My finale thoughts on Lex in smallville

[the jester]

Getting away with killing Tess and being a free man to run and succeed in getting the president's seat doesn't sound like a villain getting what he deserves. .

But losing knowing Clarks secret is getting what he deserves and Lex always had a choice and he made it in the end with the scene with Clark. Killing Tess that was the finale straw he was the villain after doing that. After the scene with Clark ,Lex could have tried to work with Tess to help Clark but no he killed her and he said that he was saving her but really maybe he just wanted to be the last Luthor then lie about Tess' s death to try and get close to Clark and find the "real" killer who knows. but the fact is he killed her and that showes that Lex will always choose the dark path. Personally I like Lex born to be a supervillain angle cause it makes the first couple seasons cooler if he was deep down a bad person trying hard to be good. It is harder to be good because of all the sacrifices and trust, things Lex couldn't do which is why in Lexmas he choose money and power over happiness.I think Lex's quote in Hourglass sums him up the best "I don't want to do good things I want to do GREAT things" Lex will always rather be a great man then a good one which is why he'll aways be a villain. Heroes don't want to be great they want to do whats right and good.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Lex was already a villain. He killed a doctor in S6 and his own father in S7. Killing Tess was just one more person to the bodycount. And you seem to contradict yourself. First you say that Lex had a choice but then you seem to imply that he was born to be evil with no real chance of making a difference.

Lex's quote can be understood in many ways. Just because he's arrogant and ambitious doesn't mean he's evil. He got to be president and gave the press a hard time seven years after the mindwipe. We got no other showcases about him being evil really.

[the jester]

Isn't this contradicting? How can Lex be his comic book self if he doesn't remember it? And he really doesn't given Tess' dialogue and the effect of the flashbacks actually burning away. Having Lex be the villain without knowledge of his character arc is against Smallville's theme of nature versus nurture. It's as if Lex was born to be bad since he'll be evil whether he remembers his choices or not.

It's like what I said at the start the memories are not buring away it's more like Lex is absorbing them to fill in his personallity he becomes his choices in a way

----- Added 21 Minutes later -----

Lex was already a villain. He killed a doctor in S6 and his own father in S7. Killing Tess was just one more person to the bodycount. And you seem to contradict yourself. First you say that Lex had a choice but then you seem to imply that he was born to be evil with no real chance of making a difference.

Lex's quote can be understood in many ways. Just because he's arrogant and ambitious doesn't mean he's evil. He got to be president and gave the press a hard time seven years after the mindwipe. We got no other showcases about him being evil really.

Ok to be clear I feel Lex wasn't born evil but his destiny is to become the supervillain and the events in his life were going to push him to that but he would always have the choice to do the right thing. Lex choose to be the villain. and Lex being president in the end is all the proof of how evil he is. what i mean by that is as long as Lex sought power like being president his methods for getting that power will lead him down a dark path. That to me is the point of the 5th season for Lex when he wants something he'll do what ever it takes to get it. Wanting to be senator or getting Lana he did underhanded things to try and get them both. Yes Lex killed before Tess but like Clark said Lex had a second chance he didn't have to kill Tess but he did it anyway why cause at that point Lex finally excepted who he was throw in the neruotoxin he represses and absorbs all his memories and in away becomes his choices and becomes the true villain he was destined to be

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Given what Tess says wouldn't that be illogical? Watch the scene again. The effect used clearly shows that the memories are burning away one by one. And no, they don't burn to his mind...they evaporate.

But the show was all about the journey (so much so they didn't pay much attention to the end goal since it was handled so poorly). When you take that character insight away from the characters themselves the journey loses all meaning. Given that Lex isn't a slave to his past anymore post mindwipe we don't have any idea what decisions he'll make now. He might choose differently as we're shown by his presidency. It was left open ended which was the last thing the show should have done given that the writers knew how the show was going to end.

[the jester]

But being president was his destiny since season 1 and showing him as the president shows that he fullfilled his destiny. lets look back for in apocalypse we see that Lex still becomes a villain having never even known Clark. In smallville Clark kept Lex's dark side repressed and growing up with Lionel led Lex to want to be a good man to kind of rebel from Lionel. Take away the memories you take away one influence that drove Lex to want to be good and the other that repressed his bad side. If you think about the only thing that seperates smallville Lex and future Lex is the want to be good. and if you look at the journey for Clark and Lex in the end the moments leading to them becoming there future selves are very true to charcter. With Clark he had to take a moment to look back at his past and embrace it to truly be Superman. Clark at that time felt the best way to move forward was forgetting the past but he had to learn to accept his past and accept himself. Lex on the other hand always dwelled on his past so much so that it prevented him from moving forward. So in the end Lex took a moment looked back one last time and lost his past so he could move forward.They are like two sides of one coin. Believing that he kept his knowledge and personality when he sees Superman he will want to control that power and his quest to beat Superman will make him evil. What I really like is following the comics Lex will try and befriend Superman.Like in smallville seasons 1 thru 4. and when that won't work he'll try to control Superman like in season 7. After that he'll just try to destroy Clark like in Lazarus.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

If it's destiny then Clark will lose because that bit looked like Harmageddon had struck the Earth in S1. The bit in Apocalypse was just a scenario run by a computer. But even if that were to happen then the finale still got it wrong given that the world ended again. Lex should only become president IF PEOPLE LIKE CLARK AREN'T AROUND TO STOP HIM. Clark was so Lex shouldn't have become president. We've seen that happen two times and both times it was game over. The finale basically ruins three episodes making Lex becoming president either trivial or making Clark lose.

Making Lex lose his memories doesn't make him accept himself. It makes him a victim of circumstance. All those things you mention about Lex's brilliantly written past. It's gone. He starts from scratch again.

[the jester]

Ok the stuff from season 1 was a metaphor (A metaphor is a literary figure of speech that uses an image, story or tangible thing to represent a less tangible thing or some intangible quality or idea) for Lex's future it shows that to the outside world Lex is good and peacefull but he hides a dark nature. I mean we never did get Clark standing in a endless graveyard. Apocalypse shows that without Clark noone could stop Lex from reaching is goal of conquest. and If you believe he starts from scratch we know enough of Lex that history will just repeat itself and if you think the ending was years of development for nothing thats not true it took all his time in Smallville to get him where he's at the head of Luthorcorp/Lexcorp and now he is the only Luthor left. And it was his time in Smallville that taught are young hero what true evil can turn a person into.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

That's a rather precise metaphor: presidency = bad.

But the thing is we don't know. "The world before this moment won't exist to you". Lex is free of the Luthor influence that was at the heart of what made him who he is. If he becomes evil again it's because of the nurture he receives post-mindwipe. If it's in his nature then it's against the idea of Smallville. If you take away Clark's experiences and upbringing with the Kents he wouldn't have become Superman it's that simple and should apply to Lex as well.

Even if I'd buy your explanation that the journey made them who they are whether they have their memories about them or not wouldn't matter if the characters themselves don't know the reasons they are good or evil. In a show that was all about characters learning about themselves it's unacceptable.

[the jester]

but in blank they took away Clark's memories and he was still very Supermanish I feel Lex's personality leads him to be bad memories or not

[phoenixnz]

but in blank they took away Clark's memories and he was still very Supermanish I feel Lex's personality leads him to be bad memories or not

Exactly the point I was going to make. The thing is, Lex made a lot of bad choices in the beginning and it was not all Lionel, it's just who he is. I don't always buy the nature vs nurture argument. I personally feel biology does not dictate what a person will become. Neither does their upbringing. Otherwise how do you explain people who become bad or evil in spite of a good homelife, or the opposite? I think without his memories, Lex will still be the same.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

but in blank they took away Clark's memories and he was still very Supermanish I feel Lex's personality leads him to be bad memories or not

Only because Chloe was sheparding him. Without her Clark would have revealed his powers and be unwilling to go back to a life where he couldn't be himself. He had no bad memories of the past that warned him about the dangers of doing such a thing. Clark could have ended being dissected by Lex's doctors if Chloe hadn't warned him about Lex or he would have used the knowledge of the Kawatchi Caves to something evil. There wouldn't have been a Superman had Clark been alone and not retain his memories.

Now Lex faces that exact same road (we'll see how the comic book adresses this eventually but it still leaves a bad taste about the show). I can buy that he ends up being evil again but that's still not the SV-Lex Luthor imo.

[Dagenspear]

It doesn't really matter if Lex's personality remains intact, while his memories do not... by shear definition Lex not remembering why he is the way he is makes him different than the SMALLVILLE Lex, therefore less.

On a side note: They should've had a Superman/Lex scene at the finale in the style of classic Clark/Lex.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

Exactly the point I was going to make. The thing is, Lex made a lot of bad choices in the beginning and it was not all Lionel, it's just who he is. I don't always buy the nature vs nurture argument. I personally feel biology does not dictate what a person will become. Neither does their upbringing. Otherwise how do you explain people who become bad or evil in spite of a good homelife, or the opposite? I think without his memories, Lex will still be the same.

It's never JUST a generic "bad upbringing", it's a carefully detailed layout of events that makes someone who they are. And it is the same case with Lex. I posted this before...

Lex's abuse has never been JUST the reason why Lex became bad. There's so much more that shaped him. We're not talking about simple physical abuse (which I, myself, have been a victim to). It's mental, and emotional, (total absence of love). There's a specific formula to shape Lex into... well... Lex, much like with everyone. There's a perfect storm of elements here that create the perfect monster. So many tiny, almost, insignifigant variables, to anyone else, that make up the equation of Lex Luthor. And it's not just, "Lionel's abuse, Clark's lies, Helen's betrayal, Lana loving someone else." It's so much small stuff. Countless attempts on his life, a few coming from women he loved, or thought, or truly believed he loved. Lex losing his mother. His mother murdering his brother, practically in front of his eyes. Him taking on the guilt of his brothers death, snapping him into a psychotic break as a child. His father making him look crazy and then locking him up in a mental institution, where he then fried his brain just to save his own ass. Being picked on, pushed around, and beaten up. The trauma of the meteor shower. Watching his friend get hit by a truck, right in front of him, and the guilt of believing it was his fault. And then the emotional confusion of his father cleaning it up and him not facing the consequences. Morphing into this belief of money and power solving everything. For God sakes, even dreaming that if he went good and gave up his money and power that it would cost him the life of the woman he loved, or at least, believed he loved, which we all know was just Lex trying to recapture his mother's love. Then his mother telling him that he would become a monster, murderer. And let's not forget the final nails in the coffin of the monster. Him rebuilding his brother just so he can have someone to love him, and then having that brother reject him and spit on him, just like everyone else in his life had, which ends in him hiring someone to kill him. And then, finally, the consuming idea that his father, who had, just episodes before claimed to love him, had practically thrown his life to the wolves by taking him to the place that ruined his life and irrevocably damaged him, sacrificing him, his son, for some creature, some alien, called the Traveler, choosing that creature over him, and then not even telling him who he is, who this alien is that he gave him up for, and murdering him because of it.

Did your friend go through these things? I don't think so.

All of these events, and even more things I'm sure, shaped Lex. You can't compare Lex to some structured idea that abuse is all that Lex went through. Because it's not.

Lex isn't a psycho. I'm afraid it's a lot more complicated than that. Every single choice Lex ever has, and ever will make has, and will be, influenced by all of the things that I just said. So, no, no choice Lex makes is really ever his choice. Because his choices are influenced, much like all of ours, by his experiences.

Lex is warped beyond belief. Take a good listen to what he says to his hallucination kid-self, when he's asking how he could kill his father, and Lex yells, quite viciously, "I HAD NO CHOICE!" He truly believed that he didn't. He truly believed, because of all his insane paranoia, which has been caused by his father, and women that he loved trying to end him and his best friend lying to him, that now, he can trust no one, that killing his father was the only way to prevent him from being killed at the hands of his father and that not doing so would be weak, that now, all he can possibly hope to count on his paranoia, his money, and his power. This is very well echoed by clone kid Lex insisting that the man with the S on his chest, wants to, and is trying to, kill him.

[the jester]

Lex's destiny is to be Superman's number one villain so the events in his life will always push him to that and the more he denies it the stronger the pushes will be.With the memory loss the only things he has to fall back on is his core personality which is his want of control and power and his Luthor instincts. I'm not saying that being a Luthor makes you evil but all the Luthors do have deceptive traits and after Tess dies Lex will still have to cover her death up and it will mirror the first real bad thing Lex coved up his brothers death only this time he was the killer.


Originally Posted by Dagenspear
Lex's abuse has never been JUST the reason why Lex became bad. There's so much more that shaped him. We're not talking about simple physical abuse (which I, myself, have been a victim to). It's mental, and emotional, (total absence of love). There's a specific formula to shape Lex into... well... Lex, much like with everyone. There's a perfect storm of elements here that create the perfect monster. So many tiny, almost, insignifigant variables, to anyone else, that make up the equation of Lex Luthor. And it's not just, "Lionel's abuse, Clark's lies, Helen's betrayal, Lana loving someone else." It's so much small stuff. Countless attempts on his life, a few coming from women he loved, or thought, or truly believed he loved. Lex losing his mother. His mother murdering his brother, practically in front of his eyes. Him taking on the guilt of his brothers death, snapping him into a psychotic break as a child. His father making him look crazy and then locking him up in a mental institution, where he then fried his brain just to save his own ass. Being picked on, pushed around, and beaten up. The trauma of the meteor shower. Watching his friend get hit by a truck, right in front of him, and the guilt of believing it was his fault. And then the emotional confusion of his father cleaning it up and him not facing the consequences. Morphing into this belief of money and power solving everything. For God sakes, even dreaming that if he went good and gave up his money and power that it would cost him the life of the woman he loved, or at least, believed he loved, which we all know was just Lex trying to recapture his mother's love. Then his mother telling him that he would become a monster, murderer. And let's not forget the final nails in the coffin of the monster. Him rebuilding his brother just so he can have someone to love him, and then having that brother reject him and spit on him, just like everyone else in his life had, which ends in him hiring someone to kill him. And then, finally, the consuming idea that his father, who had, just episodes before claimed to love him, had practically thrown his life to the wolves by taking him to the place that ruined his life and irrevocably damaged him, sacrificing him, his son, for some creature, some alien, called the Traveler, choosing that creature over him, and then not even telling him who he is, who this alien is that he gave him up for, and murdering him because of it.

Did your friend go through these things? I don't think so.

All of these events, and even more things I'm sure, shaped Lex. You can't compare Lex to some structured idea that abuse is all that Lex went through. Because it's not.

Lex isn't a psycho. I'm afraid it's a lot more complicated than that. Every single choice Lex ever has, and ever will make has, and will be, influenced by all of the things that I just said. So, no, no choice Lex makes is really ever his choice. Because his choices are influenced, much like all of ours, by his experiences.

Lex is warped beyond belief. Take a good listen to what he says to his hallucination kid-self, when he's asking how he could kill his father, and Lex yells, quite viciously, "I HAD NO CHOICE!" He truly believed that he didn't. He truly believed, because of all his insane paranoia, which has been caused by his father, and women that he loved trying to end him and his best friend lying to him, that now, he can trust no one, that killing his father was the only way to prevent him from being killed at the hands of his father and that not doing so would be weak, that now, all he can possibly hope to count on his paranoia, his money, and his power. This is very well echoed by clone kid Lex insisting that the man with the S on his chest, wants to, and is trying to, kill him.

This was a perfect description of Lex well done and I believe this will always be who he is. I do disagree with you saying his memory loss makes him less with the loss of his memory he lost his desire to be a good person like what he had at the beginning of Smallville so it's like Lex unleashed

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Lex's destiny is to be Superman's number one villain so the events in his life will always push him to that and the more he denies it the stronger the pushes will be.With the memory loss the only things he has to fall back on is his core personality which is his want of control and power and his Luthor instincts. I'm not saying that being a Luthor makes you evil but all the Luthors do have deceptive traits and after Tess dies Lex will still have to cover her death up and it will mirror the first real bad thing Lex coved up his brothers death only this time he was the killer.

You keep saying it's Lex's destiny no matter how he tries to fight it. Like there's some predetermined path for him when Smallville's single goal was to show that the characters make choices along that path. Now Lex has no memory of the choices his made. He forged a new path after the mindwipe. Possibly covering up Tess' death but again that's a choice we didn't see made on the show.

[smallville84]

Lex may have lost his memories, but he his still the same guy that we seen him evolve into over the years. Much like Clark in Blank, he was still the same person. Lex only lost memories of who he is and who everyone else is. He didn't lose everything, it's not a blank slate things are still engraved in there. His choices he made during his life that made him who he is still matter.