Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ORACLE and VESSEL Official Re-Watch Thread, June 22nd, 2012

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Leanerlaura

    Aaaand onto Vessel *fangirl squeal*
    Originally posted by Leanerlaura
    Nosy Lionel sneaking around the barn, “What does Jor El want you to do with the dagger” …the awkward moment when Clark has to murder your son
    Lionel's reaction is amazing. He beleives he gave Clark sound advice about killing the vessel, but when he realizes it is his son... Even though he knows Le'x true nature, and that it makes him the perfect vessel for Zod, he is still his son. JG really did a great job here.

    Originally posted by Leanerlaura
    “The truth” Lana’s favourite word
    At least when it concerns someone telling her the truth. When the roles are reversed, not so much... You can already see some of Lex's traits rubbing off on her here

    Originally posted by Leanerlaura
    I like Fine’s observation about humans and technology, because it’s actually very true, we are so reliant on technology these days
    It is sad how believable it is that riots would ensue so quickly

    Originally posted by Leanerlaura
    N’awwwww Chlarky kiss, love it….
    Awesome scene!

    Originally posted by Leanerlaura
    I always like screech at the screen at the point where Lois tries to get the oxygen masks…so close Lois…oh so close
    Should've gone for the masks before she went pounding on the door of the cockpit. I guess they were already on limited oxygen and it affected her judgment...

    Originally posted by Leanerlaura
    Aaand what a Cliffhanger, thank god we only have to wait a week eh?
    Indeed. It was a very long wait at the time!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by skully
      I clearly remember thinking "what the hell?" when Brainiac injected Lex and trashed the lab.
      Yeah. If anybody had cared to tell him about Milton Fine trying to free Zod things would have turned out differently. But at least somewhere on the planet they have the super-vaccine. I would love it if someday it would indeed save mankind.

      BTW, as Lana now told Lex that those aliens from the black ship react to meteor rock (and Brainiac even confirming it) Lex knows that Clark is such an alien, too. Lex has witnessed him feeling ill whenever close to those meteor rocks since the very first episode. Of course, it agrees to Clark and the symbols on the black ship and the caves and the stones. Just wanted to point it out that whatever speculation Lex might have had about Clark's origin he knows for sure now.

      ----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

      Originally posted by SGuthrie27
      That's what bothers me about practically EVERY character on this show. No matter how many times Clark saves them, warns them about dangers, is proven right, etc., he ends up mistrusted, second-guessed, and yelled at -- and without good reason.
      You know how it is: no good deed goes unpunished.
      Last edited by Freawaru; 06-24-2012, 10:21 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Freawaru
        What do you expect to have happen if he had ?

        I think at that time he already had destroyed the virus and made sure that the vaccine was spread around the world in case it was needed.
        Lex was too involved with Fine by the time Lionel gave him this advice for him to have been able to have gotten out, I think. And Lex was actually aware that he needed to be careful of Fine. He was actually trying to do the right thing here. I don't think he succeeded, though. It looked to me like all the serum was still in the one location and that Fine destroyed it all.


        Originally posted by Freawaru
        Sure he had. He has superpowers.
        I don't think that superpowers would have helped him here - he can't be everywhere at once and didn't know anyhting about "the weapon" until after the meeting in question. Still, I agree that he was hasty in jumping to the wrong conclusion. He could definitely have done more to find out what the weapon was.


        Originally posted by Freawaru
        Yep. They are so cute together.
        Not me - I will admit that Lana and Lex were actually better suited to one another than Lana and Clark, but I definitely did not enjoy the Lexana in S5. It felt a little off somehow.


        Originally posted by Freawaru
        Yes. I felt that way, too. In fact in all scenes Jonathan appears after his death. Even in the visions. Something is not quite right.
        Nice work by Schneider to portray the subtle difference.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MrsK
          Why does everyone else who gets Clark-like powers adjust to them so easily, but Clark had such trouble with each one initially?
          Because he was raised by the Kents. He just can't let go of his fear.

          ----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

          Originally posted by MrsK
          Interesting contrast in the way Clark revealed his powers to Lana in Reckoning at the Fortress with the way Lex does here, but shooting his hand.
          He wanted to show her that he has the powers of the aliens of the black ship. Lana gets this. Lex wanted her to understand fully what he had become.
          Last edited by Freawaru; 06-24-2012, 10:34 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Freawaru
            Still, I have wondered why Brainac tried to make Clark kill Lionel. He probably knew that Lionel was Jor El's vessel but why kill him? As we see in the next ep Lionel is not able to prevent Brainiac's plan.
            I think he realized that Jor-El was a big threat to him, and it would be easier to accomplish his ends without him around. Given that Jor-El was able to destroy him, at least temporarily with just a touch, that is probably his concern. Also, he probably knew how wracked with guilt and doubt Clark would end up being if he did take a life, so it would make him easier to defeat.

            Originally posted by Freawaru
            And then I wondered if this was a test. Brainiac's plan B to free Zod was to have Clark connect him with that knife to Jor El, right? So Brainiac needed to create a situation in which Clark would push it into him. What happened in Oracle, namely Clark attacking Brainiac instead of killing Lionel showed him that Clark might do the same if he tried to make him kill Lex with that dagger from Jor El.

            What do you think?
            Could be.


            Originally posted by Freawaru
            Implanted a bug or virus or whatever?
            Maybe, but how? Lionel just happened to have it on him when Jor-El took over? Given that Jor-El is nothing more than a computer program, I suppose that it is possible...



            Originally posted by Freawaru
            Well, I guess it is what she expects from Lex, but not from Clark. Did she ever find out that he spied on her years before they came into Highschool?
            I think she knew. She made several comments about the telescope over the years.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by skully
              Ah, there's Freawaru's phone call scene.
              I, too, think it must have been Brainiac. He was controling the computers, right? He might have known somehow (hidden cameras observing Chloe's working place for example) and made the call. But it was never clarified, right?

              ----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

              Originally posted by MrsK
              He does an outstanding job in this entire scene.
              I got the odd impression Clark and Lex don't really talk about the same subject here. Clark wants Lex to fight being possesed by Zod, while Lex seems to want to find out if Clark would really kill him as Lana said.
              Last edited by Freawaru; 06-24-2012, 10:53 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Leanerlaura
                You know what he should have done with those tickets? Called Pete and gone with him instead
                That would habe been great. Maybe he even did. If I recall correctly it was Pete who tried hard to be MIA.

                It’s JONATHAN!!!!!! Looking back at this scene knowing what I know now, he actually does act kinda like Fine, the way he paces when he says “so many people” and the way he says that line too
                Great actor and great directing.

                Uh Oh Lex is getting in over his head me thinks, at least he figured out Fine wasn’t to be trusted, but Lana to the rescue, revealing the Kryptonian’s weakness, now you’d think Lex would put two and two together and figure out that Clark always gets sick around meteor rocks
                You know, that is actually why I think Lex knew this all along. In Onyx evil Lex knows immediately that it was the meteor rock that made Clark ill. And this is the only episode in which Clark's excuse (namely the apple) is actually sound. So how did evil Lex know? I think Lex knew since he gave Lana's neglace back to Clark - he had even put it inside a lead box to shield the radiation. And in "Memoria" season three he frees Clark from he meteor liquid by destroying the tank instead of simply turning his head around so he could breathe again.

                I love the Lex and Fine scenes
                They are a real treasure.

                Ooooh Clark goes all dark and dangerous, I love how they have the two ‘father figures’ talking to Clark both trying to convince him like the angel and the devil on his shoulder
                I also thought it interesting that Clark goes all "kneel before Clark" here. Looks like this is not just a Zod thingy.

                So… Fine’s holding a big old needle and grabs hold of your arm and Lex just stands there?
                I think he was surprised. He must have expected Fine to kill him any time soon and wondered why Fine kept him around to talk. As to just standing there, this is typically Lex, he never moves when he is in the power of somebody. Compare to his behaviour in "Jitters" and also the many times Clark threatens him.

                I like Fine’s observation about humans and technology, because it’s actually very true, we are so reliant on technology these days
                I agree. At times I even think of it as a weakness.

                ----- Added 17 Minutes later -----

                Originally posted by MrsK

                It bothers me that Lex is so adamant that he didn't take Lana from Clark. Has he forgotten his blatant effort to break them up in Hypnotic?
                I think he means that Lana had learned of Clark having been hypnotized and she had forgiven him. It had been Clark who decided to ditch her. I supposed that Lana had told him (or at least hinted at) about how they broke up.

                Also the whole idea that Lana left Clark, that he lost her that completely ignores what actually happened. It is certainly the way Clark looks at it as well, and granted, they had their problems that mostly had to do with his secret, but let's remember who told whom that he didn't love her when she was ready to stay with him.
                All in all, it seemed to me that Lex always wanted Lana to be with Clark. Even though he loved her himself. I guess he would have preferred Chloe with Clark like in his Lexmas vision but as this was not to be he wanted it to be Clark and Lana. There were several motives for it. One, he didn't want to be like King David who killed his best friend because he fell in love with his wife. Second, he knew that Clark needed some motivation to do something, save people, save humankind. To have someone to do all this for is a rational argument if you want him to interfere. Lex was in full "save the world" mode after the second meteor shower, from a strategic point of view it would have been wrong to separate Clark and Lana.

                Interesting that he chooses to keep that from Lana; he really isn't capable of being completely honest with anyone, is he?
                He is a Luthor. He won't tell anybody everything but those he trusts he would allow to find out the truth themselves. We see it in season six with Lana. At first he confides in her, but later he tries to prompt her to spy on him, because that is the Luthor way. He plays it with Lionel all the time.

                ----- Added 33 Minutes later -----

                Originally posted by MrsK
                Lex was too involved with Fine by the time Lionel gave him this advice for him to have been able to have gotten out, I think.
                I even suspect he never had a chance anyway. Fine had already picked him as his Plan B vessel for Zod early in the season. We see Fine being quite happy about Lex's reactions all through the season as if congratulating himself for his choice.

                And Lex was actually aware that he needed to be careful of Fine. He was actually trying to do the right thing here. I don't think he succeeded, though. It looked to me like all the serum was still in the one location and that Fine destroyed it all.
                I have no proof but I doubt was destroyed. Lex knew that Fine was a hostile alien for weeks. He destroyed the compound virus as soon as possible. When he finally confronted Fine, hoping the metor rock would give him a chance, he knew it could fail, too. Also, in the end of the ep he tells Clark that Luthorcorp has the super- vaccine now.

                I don't think that superpowers would have helped him here - he can't be everywhere at once and didn't know anyhting about "the weapon" until after the meeting in question. Still, I agree that he was hasty in jumping to the wrong conclusion. He could definitely have done more to find out what the weapon was.
                You know, what irritates me the whole time about Clark is that he is so nonchalant regarding the Kawatchee prophesy. It dominated Lex's behaviour but Clark just treats Lex as an enemy by accusing him of something (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly). If I was Clark I would have tried to find out as much as possible about my future (or present) arch-enemy. But Clark seems to live in complete denial, hiding in his little Kent world, as if everything was okay except for Lexana.

                Not me - I will admit that Lana and Lex were actually better suited to one another than Lana and Clark, but I definitely did not enjoy the Lexana in S5. It felt a little off somehow.
                I guess it simply felt like a relief to finally have a boyfriend of Lana who does not baby her all the time.

                ----- Added 39 Minutes later -----

                Originally posted by MrsK
                I think he realized that Jor-El was a big threat to him, and it would be easier to accomplish his ends without him around. Given that Jor-El was able to destroy him, at least temporarily with just a touch, that is probably his concern. Also, he probably knew how wracked with guilt and doubt Clark would end up being if he did take a life, so it would make him easier to defeat.
                Maybe.

                At times I wonder if the two A.I.'s were having their own little war with each other and Clark never found out. I mean, they were in close contact several times and could have tried to rewrite the program of the other.

                Maybe, but how? Lionel just happened to have it on him when Jor-El took over? Given that Jor-El is nothing more than a computer program, I suppose that it is possible...
                It looked to me as if the connection between Lionel and Jor El was non-stop. At times Jor El used him to write down messages for Clark at others he took his body to do whatever he wanted him to do. Lionel was Jor El's link to Clark as Clark didn't return to the fortress to finish his tutorial.

                I think she knew. She made several comments about the telescope over the years.
                Ah! I have to look for those.
                Last edited by Freawaru; 06-25-2012, 12:45 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Freawaru

                  Ah! I have to look for those.
                  Off the top of my head:
                  In Metamorphosis Clark found her in the loft looking through the telescope and she commented, "Did you know you can see my house from here?"

                  In Ryan when she was going to move in with Chloe, and Clark noted that she wouldn't be the girl next door anymore, she said, "Maybe now you can give your telescope to Ryan."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MrsK
                    Off the top of my head:
                    In Metamorphosis Clark found her in the loft looking through the telescope and she commented, "Did you know you can see my house from here?"

                    In Ryan when she was going to move in with Chloe, and Clark noted that she wouldn't be the girl next door anymore, she said, "Maybe now you can give your telescope to Ryan."


                    She isn't all stupid, our Lana, right? No wonder she took it quite well when she found out that Lex had been peeping on her, too. Just the second boyfriend to have done that. Of course, it is still some years until she learns what Clark can actually see through and that he does not even need a telescope for it.

                    Comment


                    • Just one thing from me - I loved the glimmer of care from Clark about Lex in this episode.

                      Oh okay, one more thing - I've read a few people saying that they don't think Lex was completely in control, especially just before Zod is actually released in the barn, and I tend to agree. What he says about wanting Clark's life doesn't seem to ring true to me completely - although of course, SV often switched character motivation if it suited them, so it could be a case of that.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X
                      😀
                      🥰
                      🤢
                      😎
                      😡
                      👍
                      👎