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  • #61
    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    Damon Lindelof has nothing more to do with Once after the first episode, other than watching the show at home, probably
    As I've said before. I am well aware that HE personally is no longer involved with the show but his INFLUENCE is more then evident and that is enough.


    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    My stand on LOST? I think it's the greatest TV show ever made, actually. I disagree that the show turned to crap after Season 4. Season 5 is one of my favorite seasons of Television. Time Travel? Dharma Times? James and Juliet? For me, that's the BEST. And, I personally, felt like Season 6 was a great way to end the show, by going back to the beginning and told in a really cool way, using the FlashSideways.
    I don't want to go on a rambling spree and counter why each and every aspect of the show you've just listed as great felt short and pointless, so I'll just say that not one of them was even remotely satisfactory for me. Sawyer and Juliet, really? Those two were worse then Chloe and Oliver insta romance in Smallville and more creepy, with Juliet sending mother vibes.

    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    I know some (I've found that it's the minority opinion, truly, because most LOST fans I know and have encountered loved the ending and still love the show) people find the series finale dumb, cheesy, or predictable, but the thing I loved about it was a) it was set up for most of the show and b) written really well all of Season 6 to get there. Re-watching the series gives me a whole new appreciation for that finale. It stayed true to the characters and the themes of the show. It's a complete story that is such a great example of the monomyth.
    Well then, I seem to hang around in completely different social circles, because not a single one of my friends thought that Lost finale was any good. I don't know how everyone felt online, though I do remember reading on some media site that the internet chatter after the finale aired was 70% negative. That says a lot.

    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    The deaths moved characters forward and gave inspiration to the people who were left on The Island and in the end (or even "The End"), the most important thing, really, was not that they died, but what happened in their lives (specifically, their time on The Island).
    Characters had become caricatures of themselves in season 5 and 6. What was the point in turning Sayid soulless, then not again and then killing him like a suicide bomber? What was the point of making Claire an insane MURDERER, then all sweet and innocent in the last moment? What was the point of killing Juliet because of her jealousy towards Kate, if it turned out Sawyer didn't want Kate, even though they leave the island together and are alive in the end? What was the lesson of it all? It doesn't matter what you do in life because there is a shiny purgatory waiting for you in the end, or whatever?! What was the island? A place where miracles happen? Pathetic, considering to most of them it brought nothing but pain, misery and ultimately death.

    You don't have to answer, I know there was no lesson, no meaning of actual substance.



    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    Most TV shows will lose people over the years. It's not unusual to see viewers give up shows. It happens, especially, with serialized stories. It wasn't unusual with LOST.
    When you go from 20 million to 8 million it says something.



    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    We don't know that they won't. The LOST showrunners went to ABC with the desire to the set the end date and the ABC folks agreed to it. Who is to say that if Once gets renewed for a Season 2 or even a Season 3, they won't consider doing that as well?
    It won't change a thing if they do set an End Date, because if they follow the footsteps of Lost they'll be canceled before season 3 or 2.



    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    Regina is shown to be just as evil as her fairy tale counterpart in the fact that she's willing to take lives. We had seen her be a crappy mother and a terrible human being, but to see her squeeze that heart and kill Graham? That put her on a whole other level. We've discovered her little secret lair with her Vault O'Hearts, which is 100% confirmation that she remembers and still has some form of magic in Storybrooke. We've gotten to see a character remember their fairy tale existence so now, we can definitely see that it's possible for the rest of them. We've now seen Henry get confirmation that he's right in his theory.
    For me all that was more then obvious before episode 7 and they were as blunt about it as they could. Confirmation was welcome to a point, but there were much better ways to do it.


    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    NOT killing Graham would have kept the show stagnant. Killing him set more things in motion than keeping him around.
    I'm willing to bet that nothing more than Emma taking over as Sheriff after some riff raff will happen in the next few episodes. Things seemed to have been set in motion, but with Graham not telling anything important about the Queen and Fairyland to Emma, nothing actually moved the story forward. As I said, his death would have been more appropriate towards the end of the season where it could propel Emma for the final confrontation. I completely disagree that because of this small holiday hiatus the time was right now. It wasn't and because it is only episode 7, I am more than sure that not much will happen between Emma and Queen to sufficiantly justify it. They could have done it, but then they should have never made Emma his romantic interest.
    Now they will have an enormous task to convince audience that Emma could soon care about another man, who ain't her son.


    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    Having sat through all of FlashForward and having tried to watch The Event, Once Upon A Time is so refreshing in that things are actually happening, we're getting answers, and new questions to ask and things are going forward in stand of being vague and making it seem like they don't know what they're doing (which is how I felt about FlashForward and The Event).
    Things are happening, but that doesn't mean that the plot is moving forward.


    Originally posted by savingpeoplething
    I agree that Kitsis/Horowitz don't have a problem killing characters, but I am pretty sure Charming and Snow are safe. They never killed Kate Austen (until whenever she died post-Island) and they only killed Jack Shephard in the finale episode after he had accomplished what he set out to do. Charming and Snow are two of their big leads and their main romance just like Jack and Kate, so it's super doubtful that they would treat them any differently.
    Locke...

    You are comparing Jack and Kate to Snow and Charming, please don't. I couldn't stand Kate and I would never characterize their relationship even as a romance, God forbid to compare them to icons like Snow and Charming. They were more of an example where you learn how not to communicate with a person you supposedly care about.

    Anyway, maybe Graham's death boosts the ratings when the show returns, but in the long run, the way they did it, I think it will do them more harm then good.


    Some reviews that put my thoughts to words more accurately:
    One of my favorite new shows just broke everyone’s heart. ONCE UPON A TIME is premised on the idea that Emma Swan is the key to breaking the Evil Queen’s curse and that she will bring back the “happy endings.” But if this most recent episode is any indication, the curse is still alive and


    comparison to Lost:
    In the after-math of LOST, an interesting trend has begun to emerge in television viewing patterns: viewers are now gun-shy of investing in serialized television. Viewers are no longer willing to invest their time and energy into a show that may take them some place they do not want to go. For LOST not
    Last edited by CKent/KalEl; 12-16-2011, 08:07 AM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Penca
      Too much drama for a secondary character death

      Sugar, this show is about fairy tales, yes, but Snow White is the main story.
      So Charming and Snow romance is the romance.
      Graham and Emma had....2 lines in every episode? No more.

      Ok, some people liked Graham, but seriously, TOO MUCH DRAMA. He was the huntsman, not the Prince, or Henry, or Emma, or Snow....He didn´t have more story to tell.
      Huh...snow white is not the main story. IMO it's Emma. Snow and Charming already had their story when they meet , now it's Emma's turn. All the fairy tale characters have had their story. I disagree. Snow and Charming is NOT the romance. The do have a storyline...but basically they've already been married and have a child together. They've already had their romance... This is about their child Emma coming to save everyone. And hopefully her getting her true love.

      ----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

      Originally posted by savingpeoplething
      Charming and Snow are two of their big leads and their main romance just like Jack and Kate, so it's super doubtful that they would treat them any differently.
      No their not, I never saw it that way. That's who I saw Emma and Graham as. Charming and Snow already had their meet and marriage. This is Emma's story now.

      ----- Added 9 Minutes later -----

      Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
      Some reviews that put my thoughts to words more accurately:
      One of my favorite new shows just broke everyone’s heart. ONCE UPON A TIME is premised on the idea that Emma Swan is the key to breaking the Evil Queen’s curse and that she will bring back the “happy endings.” But if this most recent episode is any indication, the curse is still alive and

      Quote from one of the reviews:

      If recent ratings are any indication, viewers have already become disenchanted. They were promised a story where happy-endings would become real again, but instead have suffered from a bait-and-switch: ONCE UPON A TIME is not giving us the “happy endings” we were hoping for.
      What was the point of introducing a character – a hero – that we could root for in both the real-world and the fairytale-world, and one which Emma could fall in love with, only to have him snatched away so suddenly?
      Exactly how I feel!
      Last edited by Sugar; 12-16-2011, 08:37 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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      • #63
        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        Sawyer and Juliet, really?
        They're one of two (the other being Desmond and Penny) most celebrated couples on LOST, so...yeah, really.

        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        Well then, I seem to hang around in completely different social circles
        While I'm sure that we probably do, I've discussed the show with and read reactions from people on Twitter, Tumblr, LiveJournal, and other blogs, listened to podcasts, and have had discussions with people (folks I didn't even know, but had a commonality with because of LOST) at Dragon*Con about it. I'm not just talking about my close personal friends, but fans, in general. While there is this assumption that most of the response was negative by people who may have quit the show and come back for the end or people who wanted to end another way, it's my belief because of conversations I've had with people that most of the fans that stuck with the show were pleased with its outcome.

        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        You don't have to answer, I know there was no lesson, no meaning of actual substance.
        Personally, I learned a lot of lessons (about relationships and faith in particular) because of LOST and feel like I'm a better person for having watched it.

        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        When you go from 20 million to 8 million it says something.
        I don't have the time at the moment to do an average of Season 6's ratings, but it hit lows of 8 million and a high of 14, with about 13 million watching the end. To have as many as they did continue to watch for 6 seasons (with the final season premiering around 14 million and ending at 13), despite (for several seasons) having to wait 8 months for a serialized story? That's pretty impressive. Some people now don't come back after a two week hiatus.

        And, even then, LOST performed really well in the demo and that matters more to networks and advertisers than actual numbers of viewers.

        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        For me all that was more then obvious before episode 7
        Oh, I agree. I was confident that Regina remembered when she went and found Kathryn and was confirmed for me when she found the shard of Snow's glass coffin, but for a lot of people, there were still questions.

        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        his death would have been more appropriate towards the end of the season where it could propel Emma for the final confrontation.
        Why would it have better to wait until the end of the season to kill him? That would have been the opposite of progress because then you'd be dragging that out for another 15 episodes. There would be no forward motion for Emma and things would have been the same ole same ole in every episode until then. And, then if you waited until the finale for your big shocking death, then it becomes just that. A BIG SHOCKING DEATH TO BE A SHOCKING SHOCKER. This way, you have a meaningful death that actually does something and was unpredictable versus placing a death in a season finale (because you know, nobody ever does that).

        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        I am more than sure that not much will happen between Emma and Queen to sufficiantly justify it.
        I guess we'll have to disagree and wait to see what happens when the show comes back, but based on the preview, there appears to be a power control conflict between Emma and Regina and for me, to see the heroine and the villain go head-to-head like that will be tons of fun. Who knows? Maybe Emma's step up as potential sheriff causes problems for Regina because Regina might start to lose a little control over her town. Maybe with Emma as sheriff, people fear Regina less and less. That to me would be progress.

        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        You are comparing Jack and Kate to Snow and Charming, please don't.
        I had times when I couldn't stand Jack and Kate, either, but that doesn't mean that they aren't the same archetypes of hero/heroine of the show who are the main romance of the story.

        Originally posted by CKent/KalEl
        maybe Graham's death boosts the ratings when the show returns, but in the long run, the way they did it, I think it will do them more harm then good.
        It could go either way. It'll be interesting to see what happens, but I, for one, am glad this show has writers who are willing to take some chances. I'd rather they do that than be afraid to do something that will impact their story and propel it forward.

        Originally posted by Sugar
        Huh...snow white is not the main story. IMO it's Emma. Snow and Charming already had their story when they meet , now it's Emma's turn. All the fairy tale characters have had their story. I disagree. Snow and Charming is NOT the romance. The do have a storyline...but basically they've already been married and have a child together. They've already had their romance... This is about their child Emma coming to save everyone. And hopefully her getting her true love.
        Snow and Charming are THE romance of the show. They may have already met, fallen in love, gotten married, and had a child, but at this point, neither of them know that. The story they are telling in Storybrooke is of them falling in love again.

        And, to be honest, Emma's story so far has never been about getting her true love. It's been about finding her parents and re-connecting with and trying to protect her son.

        I think, eventually, Emma will have a Happy Ending that could involve a romance, but that's never been the driving force of her character. Even with Graham, her relationship with him, in my opinion, was more about helping her realize that she could open up her heart to someone. Maybe she was in love with him or maybe she just wanted to try to have feelings for someone because before, in relationships, she had closed herself off. Even her connection with Graham was more about how she owed him her life (by not killing her mother) than it was about true love.
        Last edited by savingpeoplething; 12-16-2011, 03:25 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by savingpeoplething
          Snow and Charming are THE romance of the show. They may have already met, fallen in love, gotten married, and had a child, but at this point, neither of them know that. The story they are telling in Storybrooke is of them falling in love again.

          .
          that's your opinion. I don't see it that way. they are already together...maybe not now....but they are. it's already done. it's just a back story. Kinda like the show How I met your mother...the main guy Ted (Emma for Once) is telling the story how he met his wife...that's the show. But it does include the romances and lives of the side characters. Emma is the main character for Once...how she is there to discover who she is and save everyone...etc. etc. As we watch we also see the other characters lives and romances as well. But the main romance and storyline is for the main character of Emma.

          And when the show was advertising the show they weren't advertising as Snow White's show...they were saying it's about a woman who goes to a town and finds out it's full of fairy tale characters...something like that. So the main romance should be Emma's. Doesn't mean the show should have her in some grand romance right way...but usually they show who she is meant to be with...and then drag out the will they or won't they as we discover more about them with a little drama thrown in. Snow's romance is there to have a little romance until it's Emma's time.
          Last edited by Sugar; 12-16-2011, 12:10 PM.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Sugar
            that's your opinion.
            Well, that is very true, but I'm also basing it on what the show has done with Snow and Charming and the push and pull of their relationship. The show makes a big deal of it from the Pilot to an entire episode showing how they met to how they are separated in Storybrooke.

            Originally posted by Sugar
            Emma is the main character for Once...how she is there to discover who she is and save everyone...etc. etc. As we watch we also see the other characters lives and romances as well. But the main romance and storyline is for the main character of Emma.
            Maybe on down the road, but not for the first seven episodes, in my opinion. Her feelings for Graham played their part, but I don't know that that relationship was THE main one.

            Originally posted by Sugar
            Snow's romance is there to have a little romance until it's Emma's time.
            I can agree with that to an extent. I think right now, the main romantic focus is on Snow and Charming's relationship and that later on, we'll get a big romantic story for Emma. But, I think Snow and Charming's relationship will always play a big part in the story because they are Emma's parents. Their love story is important to the protagonist.

            Maybe we should start creating specific threads to discuss these topics? We may be starting to veer off of episode 7's content.
            Last edited by savingpeoplething; 12-16-2011, 03:16 PM.

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            • #66
              just watched on abc.com. AMAZING episode! made me fall absolutely in love with Graham only to take him away from me in the last minute Before this episode i'd say Graham was barely present. not interesting at all. but to see him discover his backstory and BELIEVE it was really compelling. and i loved the character of a sensitive huntsman. and to FINALLY see someone believe henry! i didn't want it to end. every episode i've been waiting for someone to wake up and be on henry's side and when it finally happens of course they go and kill him off... ridiculous! but even that doesn't take away from the awesomeness that was this episode. it added to the drama. i gasped like you wouldn't believe when she squeezed his heart. so this episode definitely gets a 10 from me.

              aside: did graham always have that irish accent? first time i heard it. maybe cuz he didn't do all that much talking in the previous episodes.

              also: what was up with Mr. Gold in the forest? that was such obvious suspicious behavior. i'll excuse Graham cuz he was kinda out of it and wrapped up in his own stuff but gardening? really? in the middle of a forest? don't think so.

              Comment


              • #67
                Interesting posts
                I agree with this
                Snow and Charming are THE romance of the show. They may have already met, fallen in love, gotten married, and had a child, but at this point, neither of them know that. The story they are telling in Storybrooke is of them falling in love again.

                And, to be honest, Emma's story so far has never been about getting her true love. It's been about finding her parents and re-connecting with and trying to protect her son.
                YES

                I don´t want a romance for Emma. I wanna see her relationship with Henry, her parents, Regina.
                The love story is Snow and Charming. I don´t need more romances.
                Last edited by Penca; 12-16-2011, 07:57 PM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by savingpeoplething

                  My stand on LOST? I think it's the greatest TV show ever made, actually. I disagree that the show turned to crap after Season 4. Season 5 is one of my favorite seasons of Television. Time Travel? Dharma Times? James and Juliet? For me, that's the BEST. And, I personally, felt like Season 6 was a great way to end the show, by going back to the beginning and told in a really cool way, using the FlashSideways.
                  I loved Lost though the last season was a bit of a disappointment, especially the revelation of the Flash Sideways, the treatment (or lack thereof) of Desmond and the endless back and forth between Jack/Kate/Sawyer. Still, it was awesome for most of its run and having that influence OUAT is not a bad thing at all. IMO.

                  Originally posted by savingpeoplething
                  We don't know that they won't. The LOST showrunners went to ABC with the desire to the set the end date and the ABC folks agreed to it. Who is to say that if Once gets renewed for a Season 2 or even a Season 3, they won't consider doing that as well?
                  Should they set an end date though? I wouldn't mind the story evolving past the curse scenario when the "battle begins" as Rumple put it. C'mon, the show has just begun; let's not think about it ending yet.


                  Originally posted by savingpeoplething
                  I agree that Kitsis/Horowitz don't have a problem killing characters, but I am pretty sure Charming and Snow are safe.
                  Agreed. I think those two are safe at least for the time being. I think it's possible they might be killed off in the final battle whatever that is, but that's a long way off.

                  Originally posted by savingpeoplething

                  I'm of the belief that Storybrooke was built by the curse to replace Fairy Tale Land. Snow White's coffin is buried underneath, which was in the Enchanted Forest. Regina's father's burial site is probably the same as the one from Fairy Tale Land (she even had the same epitaph written on it, "beloved father").
                  You know, I wonder how big Storybrooke really is. Earlier they gave the impression that it's not a big town but it kind of has to be to accommodate all of fairy tale land. Especially when you consider [SPOILER]that Aladdin has been referenced and they want to introduce him on the show which means the Enchanted Forest is not all there is of fairy tale land; there's also Agrabah, a middle-eastern kingdom. [/SPOILER]


                  Originally posted by savingpeoplething
                  They're one of two (the other being Desmond and Penny) most celebrated couples on LOST, so...yeah, really.
                  I got annoyed with Kate and her back and forth "romance" with Sawyer/Jack. Now Desmond and Penny were awesome which is why I hated how they left that story (in the real world) hanging in the finale.

                  Originally posted by Sugar
                  Huh...snow white is not the main story. IMO it's Emma.
                  The Snow White tale is clearly the central mythos of the story. The show has been built around it. Sure maybe some day it may evolve beyond it but as it stands, it's about the Snow White tale. Yes Emma and Henry are the protagonists but the actual story that they are living in is a continuation of the Snow White tale with everyone else caught in the crossfire.

                  As for main leads, I'd argue that the show's main leads are Emma and Henry (and Regina).

                  Originally posted by savingpeoplething

                  And, to be honest, Emma's story so far has never been about getting her true love. It's been about finding her parents and re-connecting with and trying to protect her son.
                  Exactly. The focus is (and should be) on the mother-son bonding and reconnecting with her parents. I love that the lead characters' story isn't all about some epic romance for a change. It's the mother-son relationship that had me most interested. It's different. Unlike say Grimm which is basically just another cop show and I'm tired of those.
                  Last edited by Exedore; 12-16-2011, 10:44 PM.

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                  • #69
                    I gave it a 9 because they killed off Graham. I was beginning to like his character in this episode and then he ends up dying right at the end of it. Lame. =(

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                    • #70
                      I voted 10 -- even though Sheriff Graham is no more on the show, it was still an awesome episode. And for his last appearance on the show, he really gave it his all. I'm counting down the days until Once comes back, because I know, it is going to be even more awesome from here on out.

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                      • #71
                        I thought this episode wasn't bad but I really hope that the Huntsman isn't toast quite yet..... also don't get Rumple's role yet and fear they are overextending that character greatly.....

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                        • #72
                          This is my favorite episode so far! I gave it a 10!

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                          • #73
                            Just to comment on Graham's death; I thought it was really well-done. I liked that there were actual stakes, he wasn't just a red-shirt. He was a love-interest for Emma, he was the town's sherriff, and he was around long enough and was fleshed out enough that I cared about him. I was actually quite shocked and heart-broken when he died, I didn't think that would happen at all. I think Graham served the show really well. I'm sad that he's gone and a wee-bit hopeful that somehow he'll be brought back, but if he isn't, I still think the show made use of his character really well.

                            Also, I haven't been paying attention to spoilers for this show. I wonder, if I had treated Smallville the same way, if I would've been more affected by some of the shockers on that show.

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