stumbled as show runner--I have much more faith in Carver listening to his comments and direction and knowing his quality work as a show runner already. With that said Sera didn't mess up Cas imo--except using him too little...Carver has already corrected that. To me Sera messed up Dean more in S6 with the bore story of Lisa.

[Anu]

I think there's something wrong with Anno. He can't take a little criticsm. Not everyone's in love with Dean.

[Anno_Domini]

Obviously we see things differently in a big way and that's fine. Fundamentally don't think Cas has dwindled down to plot points at all as I already explained. So no need whatsoever to kill him. That Bobby was killed is irrelevant to Cas. With regards to who is most important--I already stated i'd pick Bobby slightly over Cas BUT I also said I can see the other side and that it's debatable because they are the 2 most characters after the boys...Cas being connected strongly to the boys, especially Dean. And I didn't say Cas made S4+5 great by himself BUT he certainly helped. With regards to Gamble, she kinda stumbled as show runner--I have much more faith in Carver listening to his comments and direction and knowing his quality work as a show runner already. With that said Sera didn't mess up Cas imo--except using him too little...Carver has already corrected that. To me Sera messed up Dean more in S6 with the bore story of Lisa.

No need to bring up Lisa and Ben. Mostly everyone hated the Lisa/Dean storyline, but that doesn't help anyone's point. As I said, Gamble was there from the beginning of Castiel; she knew what kind of character he was and she, and the writers, still did what they did with the character and it's a bit frightening that people would put so much faith into Carver for making Castiel "right" again...what if he doesn't? Will we bash Carver next?

I think there's something wrong with Anno. He can't take a little criticsm. Not everyone's in love with Dean.

Hah....is that your response seeing how you can't take any criticism in regards to Castiel? Someone mentioned Castiel has to go but you hate hearing that because you love to watch The Castiel Show.

[Anu]

No need to bring up Lisa and Ben. Mostly everyone hated the Lisa/Dean storyline, but that doesn't help anyone's point. As I said, Gamble was there from the beginning of Castiel; she knew what kind of character he was and she, and the writers, still did what they did with the character and it's a bit frightening that people would put so much faith into Carver for making Castiel "right" again...what if he doesn't? Will we bash Carver next?



Hah....is that your response seeing how you can't take any criticism in regards to Castiel? Someone mentioned Castiel has to go but you hate hearing that because you love the watch The Castiel Show.

I'm not watching The Castiel show. I'm watching the show with a good guy angel and two douchebags.

[Anno_Domini]

I'm not watching The Castiel show. I'm watching the show with a good guy angel and two douchebags.

The Castiel Show apparently.

[Anu]

The Castiel Show apparently.

If you see it that way, so. But I don't think you know what real friends are. Castiel is one of them and Dean is not.

[The Magnificent One]

A fanboy in a lonely room
Lacking logic and self-awareness
For a long time he will bïtch
He goes on and on and and on...


Please stop fanboyin'

[devlin]

No need to bring up Lisa and Ben. Mostly everyone hated the Lisa/Dean storyline, but that doesn't help anyone's point. As I said, Gamble was there from the beginning of Castiel; she knew what kind of character he was and she, and the writers, still did what they did with the character and it's a bit frightening that people would put so much faith into Carver for making Castiel "right" again...what if he doesn't? Will we bash Carver next?



Hah....is that your response seeing how you can't take any criticism in regards to Castiel? Someone mentioned Castiel has to go but you hate hearing that because you love to watch The Castiel Show.

I only mentioned the Lisa story to illustrate my point that Sera was a shaky show runner and also IMO wrote worse for Dean than Cas...and IMO the Cas arc was very interesting. I realize you disagree. With regards to Carver, I have high hopes and am looking forward to season 8 for Dean, Sam, Cas, Crowley and the new characters.

[devlin]

I'm not watching The Castiel show. I'm watching the show with a good guy angel and two douchebags.

No the show is about the boys along with a great support character in Cas. The boys are the heart of the show who thrive when they bounce off interesting characters.

[Anno_Domini]

If you see it that way, so. But I don't think you know what real friends are. Castiel is one of them and Dean is not.

When you say "good guy angel and two douchebags" that tells me that you're only watching The Castiel Show, as well as only caring about Castiel over Sam and Dean themselves.

And...a good friend? Really? Trying to open Purgatory and saying he's doing it because of Dean is being a good friend? Granted, we know season six and seven has had some bad writing with certain characters, but it's still canon.

I only mentioned the Lisa story to illustrate my point that Sera was a shaky show runner and also IMO wrote worse for Dean than Cas...and IMO the Cas arc was very interesting. I realize you disagree. With regards to Carver, I have high hopes and am looking forward to season 8 for Dean, Sam, Cas, Crowley and the new characters.

I just think that to a point, fans may backlash at Carver if he ends up killing off Castiel. I hope that doesn't happen, but I know how fans can react.

[Anu]

When you say "good guy angel and two douchebags" that tells me that you're only watching The Castiel Show, as well as only caring about Castiel over Sam and Dean themselves.

And...a good friend? Really? Trying to open Purgatory and saying he's doing it because of Dean is being a good friend? Granted, we know season six and seven has had some bad writing with certain characters, but it's still canon.



I just think that to a point, fans may backlash at Carver if he ends up killing off Castiel. I hope that doesn't happen, but I know how fans can react.

God you have to be stupid if you didn't notice that Cas had no other choice than to open purgatory to save everyone. And he didn't want to include Dean in the first place because he got out. That's what a good friend does. He had no choice. He did it to save humans. He didn't want the apocalypse to start over again. God I'm a bit tired to say this all the time.

[gmster]

I'm watching the show with a good guy angel and two douchebags.

Wow.

Just get out.

[luisl]

This is stupid.

[Anno_Domini]

God you have to be stupid if you didn't notice that Cas had no other choice than to open purgatory to save everyone.

Surprise attack Raphael and stab him in the back with an angel blade. So easy a demon could do it(Meg).

And he didn't want to include Dean in the first place because he got out. That's what a good friend does. He had no choice. He did it to save humans. He didn't want the apocalypse to start over again. God I'm a bit tired to say this all the time.

Hahaha, but a good friend would team up with a demon. Again, your logic is fascinating.

[Anu]

Surprise attack Raphael and stab him in the back with an angel blade. So easy a demon could do it(Meg).



Hahaha, but a good friend would team up with a demon. Again, your logic is fascinating.

I think you're stupid. But Raphael was clearly stronger than Cas.