I knew Lucifer wasn't just a figment of Sam's imagination

[xrayvision]

This episode made it clear that the Lucifer Sam has been seeing isn't just a figment of Sam's imagination. From what happened this season, it seems like Lucifer had power over Sam until Sam shut him out as seen by the torture early on in the season and especially when Lucifer drove Sam in that car/van when Sam was in the passenger seat. So after that Sam learned of a way to shut him out. But Lucifer learned how to get back in control of Sam's mind.

In this episode we saw Lucifer help Sam with the case. If he was just Sam's imagination, Sam's imagination wouldn't have figured out those clues & resorted to those harsher tactics. But Lucifer's presence was still there & knew that if Sam let him back in, he would take control of Sam's mind again. So he got Sam to let his guard down & trust him only to trick him in the end. I still think whatever he did to Sam to latch onto his soul was done not primarily for torture, but as a way of getting Sam to break him & perhaps Michael free from the cage once again.

This Lucifer seems like a copy of the actual Lucifer that he branded Sam's soul with like another personality of Sam's. But it's definitely not your average alternate personality that someone with multiple personality syndrome would have because he has powers that manifest through Sam's body, like when he drove that van. Now that he has gained more control of Sam, I wonder what else he will do.

[Anno_Domini]

It's still part of Sam's imagination, so to speak. If it was really Lucifer, or some type of copy, it would've been Samifer, but it's only Nick.

[xrayvision]

I don't think they're showing Sam as Lucifer anymore because the powers that be like Mark Pellegrino's performance & Mark portrayed Lucifer for the majority of season 5. And by using Mark, they avoid confusing the viewers with using Jared in a dual Sam/Lucifer role. Also Sam's imagination can't drive a car, can't help realize details in hunts/cases that Sam himself doesn't realize, and can't suddenly take over Sam's psyche like he did at the end. If he was simply Sam's imagination, nothing would have changed, Sam would know it & would once again bury him to the back of his mind. Instead he's growing in power & is taking over Sam's mind after Sam let him in. There's definitely more than Sam's imagination at work here.

[Anno_Domini]

I don't think they're showing Sam as Lucifer anymore because the powers that be like Mark Pellegrino's performance & Mark portrayed Lucifer for the majority of season 5.

That may be fine with the studio/producers/what not, but I think bringing in Mark has to do with more of the story itself.

And by using Mark, they avoid confusing the viewers with using Jared in a dual Sam/Lucifer role.

What would be so confusing? It would be as awesome as the conversation between regular Sam and Samifer seen in "Swan Song". Besides, it wouldn't confuse anyone who's well into the mythology of the show and it'll be as confusing as someone just watching "Repo Man" as his or hers first experience of this series with someone calling himself Lucifer showing up.

Also Sam's imagination can't drive a car,

But something only attached to his soul can drive a car? That's still not enough relative explanation or even plausible.

can't help realize details in hunts/cases that Sam himself doesn't realize,

Well even as a piece of imagination or something stuck inside Sam's head, he is Lucifer and he should know about pretty much everything about his children such as knowing that a demon wouldn't need to use tranquilizers.

and can't suddenly take over Sam's psyche like he did at the end.

And a lot of people who are insane would beg otherwise. They see things as much as Sam can see Lucifer. And they hear things as much as Sam hears Lucifer.

If he was simply Sam's imagination, nothing would have changed, Sam would know it & would once again bury him to the back of his mind. Instead he's growing in power & is taking over Sam's mind after Sam let him in. There's definitely more than Sam's imagination at work here.

Well, for one, Lucifer is growing in power in more ways than just Sam speaking to him. His scar has been fully healed, the only thing that doesn't make him crack is fully healed. That scar was Sam's alcohol or drugs so to speak; he's out of options so the wall comes crumbling down. He's just going through another mental state, which is why Dean takes him to a psych ward...it's all in his head. If it wasn't just in his head and actually a real piece of Lucifer, it'd be hard to imagine that Sam would still be alive. The Devil would have taken his toll on him as soon as the wall broke.

[luisl]

is an hallucination LOL

[Mischael12]

I just find it odd that Death as Powerful as he is...wouldn't have noticed that Lucifer hitched a ride....

[Clois4eva89]

I think it's all in Sam's head he's grown so dependent to his cut from 'meet the new boss'.To drive away Lucifer that the effect doesn't work anymore now it's going to be harder for Sam. I think Sam imagined the car ride in the first episode of the season.

[hellnback]

i find it funny that mark has played around with two characters minds this year on two different shows. first he's popping up in Sam's mind on supernatural, then 3 nights later he pops up in Aiden's mind on Being Human. he seems to enjoy these types of characters.

[sv&spn-girl]

he wouldn't have killed him right away. he is the master torturer. he enjoys playing with sam's head & wouldn't throw that all away in one fell swoop. and what xrayvision said is true, sam's imagination can't drive a car, but neither can a hallucination. so how did sam get to the warehouse where dean found him? that made me consider the possibility that lucifer is actually out of the cage again, and no longer just in sam's imagination. that's not to say he can't be both in different instances, further confusing sam as to which is real.

[Clois4eva89]

sv&spn-girl we don't know how far Sam was from the warehouse in the episode it's very plausible. That Sam could have imagine he was riding in the Impala to the location when in reality he simply walked there. Or you could just go with continuity error to erase the brief thought of Lucifer being back in reality. When for most of Mark's scene show him vanish which shows us Lucifer isn't part of reality.

[sv&spn-girl]

lucifer can choose to be seen or not to be, just as vas chose not to be seen all those times when he just stood by and watched them talking about him. I asked my sister what she thought, and she thinks the whole part in the car was just something lucifer placed in sam's head, that he just angel-zapped him to the warehouse, but that it's possible that everything else was real, and that lucifer is somehow out of the cage again. although why he hasn't restarted the apocalypse yet is beyond me. just a theory, people.

[Anno_Domini]

If any part of the REAL Lucifer is out of the cage, it'll create just a huge plot hole because we haven't seen or heard anything of Jesse and his Anti-Christ powers.

[xrayvision]

he wouldn't have killed him right away. he is the master torturer. he enjoys playing with sam's head & wouldn't throw that all away in one fell swoop. and what xrayvision said is true, sam's imagination can't drive a car, but neither can a hallucination. so how did sam get to the warehouse where dean found him? that made me consider the possibility that lucifer is actually out of the cage again, and no longer just in sam's imagination. that's not to say he can't be both in different instances, further confusing sam as to which is real.

I think Lucifer is in his cage, but he has manifested himself within Sam's body or soul & has tapped into Sam's body to gain some power outside the cage. We know that Sam did not walk to the warehouse but was driven there in a van that was made to look like an Impala. They showed the van that Sam saw as the Impala.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

If any part of the REAL Lucifer is out of the cage, it'll create just a huge plot hole because we haven't seen or heard anything of Jesse and his Anti-Christ powers.

Like I said, I don't think he's physically out but has somehow binded himself with Sam's body or soul so that he has influence outside the cage.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

I just find it odd that Death as Powerful as he is...wouldn't have noticed that Lucifer hitched a ride....

I think Death is staying out of it. He only cared before because Lucifer performed that ritual to bind him to his servitude. I think Death is impartial to what happens & is letting fate/destiny/God's will take its course, most likely because he knows something is supposed to happen.

----- Added 40 Minutes later -----

That may be fine with the studio/producers/what not, but I think bringing in Mark has to do with more of the story itself.

Well, I agree and think the story is that Sam's perception of Lucifer is the image of Nick & not himself.

What would be so confusing? It would be as awesome as the conversation between regular Sam and Samifer seen in "Swan Song". Besides, it wouldn't confuse anyone who's well into the mythology of the show and it'll be as confusing as someone just watching "Repo Man" as his or hers first experience of this series with someone calling himself Lucifer showing up.

The reason why it worked in Swan Song was because Sam said yes to Lucifer, who had completely taken his body over. Here, Lucifer isn't in control of him but is in his mind or soul. And like I said, we the viewers & Sam himself are used to seeing Lucifer as Nick, not Sam. See Samifer again could mislead viewers into thinking that Lucifer is after Sam as his vessel again when they could be heading down a different path. I think having Mark Pellegrino portray him again was a great idea.

But something only attached to his soul can drive a car? That's still not enough relative explanation or even plausible.

Well, we've seen a lot of crazy things in the show. Back before Sam knew how to suppress his influence, it's possible he was able to use some of his archangel powers through Sam or even use some hidden power Sam (and all other humans have within their soul) to drive the car. I'm hoping it's the latter because that would mean that what Death told about finding info on the souls wasn't about what Castiel was doing with them.

Well even as a piece of imagination or something stuck inside Sam's head, he is Lucifer and he should know about pretty much everything about his children such as knowing that a demon wouldn't need to use tranquilizers.

But as a piece of imagination, he shouldn't be Lucifer. If he was just imagination, it would be Sam thinking on behalf of a non-existent Lucifer personality. I don't think that's what happening, nor do I think that would make sense. Sam is messed up, but I don't think the torture Lucifer performed was done to create a 2nd personality of himself in Sam's head. Though it's entirely possible. It would be interesting, but that would create plotholes with that car driving scene because both personalities would be active at the same time and it would mean that Sam would had to have driven the car & uphold both sides of that conversation. We've seen him having a conversation before like in Lucifer Rising, but he wasn't driving a car at that time, and the other party in his conversation in Lucifer Rising wasn't another personality but a hallucination induced by the demon blood.

And a lot of people who are insane would beg otherwise. They see things as much as Sam can see Lucifer. And they hear things as much as Sam hears Lucifer.

The difference is that Sam had already accepted that Lucifer wasn't real. So that would give him power to shut him out of his mind. And there was a while when we didn't see Lucifer showing up. But in this episode, Lucifer gained influence when Sam gave into him. If Lucifer was simply a hallucination or another personality who Sam deemed not to be real, then despite giving into Lucifer that one time, he would be able to shove him back to the depths of his mind. But that's not what happened. Instead Lucifer gained a stronger foothold. It's as if there was a rule that the longer Sam ignored, the less influence Lucifer would have and if Sam gave in, Lucifer would gain a foothold. By a rule, I mean a rule similar to the rules that said angels & demons need vessels to use their power on Earth (i.e. when they say "them's the rules") or how angels have to get their vessel to say yes before possessing them. So if there's a rule regarding whatever Lucifer is doing & how he gained a foothold at the end of Repo Man, then it would explain why Sam couldn't just bury Lucifer to the back of his mind again. If he was just a hallucination and Sam knew him to be just that, then I don't think he would have gained a foothold. But I think it's more than that.

Well, for one, Lucifer is growing in power in more ways than just Sam speaking to him. His scar has been fully healed, the only thing that doesn't make him crack is fully healed. That scar was Sam's alcohol or drugs so to speak; he's out of options so the wall comes crumbling down. He's just going through another mental state, which is why Dean takes him to a psych ward...it's all in his head. If it wasn't just in his head and actually a real piece of Lucifer, it'd be hard to imagine that Sam would still be alive. The Devil would have taken his toll on him as soon as the wall broke.

Dean taking Sam to an asylum could be an erroneaous move on his part as a result of an incorrect assumption that Lucifer is just a hallucination. Also, if I'm right and a piece of Lucifer is in Sam or he has bound himself to Sam somehow, it would be beneficial for the devil not to overwhelm him to the point where he dies. Because his ultimate plan would be to use Sam as his ticket out of the cage. If Sam dies, then he can kiss that goodbye. And we know that Sam had the full devil in him in Swan Song without dying, so being bound like this (if I'm right) would be a lot less taxing on his body, mind & soul. Sam was able to handle the full uncaged devil within him in Swan Song without dying or degrading like Nick did and what I'm suggesting would be a lot less of a Lucifer presence within him. But it would be enough to torture him and perhaps get Sam to do things Lucifer wants.